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Turtle

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I was reading an article the other day where it was showing what a N95 mask with an exhaust valve looks like and that is the worst kind of mask you can wear in this situation. They are saying we should wear masks not to protect ourselves, but to protect everyone else from us and the exhaust valve renders it useless in that situtaion.
That article is kind of (OK, a lot) overblown. It makes it sound like wearing an N95 with an exhalation valve is no different than not wearing a mask at all. The exhalation valves won't be found on medical grade N95 masks, but you do find them on masks used for construction, painting, sanding, mowing the lawn, etc. But do keep in mind that OSHA and the CDC have recommended N95 masks with the exhalation valves to be used in hospitals while treating COVID-19.

You wouldn't want to use a valved mask (or a standard surgical mask, for that matter) where a sterile field must be maintained (e.g., during an invasive procedure in an operating or procedure room) because the exhalation valve allows unfiltered exhaled air to escape into the sterile field, just as the non-sealed standard surgical mask or homemade mask or scarf would.

The article attempted to make the reader believe that a homemade mask or something like a bandana will somehow magically prevent the virus from being exhaled into the atmosphere, yet an N95 mask with an exhalation valve will somehow just spew the virus everywhere.

If you wear a standard surgical mask, most any mask with earloops (instead of headbands that pull the mask tight on the face), any mask that doesn't have a tight seal on the face, that allows air to enter or escape through any opening, any mask that will allow your glasses to fog, it's just as useless (or just as effective) as an N95 mask with an exhalation valve at protecting others.

A homemade mask, scarf, bandana, surgical mask, etc., and an N95 with an exhalation valve, all offer exactly the same protection to others, in that it dramatically reduces the distance and spread of exhaled virus.

The only difference is, an N95 mask with an exhalation valve ALSO protects the wearer, and keeps the heat and moisture level inside the mask to a manageable level. But one with the valve is no better or worse at protecting the people around the wearer than is any other non-sealed mask.

Whether you're wearing a mask with a valve or any other non-sealed mask, you don't want to lean in a foot away and have a lengthy conversation. You still want to maintain your distance. But the notion that an N95 mask with a valve is useless, compared to a surgical mask or homemade mask, is absurd.
 

LDB

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New mask guidelines announced. So far, restricted to democrats as they are more important and more special. Take one Kroger (or other store) plastic bag. Place it over the head. Secure firmly around neck with duct tape.
 
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scottm4211

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New mask guidelines announced. So far, restricted to democrats as they are more important and more special. Take one Kroger (or other store) plastic bag. Place it over the head. Secure firmly around neck with duct tape.
What a way to go through life.
 
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muttly

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I was reading an article the other day where it was showing what a N95 mask with an exhaust valve looks like and that is the worst kind of mask you can wear in this situation. They are saying we should wear masks not to protect ourselves, but to protect everyone else from us and the exhaust valve renders it useless in that situtaion.
Agree. I have to spend about two hours in an office per day where some are refusing to wear a mask that is mandated to wear. If everyone wore a mask (not the one with an exhaust valve) it would be a relatively safe environment. But no, there are a few that don't want to wear it because it's uncomfortable or too hot. Just today while I was leaving the office and exiting thru a doorway, another worker was coming in and nearly collided with me as he was talking loudly to another employee. He wasn't wearing a mask. I mumbled to myself "thanks a lot". Happens too often.
 

Turtle

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If everyone wore a mask (not the one with an exhaust valve) it would be a relatively safe environment.
If everyone wore an N95 mask without the exhalation valve, there wouldn't be any left for hospitals to use.

The mask below provides mostly, sort of, the same protection for others as an N95 mask with a valve. Notice the ear loops, doesn't pull the mask tight to the face. Notice the large gaps at the cheeks. That allows for far more exhaled droplets and virus than the valve of an N95 mask. Notice the gaps under the eyes on either side of the nose. You can drive a truckload of coronavirus through there. But even with those gaps, the mask creates a relatively safe environment by dramatically reducing the amount of virus that gets expelled into the air (by 50-75%), as a significant amount will be trapped by the mask material, it reduces the spread pattern, and reduces the distance the virus will travel in the air (instead of 6 feet, it's 2-3 feet). An N95 mask with the valve reduces travel distances to well under 2 feet, and the electrostatic material of the N95 mask reduces the amount of virus that gets expelled into the air by 90-95%.

