Enough with Panther Bashing...

themagicoen

Expert Expediter
Alright, I've read enough post latley from ex-con-way drivers thinking Panther is such a bad place. Panther is where its at because it's one of the best. The reason is bought Con-Way I think was to get in on the west-coast, as that was a slow area to mature for them. Now a driver that gets sent that way doesn't have to sit. Yes, now panther has 1600+ trucks but don't forget they got all the customers of Con-way so nothing has changed, more trucks - more loads. I'll add lastly, I've read a few people saying "Fleet owners get 1.35/mile and we get shafted". Now, this is true, IF you have 3 + trucks, BUT if you take the higher rate - YOU pay for Trip Pak, more for insurance, more for Q.C., more for evreything. If you as single owner took that you would loose a lot of money. The only way you get screwed at Panther is if YOU let them, don't take the sub rate loads in a high service area, knowledge is a powerful thing - know where you stand, if your in say Cleveland area - 8 loads a day, and your the only team there, they send you a load offer - pu 3 hours, 450 loaded miles, delivers in 2 days, and only pays $1.10/mile with .10 f/s. Tell them no and give demands, I'll take is for 1.20/mile + layover(or ask for direct deliver), etc. If it's a good customer they'll give you what you want, if not your still 1st and your still in a very good area. So for anyone who thinks Panther is a bad idea, give a try before you open your mouth and bash it. Also, have fun!
 

panther_art

Expert Expediter
Thanks for starting this post, because I also was getting tried of all the junk thats being said.

All you owners that chose not to come over to Panther good we don't want you on are team anyway.

And all of you that think that Panther went after Conway you are wrong Conway brought the package to Panther and come up with the best deal that they could to make sure that no one was left out.

Two years ago I would had agreed with all of you about how bad Panther was but that not the way it is anymore.

I own one van and my loaded miles when I stay out avgs. 2500 miles a week. But then I don't set in dead areas waiting for loads either.

Panther Art
 

kwexpress

Veteran Expediter
KW Express
o/o till i die

panther is where it is because why?

I gues I dont know the new panther maybe its changed

in 1997 they paid cargo vans a flat rate of .90
the new panther pays them what?

the panther I contracted with paid all d-units 1.35 even with 1 truck
the new panther pays 1 truck operators what?

and this was when fuel cost .95 per gallon'

in your post it says if you let them.
why dont they keep the drivers best interest in mind and not try to screw them to begin with?

all they care about is rolling numbers the more numbers they roll up the bigger fat cats bonus.

you know I dont care if they have 10 parties a year.they got there by not owning anything. very little investment but a huge amount of debt.How did that happen?

if panther wanted to turn the industry around then they should pay off the debt and raise the amount of pay to the contractor and fat cat needs to stop taking a bonus till this is done.

I can get on getloaded.com and get more than 2.00 per mile for cheap ltl runs of less than 200 miles.how is expedite with them any better?

as far as the con-way freight do you really think the shippers who used con-way used them exclusive or was con-way just 1 of many carriers used by them?

paying money for a list sounds like tele-marketing to me.I can hire a tele-marketer for 6.00 per hour explain the benefits of working for them to me.and just cause they got the list doesnt mean the ones on that list will use them.
 

themagicoen

Expert Expediter
The thing about pay it's not panther specific, a lot of carriers haven't raised pay in years - an o/o driving an E unit, 1990 .90/mile, today .85/mile. This argument can go on between what Panther was, what it is today and where its going... All expidte companies have issues, thats fact. Choose the one that best fits you. Panther has came a long way with the help of its contractor and it has returned in pushing most customers to actual miles and higher fuel/surcharges + more loads, less sitting. They may have reduced pay rates but thier cost have gone up also don't forget...
 

NoProblem

Expert Expediter
themagicoen,

I think it absolutely awesome to be so happy with your carrier that you post their praises! Kudos to you - and as a driver, I really am happy that you think so highly of P2!!! Absolutely awesome!!!!!

Please, in case I sound like I am insulting you - or Panther - that is as far from my intention as it could be so please - again PLEASE - do not take this post as an insult or belittlement to you or P2............ as a small Tier One Carrier to over 300 customers, I would merely like to give a different point of view. So again - take this for what it’s worth - from a small carrier.

