Death by DeSantis

ATeam

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Some say this is an interesting graph.
California has been a pro lockdown state while Florida hasn’t been. Yet the most vulnerable have been protected( statistically) better in Florida.
I've not taken a deep dive into this topic so my opinions are not firmly held. I did come across an interesting item that merits consideration. That's the timing of the outbreaks. Some states were hit by the virus well before many others were. Early on, we knew far less about the virus itself and how best to respond to it. That put the early states at a major disadvantage. They did not have the benefit of experience. They did not have the chance to observe other states for important lessons learned.

So, if we are going to use any metric to support an argument about one state's outcomes being better than another's, it seems wise to make sure we are comparing apples to apples. It seems wise to compare state-by-state results over a snapshot time period, like maybe a month, and not over longer time periods where other variables may be decisive but not included in a two-statistic analysis like the one you show here.
 
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ATeam

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DeSantis also had the most vulnerable group vaccinated at a better rate too. Ninety percent.
4 percent better than California.
Using the chart from Mayo Clinic you cited, I see Florida has 90.0% of people over 65 fully vaccinated.

The top state is VT at 99.9%. The bottom state is WV at 74.3%. All states but three (WV, AR, AL) topped 80.0%.

Of the 23 states that topped 90.0%, 14 have Democratic governors. 9 have Republican governors.

Of the states that topped 90.0%, Florida is the bottom-ranked state, coming in 23 of 23.

If you are going to use the fully-vaccinated rate as an indicator of how well a state governor had the most vulnerable group vaccinated, the numbers support the following conclusions:

1. Democratic governors do a better job than Republican governors.
2. Among the states with Republican governors that topped 90.0%, DeSantis did the worst.
3. Among all states that topped 90.0%, DeSantis did the worst.
4. Among all 50 states, DeSantis is mid-range effective in protecting the most vulnerable group.

While it's fun to dissect such data to make it say whatever you want it to say in defense of a certain point of view, that's all we're really doing. In fact, I don't think a governor of any state can be fully credited or blamed for that state's vaccination rate. Within a state, the county numbers will significantly vary. Would you use that data to demonstrate how much more or less effective a given county head is in getting the most vulnerable group vaccinated? Within each county, city vaccination rates vary. Would you use that data to credit or blame the mayors?

And if a governor is supposed to receive credit or blame for his/her state's vaccination rate, why would county and city rates differ at all? If the governor actually has the power to influence the state rate, the rate would be the same in all counties and cities, would it not?

In fact, numerous variables apply. It is over-simplistic and unhelpful to pick a number out of the air and use it to say that a particular governor is doing a good or bad job.
 
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Pilgrim

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Maybe I am missing the point. If I understand your post correctly, you are saying Florida is a top-five state ranked by people over 65. And you are saying Florida is a top-five state ranked by the total number of covid deaths. Is that correct?

Other than the top-five status the two stats you cite have in common (correlation), I don't see a meaningful connection. What does the number of seniors have to do with the number of covid deaths?
I'll take one last stab at making this simple point: more senior citizens in any given state will raise the covid death count. They are more vulnerable to the virus, thus the direct correlation between the two numbers in any given state. I'm not singling out Florida and this little factoid is not meant to be related to covid management by state govts.
 
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muttly

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Using the chart from Mayo Clinic you cited, I see Florida has 90.0% of people over 65 fully vaccinated.

The top state is VT at 99.9%. The bottom state is WV at 74.3%. All states but three (WV, AR, AL) topped 80.0%.

Of the 23 states that topped 90.0%, 14 have Democratic governors. 9 have Republican governors.

Of the states that topped 90.0%, Florida is the bottom-ranked state, coming in 23 of 23.

If you are going to use the fully-vaccinated rate as an indicator of how well a state governor had the most vulnerable group vaccinated, the numbers support the following conclusions:

1. Democratic governors do a better job than Republican governors.
2. Among the states with Republican governors that topped 90.0%, DeSantis did the worst.
3. Among all states that topped 90.0%, DeSantis did the worst.
4. Among all 50 states, DeSantis is mid-range effective in protecting the most vulnerable group.

