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ELD''s in cargo/sprinter vans

Discussion in 'General Expediter Forum' started by rodeojunkie, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Turtle
    Alienated

    Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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    You've got a wildly undefined "it" hanging out there. What does "it" mean? Does "it" mean HAZMAT full time, or does "it" mean driving a CMV full time, or does "it" mean perform work for compensation full time?

    It would take not merely a good lawyer, but rather the best lawyer ever. I've learned two things about the FMCSA regulations: Never try and use common sense in applying the regulations, and never overthink it. A CMV driver is either on-duty and performing work for compensation (either for a carrier or for someone who is not a carrier), or they are off-duty and relieved of all work.

    A cargo van driver is not, generally speaking, a driver of a commercial motor vehicle. The only time he is is when he's placarded for HAZMAT. The instant he unloads that hazardous material he is no longer a CMV driver. Period. Any time a cargo van driver operates a commercial motor vehicle (including but not limited to a placarded cargo van), he must account for the hours he has performed work (on-duty) over the previous seven days, regardless of what that work might be, whether it be operating a cash register at the Seven Eleven, popping the corn for Ragman's Saturday matinees, or, driving a cargo van.

    Not if those asking the questions understand the definitions of Commercial Motor Vehicle and of On-Duty. If they think "driver of a vehicle that hauls freight" applies to everybody regardless of the definitions within the regulations, yeah, it's gonna be confusing. But a good lawyer will know the definitions and will be asking the right questions.
     
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  2. BigStickJr

    BigStickJr Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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    I buy your arguments if debating in a room full of lawyers.
    Presenting my arguments to a jury, think Billy Joe and Bobby Sue,( two Young lovers with nothing better to do) an average lawyer could muddy the waters, create enough confusion to prevail.
    I quess we'll wait and see.
    I guess the real answer will be seeing how cautious the industry leaders are on this issue.
    We know how the sketchier members of our community will handle this.

    Billy Joe and Bobby Sue could have been expediters.

    They went down to El Paso,
    Where they got into a great big hassle.....

    I recommend Steve Miller of the Take The Money and Run Law Firm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  3. BigStickJr

    BigStickJr Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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    Any time a cargo van driver operates a commercial motor vehicle....,must account for the hours he has performed work (on-duty) over the previous seven days....or.driving a cargo van.

    The argument I've been trying to make.
     
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  4. BigStickJr

    BigStickJr Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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    It's been confirmed.
    Billy Joe and Bobby Sue ARE Expediters.
    ( The initials should have been a clue.)

    According to Steve:

    They got the money
    Yeah, they got away
    Bought a new Transit
    And they're still running today
    Singing.......
     
  5. Turtle
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    Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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    It's an old argument, and one that cargo van drivers who occasionally haul HAZMAT have been complying with for years. The only thing that might change for some people with the ELD mandate is the method of accounting for those previous seven days. It just depends on how the carrier decides to implement ELDs in cargo vans when those vans are not CMVs. Won't be a big deal regardless.
     
  6. Moot
    Confused

    Moot Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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    You certainly have a keen I for detail.
     
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  7. Moot
    Confused

    Moot Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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    Congratulations, you did it!
     
  8. roadeyes

    roadeyes Veteran Expediter Charter Member

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    The "word" of the law implies to me that if you are driving non hazmat you are still performing a duty for the carrier and should at the very least be logging it as being on duty and most truthfully should be logging it as driving, that way there is proof that the driver had proper off duty rest before hauling that loggable hazmat.
    Carriers that let their cargo vans load loggable hazmat should be making them properly log 24/7/365 as it will go along way to protecting both the carriers and driver's asses in the event of an incident.

    Vanners, if you agree to accept loggable hazmat at all, even if you only get one every once in a while, you are still on duty if on a non haz run so either log 24/7 or don't do hazmat period is how I would interpret and enforce the "spirit" of the law.
    This is why some carriers have the policy of only allowing hazmat on trucks that would normally log anyway.
    As was mentioned, it's too much of a hassle to ensure compliance with the vanners.
    Eventually you will all be forced to log. Technology makes it so easy and most of you are already being monitored by your carrier anyway so it really won't be anything new when it becomes law.
     
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  9. BigStickJr

    BigStickJr Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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    Yes eye do.
     
  10. OntarioVanMan
    Thinking

    OntarioVanMan Veteran Expediter Owner/Operator

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    maybe it is time to be professional....maybe time to re consider the logging issue for all CV's doing interstate loads?...
    do you really think you are any further ahead doing 30 hour drive on 5hrs sleep with a couple power naps...safe?...are you really making more? or is your carrier just throwing you to the wolves?...
    If it drives out enough of the free loaders it just might increase rates like a straight truck...no one would have an advantage over the next guy...and you'd probably be healthier to boot...?....
    I am a cargo van driver..PERIOD...nothing special nothing professional about it really...
     
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  11. roadeyes

    roadeyes Veteran Expediter Charter Member

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    I agree. While it will somewhat level the playing field, it will also cause more freight to be shifted onto team vehicles that would previously be done by a solo if the times are tight.
    The trucking industry as a whole has a huge opportunity here to make the shippers wake up and realize they can't waste a drivers time like they have been used to doing. Getting loaded/unloaded quick will have to become a priority and the industry has a chance here to make the shippers/receivers accountable because they can blame it on government regulation without the carrier making themselves look like the bad guy.
    Detention time needs to start after one hour now not two, and be enforced for all customers.
    This is the opportunity for the industry to come together and tighten capacity and increase rates while using the government as a scapegoat. I hope they are smart enough to take advantage of it.


    Professionalism is an attitude Ken, the occupation is irrelevant. Don't sell yourself short!:)
     
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