For your information - this post is all about - "who gets the loadâ€.

It is “He who can get to the pick-up first,†often (but not always) wins that particular load. As such, obviously, the odds will be in favor of any carrier who has 2k available trucks scattered throughout the country - it is based upon the “ship in every port†scenario that a very wise and honest poster once enlightened the on-line community about.

FYI, P2 now (at this present time) has approx. 2 trucks for every available load offer that there is out there............as things get busier - or slower - for P2 and their drivers, that figure will change.

Since they bought ConWay, hopefully (note I said “hopefullyâ€) that figure may have changed too - 2 load offers per available truck - either way, more “ships in every port†assures P2 more loads - but it does not absolutely insure that P2s trucks will all have more loads.

In fact, when things are busy, there may well be less loads per truck thanks to P2 consistently adding trucks all the time - and when things get slow, it will absolutely mean P2 trucks will be sitting more - or happily accepting loads for back haul rates or worse........but that’s a whole ‘nother topic.

We have always offered a higher fsc than our customers paid - and have never even offered such a thing as a “back haul rate†- no matter where our teams were, and though we often run into and out of Ca, Nm, Az, Wy, Co, Ut, etc. etc. but we are certainly going to start offering “back haul rates†to our O/Os - thanks to the new “industry average rates†that P2 has established.

So I am with you - P2 really can only help the expedited trucking industry be even more profitable!
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Steve, if I understand you correctly, you're saying (in a sarcastic way) that Panther can make or break the industry. The same way JB and Schneider broke the trucking industry, Panther can do the same, if they so wish. Do you think Panther will undercut their competition into non-existance if they can? Hard to say. It's easier to do that than boast excellence and customer satisfaction, as FXCC does. But, if they choose to do so, they'll turn expediting into another .85/mile freight industry.
 

Axis714

Expert Expediter
KW mentions a rate of 90 cpm for a van driver in 97... I assure you the last van I drove at p2 was leased @ 1$ a mile and we got paid layover almost every wknd and detention like clockwork and as KW said, fuel was a buck a gallon then.
I havent seen a change in company policy benefit a driver not 1 time in my experience. Being a 4 time vet of the P2 orientation is comical sometimes as I show other drivers the handbook changes over the years. Oh well, I guess if this industry needs a JB they might as well be it.
 

dieselphreak2K

Expert Expediter
All I'm gonna say is, 5 months ago, I started at P2 driving someone else's B unit. I'm looking at purchasing my second D unit truck next month. It's a great company, and there is money to be made.
 

NoProblem

Expert Expediter
I think Panther has definitely positioned themselves to make lots of money. I’ll take a “wait and see†attitude - and hope that translates to all of their O/Os as well.

I think they are in a position to help sway the rates to go either way, but I can’t imagine them undercutting their competition into non-existence - and certainly not without their O/Os cooperation.

I am only basing my opinion (we all know what opinions are like) on available load offers that I see every day from our broad customer base that offer loads to us. I am sure that Panther has access to more load offers than we do, but I assume that means they only receive a few hundred additional load offers than we do.

If my assumptions are correct, the ratio of loads/trucks absolutely favors P2, but it does not favor the majority of P2's trucks. Supply and demand will dictate whether or not P2s fleet cashes in with P2 - I hope they do!

OTOH, if my assumptions are wrong, and they are seeing 10k load offers every day, that ratio becomes a bit more O/O friendly because demand is high. When demand is high, rates should follow and trucks will be rolling at a profit for evey run.

I just know that SWIFT is the biggest truckload carrier in the USA with over 20,000 trucks - but their drivers are lucky to make .28/mi and their O/O teams are lucky to make .78/mi - and that it didn't happen over night - it took a few years.

Again, take it for what it's worth, it's just my .02
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Years ago, when I was working as an auto mechanic, stores like Rapid Oil change and Tires Plus were just beginning to appear. Long-time neighborhood gas station owners complained bitterly that the big boys were moving in and taking the gravy oil change and TBA (tires and battery) business.

That did not affect me. I was a mechanic with a good reputation and my own tools. Work was easy to find and customers would follow me if I changed shops.