While it's fun to dissect such data to make it say whatever you want it to say in defense of a certain point of view, that's all we're really doing. In fact, I don't think a governor of any state can be fully credited or blamed for that state's vaccination rate. Within a state, the county numbers will significantly vary. Would you use that data to demonstrate how much more or less effective a given county head is in getting the most vulnerable group vaccinated? Within each county, city vaccination rates vary. Would you use that data to credit or blame the mayors?

And if a governor is supposed to receive credit or blame for his/her state's vaccination rate, why would county and city rates differ at all? If the governor actually has the power to influence the state rate, the rate would be the same in all counties and cities, would it not?

In fact, numerous variables apply. It is over-simplistic and unhelpful to pick a number out of the air and use it to say that a particular governor is doing a good or bad job.
An important variable in vaccination rates for a particular state is the demographics and statistically speaking, their reluctancy in wanting to get the vaccine. A state like Vermont has lot of white democrats in their state. A demographic that is most likely to get the vaccine. A smaller percentage of republicans and minorities in that state who are more hesitant to get the vaccine. A state like Florida has a large amount of both Republicans and Democratic minorities. Two demographic groups most likely not to want to get the vaccine.
Without a vaccine mandate, not much you can do other than make them (vaccines) easily assessable when and if they decide to get it. Reportedly Desantis has done a great job in making them easy to get.
 
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Pilgrim

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Did they not have drive thru sites up there in your area? Down here in broward I don’t think they could have made it any easier.


Sent from my iPhone using EO Forums
Ocala is a fairly small city of about 158,000, probably typical of "middle Florida". I easily found this list of locations to get covid vaccinations in that area.
There's 50. What am I missing?
 

ATeam

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What am I missing?
You're missing the distinction between "Great Job" which muttly claims and average job which the results show. Repeating what was stated above, Florida was ranked 23rd of 50 states in terms of the number of people over 65 who are fully vaccinated. 23 of 50 is not great. It's average.

DeSantis did not do a bad job, and I'm grateful for that. Like many others, I was able to obtain a drive-through vaccination (two doses). However, getting that first appointment was not easy, it was very difficult. Early on, there was a mad rush for these appointments. I got mine by having both me and Diane each use our computers to camp out on the web site, waiting for it to open, and then refreshing the web page over and over again in hopes of it opening up to allow us to schedule the appointment.

I never did get in. After about 60 tries, Diane lucked out and was able to schedule an appointment on my behalf. Many people we know were deeply frustrated because they did not have the time and determination we did. They had to wait days or weeks to get the vaccinations they dearly wanted. Many were doing the same thing Diane and I did but had worse luck. The number of available appointments were limited and they were claimed within a minute or two of the site opening up.

As with all other states, things settled down after more vaccines became available and states got their acts together. But it was anything but smooth at the beginning. Florida made national news when they started by forcing eager and often frail seniors to wait in line outdoors overnight to secure their place in line.

That was cruel and inhumane and it was a situation that could have been avoided. It outraged me and prompted me to contact health department officials directly. I told them I would be organizing protests at the vaccination sites and involving the media if they did not fix this. Their first response was to defend their first-come-first serve system. But that quickly faded and they figured out another way as the national news exposed this cruelty and a huge wave of public outrage overwhelmed their bureaucratic desire to use the system that made it easy for them to administer but neglected the health and safety needs of the desperate, elderly people lining up for the shots.

muttly used language above about caring for the most vulnerable (or words to that effect). Forcing vulnerable people to wait outdoors overnight is NOT how you show concern for their safety and wellbeing. This was 100% avoidable. Other states started with online appointment registration. Floida's inital system was third-world in comparison.
 
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muttly

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You're missing the distinction between "Great Job" which muttly claims and average job which the results show. Repeating what was stated above, Florida was ranked 23rd of 50 states in terms of the number of people over 65 who are fully vaccinated. 23 of 50 is not great. It's average.