In order of protection to others... The top 2 are the best, but all of the rest are still very, very good as reducing or halting the spread of the virus. If no mask at all is a zero, and a sealed N95 respirator is a 100, then a scarf is better than a 50 or 60. Any mask at all, just like coughing into your elbow, is leaps and bounds ahead of no mask at all.
N95 respirator, sealed
N95 respirator, valved
Mask w/earloops
Surgical mask
Homemade mask
Scarf or bandana

_110603108_gettyimages-533567012.jpg

The image below shows a properly fitted N95 mask. The rubber bands pull the mask tightly to the face with no gaps. The metal band over the bridge of the nose is bent to seal the mask to the nose, so no gaps.

images.jpg
 
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muttly

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If everyone wore an N95 mask without the exhalation valve, there wouldn't be any left for hospitals to use.

The mask below provides mostly, sort of, the same protection for others as an N95 mask with a valve. Notice the ear loops, doesn't pull the mask tight to the face. Notice the large gaps at the cheeks. That allows for far more exhaled droplets and virus than the valve of an N95 mask. Notice the gaps under the eyes on either side of the nose. You can drive a truckload of coronavirus through there. But even with those gaps, the mask creates a relatively safe environment by dramatically reducing the amount of virus that gets expelled into the air (by 50-75%), as a significant amount will be trapped by the mask material, it reduces the spread pattern, and reduces the distance the virus will travel in the air (instead of 6 feet, it's 2-3 feet). An N95 mask with the valve reduces travel distances to well under 2 feet, and the electrostatic material of the N95 mask reduces the amount of virus that gets expelled into the air by 90-95%.

In order of protection to others... The top 2 are the best, but all of the rest are still very, very good as reducing or halting the spread of the virus. If no mask at all is a zero, and a sealed N95 respirator is a 100, then a scarf is better than a 50 or 60. Any mask at all, just like coughing into your elbow, is leaps and bounds ahead of no mask at all.
N95 respirator, sealed
N95 respirator, valved
Mask w/earloops
Surgical mask
Homemade mask
Scarf or bandana

View attachment 20053

The image below shows a properly fitted N95 mask. The rubber bands pull the mask tightly to the face with no gaps. The metal band over the bridge of the nose is bent to seal the mask to the nose, so no gaps.

View attachment 20054
My reference about everyone wearing a mask was about the surgical masks that we are given here at my work . I also made my previous post without first reading your previous post about the n95 masks with the exhaust. Just too many people I'm seeing at work reluctant to wear some type of barrier and/ or not wearing it properly.
 

Turtle

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The ones who refuse to wear a mask think it's a freedom thing, when in reality it's just a be-rude-to-others thing. I'm totally fine with shaming and belittling (but not beating to a pulp) people who refuse to wear a mask around others.

I see it. Not that often because I'm social distancing like crazy, but I'll venture out of the van for a little bit to go into the truck stop or go get something to eat, and anyone who isn't wearing a mask, I give them plenty of distance.
 
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Turtle

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I have to assume the author of that piece is still in 7th grade, because that's precisely the grade level at which her journalist skills and writing abilities reside.

As for Dr. Russell Blaylock, he's a famous crackpot who believes MSG (naturally occurring umami in Parmesan cheese, mushrooms, soy sauce, anchovies, tomatoes, corn, cured ham, grape juice, Cheddar cheese, potatoes, clams and peas) in any amount is toxic to the brain, that aspartame causes multiple sclerosis, and thinks Splenda causes Alzheimer's Disease.

I didn't check them all, but the first three footnoted studies have all been widely panned as deeply flawed. His claim that 17 of the very bestest best studies failed to establish conclusively that masks prevent influenza infection is flat out wrong, as countless studies going back to the Spanish Flu pandemic show conclusively that wearing even a standard surgical mask reduces the rate of transmission of influenza by about 80%. His claim that no studies have shown that either cloth masks or N95 respirators have any effect on the transmission of the COVID-19 virus is also false. Already there are numerous clinical and field studies out of the US, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Italy, Canada, Germany and Finland that show that cloth masks reduce the transmission rate by 50-60% and N95 reduce the transmission rate by 80%.

