contracts
- Thread starter grog111
- Start date
At however many hundred bucks an hour your lawyer charges, I'd hate to have to pay it while he learns my business. IMHO it would be more satisfying to do research oneself, create a contract, and then take it to the lawyer for approval and tweaking. You can find bits and pieces here and there on the net if nobody is willing to give you a copy of theirs, enough that you could at least get a good start on one before the cash meter starts.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Learning the business is actually not a big deal, it can be a one page document just outlining what you are doing, spelling out the simple but key things. You don't have to have a business plan with detailed marking forecasts, projected earnings or anything like that, just the basics so they can understand what you may face.
Actually it is about building the relationship, something that seems to be a problem when you need a lawyer is not finding one but finding one who can help you and you can trust them. I tell people you can pay now up front a few hundred or pay later and maybe get screwed.
The contract should not be a boilerplate contract that is copied from someone else, especially out of state unless a lawyer is going to use it to craft one for an owner.
I know of one person who is in litigation right now because he did just that - copied a contract. The driver got into an accident and now both are being sued by the person they hit (it was the driver's fault) plus the driver is suing the owner because of the contract was not clear enough about responsibilities. The owner took two weeks to find a lawyer who could help him out. It is a big mess and the lawyer fees just for the owner have been above $15k. His company is out of business, sold the trucks and now may lose his house - and yes he is incorporated.
Actually it is about building the relationship, something that seems to be a problem when you need a lawyer is not finding one but finding one who can help you and you can trust them. I tell people you can pay now up front a few hundred or pay later and maybe get screwed.
The contract should not be a boilerplate contract that is copied from someone else, especially out of state unless a lawyer is going to use it to craft one for an owner.
I know of one person who is in litigation right now because he did just that - copied a contract. The driver got into an accident and now both are being sued by the person they hit (it was the driver's fault) plus the driver is suing the owner because of the contract was not clear enough about responsibilities. The owner took two weeks to find a lawyer who could help him out. It is a big mess and the lawyer fees just for the owner have been above $15k. His company is out of business, sold the trucks and now may lose his house - and yes he is incorporated.
I would agree as this contract question comes up a lot. Too many things that are state, carrier, and owner specific for a one size fits all.
With regards to incorporating, it does have certain tax advantages for some. Definitely not all.
As for protecting assets in the event of a lawsuit, it only adds a layer. One can still sue whomever owns the corporation.
With regards to incorporating, it does have certain tax advantages for some. Definitely not all.
As for protecting assets in the event of a lawsuit, it only adds a layer. One can still sue whomever owns the corporation.
Hmmm..., My thinking behind asking the question was that I know there are many multi truck owners on here, and that there was no need to re-invent the wheel, so to speak. However, you all make some very good points. I wonder what your thoughts are on creating a "trust" to manage liability issue's ? Is that over-kill ? Perhaps a very good insurance policy would cover those type's of issue's.
Although liability's are a major concern, I've seen enough on here to know that driver/owner relationships can become heated over sometimes great, sometimes rather small issue's. No-one likes to be micro-managed, but, are there particular issue's that tend to come up on a regular basis ?
Although liability's are a major concern, I've seen enough on here to know that driver/owner relationships can become heated over sometimes great, sometimes rather small issue's. No-one likes to be micro-managed, but, are there particular issue's that tend to come up on a regular basis ?
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I don't get what issues?
The issues that I face may be different than Dave faces which are different than what Dave (another one) faces.
The problem with any driver/owner disputes seems to be one of two things;
1 - the owner operates without a contract, hence does not define the critical issues like downtime, accidents or in some cases pay. What goes hand in hand with this is a lack a clear explanation of what is in the contract and sometimes even limits like repair issues and downtime.
2 - the owner takes advantage of the driver and in some cases fails to fulfill the most basic obligation - paying them.
Trusts?
Across state lines?
I just don't know about that.
The issues that I face may be different than Dave faces which are different than what Dave (another one) faces.
The problem with any driver/owner disputes seems to be one of two things;
1 - the owner operates without a contract, hence does not define the critical issues like downtime, accidents or in some cases pay. What goes hand in hand with this is a lack a clear explanation of what is in the contract and sometimes even limits like repair issues and downtime.
2 - the owner takes advantage of the driver and in some cases fails to fulfill the most basic obligation - paying them.
Trusts?
Across state lines?
I just don't know about that.
I have been operating a fleet as a fleet owner for over 13 years, It is something that you constantly have to revisit. I started out with a basic independant contractor version and have added to it. I recently found a lawyer that has transportation experiance and sat down and he gave me his thought and safeguards, but again I think it is somethng that needs to be looked at from time to time to make sure that both you and your contract driver oare on the same page, ie (pay / what is expected of both parties / accidents ). It is about protecting yourself but also being fair and letting the contractor know what they need and need to do to keep the relationship and make it work for both of you.
I do agree with having to periodically review them as some things change for a variety reasons. A good example off the top of my head would be hiring someone say out of NJ. A $750 cost has to be added to bring them on as a independent contractor. The 750 is so they can opt out of the states workers compensation which is expensive. In lieu of that, they can obtain a accident policy that is provided by a third party or by the carrier.
Only know this when we had a team apply for a position several years ago.
Only know this when we had a team apply for a position several years ago.
You will end up revising it because drivers have a nack of finding ways to screw things up, steal, break things, not do paperwork, quit on you with no notice etc.
Things to include:
Pay structure
Truck maintenance
Who's responsible for damages and deductibles
Paperwork policy including logs, trip sheets, ifta and how frequently they turn it in
Two week notice if they quit clause or poss face a penalty
How often they should be in service
Fuel card policy, cash advance policy
Accepting and refusing loads..I like to define that
possible fine structure for not following procedures in contract
That shoulod be a good start, just be very discriptive and defeine everything, make them sign it and give them a copy so they know what you expect.
Things to include:
Pay structure
Truck maintenance
Who's responsible for damages and deductibles
Paperwork policy including logs, trip sheets, ifta and how frequently they turn it in
Two week notice if they quit clause or poss face a penalty
How often they should be in service
Fuel card policy, cash advance policy
Accepting and refusing loads..I like to define that
possible fine structure for not following procedures in contract
That shoulod be a good start, just be very discriptive and defeine everything, make them sign it and give them a copy so they know what you expect.
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