DeSantis did not do a bad job, and I'm grateful for that. Like many others, I was able to obtain a drive-through vaccination (two doses). However, getting that first appointment was not easy, it was very difficult. Early on, there was a mad rush for these appointments. I got mine by having both me and Diane each use our computers to camp out on the web site, waiting for it to open, and then refreshing the web page over and over again in hopes of it opening up to allow us to schedule the appointment.

I never did get in. After about 60 tries, Diane lucked out and was able to schedule an appointment on my behalf. Many people we know were deeply frustrated because they did not have the time and determination we did. They had to wait days or weeks to get the vaccinations they dearly wanted. Many were doing the same thing Diane and I did but had worse luck. The number of available appointments were limited and they were claimed within a minute or two of the site opening up.

As with all other states, things settled down after more vaccines became available and states got their acts together. But it was anything but smooth at the beginning. Florida made national news when they started by forcing eager and often frail seniors to wait in line outdoors overnight to secure their place in line.

That was cruel and inhumane and it was a situation that could have been avoided. It outraged me and prompted me to contact health department officials directly. I told them I would be organizing protests at the vaccination sites and involving the media if they did not fix this. Their first response was to defend their first-come-first serve system. But that quickly faded and they figured out another way as the national news exposed this cruelty and a huge wave of public outrage overwhelmed their bureaucratic desire to use the system that made it easy for them to administer but neglected the health and safety needs of the desperate, elderly people lining up for the shots.

muttly used language above about caring for the most vulnerable (or words to that effect). Forcing vulnerable people to wait outdoors overnight is NOT how you show concern for their safety and wellbeing. This was 100% avoidable. Other states started with online appointment registration. Floida's inital system was third-world in comparison.
The caring for the most vulnerable comment specifically meant vaccinated them first as a priority and keeping them safe from getting infected in assistant living and nursing homes early on. Not putting COVID positive people in the same facility with them like some Governors did. He was ahead of the curve in that respect.
 

ATeam

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The caring for the most vulnerable comment specifically meant vaccinated them first as a priority and keeping them safe from getting infected in assistant living and nursing homes early on. Not putting COVID positive people in the same facility with them like some Governors did. He was ahead of the curve in that respect.
I know of one state, NY, where the controversial and deadly move of people from hospitals to nursing homes happened. Were there others? If so, which ones?

I don't know of a single state that did not prioritize the elderly in the vaccination order. Hard to be ahead of the curve when everyone is doing the very same thing.
 
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muttly

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Before you again put out the vaccination statistics for the elderly again, keep in mind that there isn’t a mandate to get the vaccine and also the demographics in the state of Florida have a heavy population of Republicans and democratic minorities that are reluctant to get vaccinated. Nothing much he can do about that, hence the heavy use of monoclonals to save lives. He also showed imitative in securing more of it when Biden’s administration started rationing supplies.
Great job.
 
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muttly

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I know of one state, NY, where the controversial and deadly move of people from hospitals to nursing homes happened. Were there others? If so, which ones?

I don't know of a single state that did not prioritize the elderly in the vaccination order. Hard to be ahead of the curve when everyone is doing the very same thing.
A few states Michigan for one.
 

muttly

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I know of one state, NY, where the controversial and deadly move of people from hospitals to nursing homes happened. Were there others? If so, which ones?

I don't know of a single state that did not prioritize the elderly in the vaccination order. Hard to be ahead of the curve when everyone is doing the very same thing.
Without having time right now to look up and just going by memory, DeSantis went against early CDC recommendations and vaccinated the elderly first.
 
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ATeam

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... hence the heavy use of monoclonals to save lives. He also showed imitative in securing more of it when Biden’s administration started rationing supplies.
Great job.
I see you're going to stick to "great job" no matter how pathetic certain aspects of DeSantis's covid plan are. There is that detail about Florida consistently being one of the nation's top covid hot spots month after month after month. But go ahead, call him great. I won't argue that point further.

I do agree that DeSantis did a great job in the early and continuing promotion of the monoclonal antibody treatment. Having a breakthrough case, I got that treatment myself and did so with ease as appointments were readily available and a treatment center was just a 30 minute drive away. Due to her exposure to me (she never tested positive), Diane was able to get the treatment also, free of charge for both of us.