Years later, I worked as a securities broker and financial planner. When I first started there were 750 mutual funds available for sale. Today there are easily 10 times that amount and probably a lot more. When I started, all trades were made at 8.5% commission. No-load funds were mostly unknown.

Then along came Charles Schwab discount brokerage, Fidelity investments, T. Rowe Price, and a host of others. Long-time brokers complained bitterly that the big boys were moving in and taking the gravy trades away from the "real" brokers who were somehow entitled to their commissions.

That did not affect me. My client base continued to grow. I changed the compensation arrangemnt from fully-disclosed commissions to fee-based services and/or a blend of commissions and fees. I could do that because I provided the value-added services my clients wanted.

Today, as an expediter, I hear talk of small companies getting bigger, competition driving down the cost of freight, established companies losing ground to upstarts or other competitors, etc.

That does not affect me. Diane and I drive a highly-specialized truck. The truck and its drivers are equipped and qualified to provide a number of value-added that certain shippers seek. These shippers are willing to pay top dollar for our expedited freight transport services.

In auto mechanics, I did not do oil changes for 29.95. I did lube-service specials for $50 that included a number of inspections and services over and above the oil changes. Often, the inspections would lead to more work and the satisfied customers would produce referrals.

In the financial services industry, I did not compete with every other entry-level schmuck who hawked low-load funds. I offered value-added services for which people who wanted those services were willing to pay top dollar.

In trucking, I do not compete with truckers who grab cheap freight off load boards and can't afford new tires after three years of running. Instead, Diane and I have configured ourselves and our truck to provide expediting services. We don't serve cheap-freight shippers. We serve shippers who have the need to either move freight very fast or very carefully.

If you read the service menus of FedEx White Glove, Panther Elite Services, UPS expedited, and others, you will find they all read the same.

That is good news for expediters and especially the value-added expediters. While a number of carriers are keen to sell the top-dollar expediting services, few of them have the trucks and drivers to provide them. Thus, when a sale is made, the loads are brokered out if the carrier cannot handle them.

Diane and I have done a number of pick ups from UPS terminals, moving company trade show specialty terminals, etc. We have rescued freight for customers, plucking it out of LTL company systems like Yellow. We have had customers book our truck for two days once they met us and saw what we could do.

It does not matter who sells the services Diane and I offer. There is enough business out there to keep us busy. We have what certain shippers and consignees want. That is what will keep us financially healthy and happy in the years ahead; no matter what company is number one, who buys whom, or who happens to take the gravy runs by introducing a new concept.

For one-truck owner/operators, it's not about what 99.9% of the rest of the transportation industry is doing. It's about carving out a teeny-tiny slice of the market for yourself and laughing all the way to the bank.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
If you think FXCC doesn't have to worry about what's happening to their competition, you're sadly mistaken. Until you leave FXCC, you are beholden to them and what changes they decide to make in policies and rates.

One of two things could happen with FXCC, as I see it, if Panther undercut their competition and lowered rates on their contractors. One, enough FXCC customers would make their way to Panther, and FXCC would end up following suit with a rate cut. Two, enough contractors would leave Panther for FXCC, citing fewer miles but more pay evening out.

You're right that FXCC fills a niche few others do. But the basics still apply to all involved... get freight from A to B at warp 9. When the economy turns south, companies will start shopping for better values. And what's been proven many times before is that expediting is the first thing to suffer. Personally, I plan on leaving expediting rather than selling my trucking soul for cheap freight. I refuse to eat beanie-weenies for dinner.
 

The Gibster

Expert Expediter
Great post, Phil. Anyone that has had anything to do with sales in any way has somewhere along the line heard 'If you're selling on price, someone is always going to out bid you, you're going to lose your customer'. You have to sell the value and benefits, and not be scared to ask for what it's worth.


The Gibster
 

kwexpress

Veteran Expediter
KW Express
o/o till i die


eat more beans it smells better than cheap freight and puts more fuel in your tank.
 

bryan

Veteran Expediter
Hi

Am I missing something?I don't see where anybody is bashing P2.I've seen some questions and some statements about previous experiences.

I think the problem is each of us feel that we have made the right decision.My choice of truck is the best choice,my choice of carrier is the best,and my laptop is the best.WHY? Because I choose it.But just because its good for me doesn't mean it's best for everybody.

P2 has it's problems just like everybody else.I have yet to see anybody with their company walk on water.If someone did I'm sure somebody would be offended.So make your own decisions, live with those decisions and when you can't live with anymore move on gracefully.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Gib, Phil would be right in his case if HE was in business for himself. Regardless of what everyone says on here about being a businessman first, unless you're running independantly, we're under someone else's rules. We, as drivers and o/os don't have a thing to say about rates, whether our company is going to raise, lower, institute an fsc, etc. Yes, we may complain, but other than that we have no power other than finding a different company to run for.

Phil wrote: "Today, as an expediter, I hear talk of small companies getting bigger, competition driving down the cost of freight, established companies losing ground to upstarts or other competitors, etc."

"That does not affect me. Diane and I drive a highly-specialized truck. The truck and its drivers are equipped and qualified to provide a number of value-added that certain shippers seek. These shippers are willing to pay top dollar for our expedited freight transport services."

To me, that is a conceded view of expediting. I sure hope he paid cash for his ego-mobile, cause it's not a matter of if freight dries up, but when. And he's not the only kid on the block with a far-out toy that can carry what his can.
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
Phil,

I must whole heartedly agree with you about value added service. A carrier may or may not be service conscious, but we can be. There will always be the companies big or small, that try and just undercut a price. I choose to associate myself with those who understand the value of what I do for them.

I am not opposed to the idea of smaller companies that broker out freight, because the big ones do as well. The key is to develop a relationship with some smaller reginal carriers and O/O's with whom you can share a common culture. That way, you can continue to offer the same service to your customers, no matter if it is your own truck picking up, or a smaller carrier working with you.


Drive Safe!

Jeff
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Maybe I am looking at things differently, Phil I think that you need to reevaluate your statement. I mean that you are in competition with anyone out there that hauls freight, this is reality the nature of business to have people seek out better relationships with vendors who can provide a service cheaper. FedEx is only as good as the customers shipments, as is everyone else and you and I are at the mercy of the customer who makes the decision to want a peice of freight to go from point a to point b in x time for y price - if they feel FedEx is too expensive or Panther does not have a truck avalible they will find someone else.

Yes there is added value and quality of service with some of the standards that have been set by companies like FedEx but as one major shipper said - it is price and consistancy with price of the shipment that counts - not fancy trucks or dressing like you are going on a cruise.
 

babs3361

Expert Expediter
As for Panther bring down the rates for the industry..... Have you not seen on CRST trucks the word expediting or on Werner Trucks Expediting this will be the industrys down fall for cut rates not Panthers.....Been with Panther for 3 1/2 yrs and still doing fine.
;) :eek: :p :)
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The operators can and do make a difference. One of my teams took a load from Orlando to West Point. Three days later it had to go back. When the customer called in to get it returned they said they wanted the same team that brought it up. There were others closer but my team was able to go get it and the customer was satisfied. Most customers could care less so attitude, presentation etc. only goes so far but for some customers it does make a difference.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

The Gibster

Expert Expediter
Larry, you make some very good points, some I'm sure other expediters are concerned about as well.

I agree with you, but might add - I'm not sure we would see a price or freight implosion. That is, freight dry up, or rates completely go down the pooper.

And I guess I look at history for my theory . . .when in places like Miami we get a load and the dispatcher will tell us some other broker 'saw' our truck in the area, knew he could get bigger bucks for an expedited load and shopped one to his clients.

On other occasions we've gotten a 3rd party major carrier load paying a great rate because the trucks for that carrier wouldn't take it. Rather than lose the load revenue completely they farmed it out, we picked it up and got paid well for it.

So I guess my point here is a lot of the rates are driven by the broker (who is going to try to get good money), by a salesman at the product manufacturer (trying to get good money) or by the drivers and owner operators saying back on load offers, "we won't run it for that price".

You're right, sometimes our only recourse to a cheap freight company is to switch from that company. I think the rates will balance themselves out to a 'workable' level. Freight gets sold, booked and delivered at that price per mile on a pretty consistent level.

I also think, and just a personal opinion here - alot more expediters will be running under their own authority in the future, naming their price, run areas, and working methods.

The industry is evolving, changing, 'burping'. But I don't think it'll implode.

Great points Larry! Be safe out there!

The Gibster
 
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