I have urged all my Facebook friends to be aware of this treatment and for them and/or others to take full advantage of it if they have the need. This is good stuff and DeSantis deserves full credit for taking the lead on it.
 

ATeam

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Without having time right now to look up and just going by memory, DeSantis went against early CDC recommendations and vaccinated the elderly first.
I can wait for you to look it up and share factual data. Given your misconceptions and misinformation on other matters, I think it best to not rely on your memory.
 
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Pilgrim

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You're missing the distinction between "Great Job" which muttly claims and average job which the results show. Repeating what was stated above, Florida was ranked 23rd of 50 states in terms of the number of people over 65 who are fully vaccinated. 23 of 50 is not great. It's average.

DeSantis did not do a bad job, and I'm grateful for that. Like many others, I was able to obtain a drive-through vaccination (two doses). However, getting that first appointment was not easy, it was very difficult. Early on, there was a mad rush for these appointments. I got mine by having both me and Diane each use our computers to camp out on the web site, waiting for it to open, and then refreshing the web page over and over again in hopes of it opening up to allow us to schedule the appointment.

I never did get in. After about 60 tries, Diane lucked out and was able to schedule an appointment on my behalf. Many people we know were deeply frustrated because they did not have the time and determination we did. They had to wait days or weeks to get the vaccinations they dearly wanted. Many were doing the same thing Diane and I did but had worse luck. The number of available appointments were limited and they were claimed within a minute or two of the site opening up.

As with all other states, things settled down after more vaccines became available and states got their acts together. But it was anything but smooth at the beginning. Florida made national news when they started by forcing eager and often frail seniors to wait in line outdoors overnight to secure their place in line.

That was cruel and inhumane and it was a situation that could have been avoided. It outraged me and prompted me to contact health department officials directly. I told them I would be organizing protests at the vaccination sites and involving the media if they did not fix this. Their first response was to defend their first-come-first serve system. But that quickly faded and they figured out another way as the national news exposed this cruelty and a huge wave of public outrage overwhelmed their bureaucratic desire to use the system that made it easy for them to administer but neglected the health and safety needs of the desperate, elderly people lining up for the shots.

muttly used language above about caring for the most vulnerable (or words to that effect). Forcing vulnerable people to wait outdoors overnight is NOT how you show concern for their safety and wellbeing. This was 100% avoidable. Other states started with online appointment registration. Floida's inital system was third-world in comparison.
That sounds almost identical to our experience in TN. We started trying to places in late Jan-Early Feb and it was next to impossible. I caught covid on Groundhog's Day before I had a chance to find a shot. My wife finally found a Wal-Mart on the other side of the county and got an appt in early March. During February the few sites that were offering shots were first come - first serve and people regardless of age or physical condition were camping out in hopes of getting their shot before the place ran out. From what I've heard this was typical all over the country due to lack of available vaccine. OTOH, the monoclonal treatments were readily available for seniors and people with underlying conditions and I got mine the day after I tested positive. I haven't heard of anyone that had a problem getting a monoclonal treatment within the 10-day window. I don't know if that's typical of other states around the country, but it's highly likely that shots were hard to find anywhere early in year.
 

ATeam

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OTOH, the monoclonal treatments were readily available for seniors and people with underlying conditions and I got mine the day after I tested positive. I haven't heard of anyone that had a problem getting a monoclonal treatment within the 10-day window. I don't know if that's typical of other states around the country, but it's highly likely that shots were hard to find anywhere early in year.
I'm really glad to hear you got near-immediate monoclonal treatment like you did. COVID-19 is no joke. I think it's excellent you moved quickly to get that virus out of your body like you did.

It pissed me off to develop a breakthrough case of COVID-19 after being fully vaccinated. The vaccine did a good job of keeping my symptoms mild and the monoclonal treatment sped my recovery.

Having no underlying conditions, being in excellent health and good shape, and being fully vaccinated, monoclonal treated and now having a degree of natural immunity, I should be almost bulletproof now, right?
 
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