 
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davekc

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They are building 2 Buc-ees here in Florida, I drove past them on I95 last weekend, the one in St Augistine the framework is going up and the one in Daytona they are starting to clear the land. I cant wait, love stopping at a Buc-ees in Texas when I was on the road.
I'm close to.the one in Daytona. Kolaches. Can t wait until it opens as well.
 

muttly

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I have to assume the author of that piece is still in 7th grade, because that's precisely the grade level at which her journalist skills and writing abilities reside.

As for Dr. Russell Blaylock, he's a famous crackpot who believes MSG (naturally occurring umami in Parmesan cheese, mushrooms, soy sauce, anchovies, tomatoes, corn, cured ham, grape juice, Cheddar cheese, potatoes, clams and peas) in any amount is toxic to the brain, that aspartame causes multiple sclerosis, and thinks Splenda causes Alzheimer's Disease.

I didn't check them all, but the first three footnoted studies have all been widely panned as deeply flawed. His claim that 17 of the very bestest best studies failed to establish conclusively that masks prevent influenza infection is flat out wrong, as countless studies going back to the Spanish Flu pandemic show conclusively that wearing even a standard surgical mask reduces the rate of transmission of influenza by about 80%. His claim that no studies have shown that either cloth masks or N95 respirators have any effect on the transmission of the COVID-19 virus is also false. Already there are numerous clinical and field studies out of the US, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Italy, Canada, Germany and Finland that show that cloth masks reduce the transmission rate by 50-60% and N95 reduce the transmission rate by 80%.

Some of things he said seemed farfetched. I think in general wearing a mask is a good thing to prevent the spread of the virus somewhat. A couple things he mentioned caught my interest though. The prolonged wearing of the mask and oxygen levels. The possibility of it having an affect on a healthy person defeating the virus because of that. I wear my mask approximately 10 hours a day and do it with sometimes heavy exercise. So I will look more into that aspect of it. He also has recommended taking Vitamin D, multivitamin, and fish oil. I would agree with that. An anti-inflammatory diet that would include fish or fish oils is recommended by many doctors as a good idea and may help a person fight the virus. Some doctors are considered quacks for recommending mass dosages of Vitamin C. But one of the founding advocates of mass vitamin C for better immunity was none other than Linus Pauling. Other doctors that are considered quacks by many in the medical community are those that have been advocating the use of hydroxochliroquine as a treatment for C19. Yet there have been a few studies now that show it works, and works well in conjunction with zinc, and is done at an earlier stage of the illness.
I generally would have probably dismissed his position about wearing a mask and exhaling virus and eventually entering the brain tissue. Still skeptic, but not dismissing that theory out of hand either.
 

Turtle

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Some of things he said seemed farfetched.
It's OK. They are. :)
I think in general wearing a mask is a good thing to prevent the spread of the virus somewhat.
It helps a lot. Way better than no mask at all. But way better than a mask alone is a mask underneath a face shield. It reduces the chances of thr mask being soiled, and of particle buildup (be it dust or whatever).
A couple things he mentioned caught my interest though. The prolonged wearing of the mask and oxygen levels. The possibility of it having an affect on a healthy person defeating the virus because of that. I wear my mask approximately 10 hours a day and do it with sometimes heavy exercise.
Well, it's long been established that prolonged wearing of an N95 respirator is safe for up to 8 hours. That's the sealed surgical kind with no valve. The N95 with the exhalation valve, the manufacturers generally say to wear it until if becomes difficult to breathe, even multiple wearings over days. But that's really for construction, yard work, painting and sanding. But even the valved N95 masks in hospitals, the CDC (you know, the same experts that said masks don't work), say up to 8 hours is fine, or until they become soiled (as moisture reduces the electrostatic charge that traps the virus), or if breathing becomes difficult. If soiled or breathing becomes difficult, it's time to swap it out for another mask. That's gonna be true for most any type of mask, surgical, cloth, paper, scarf, whatever.

I only wear my mask once or twice a day for, like, 10 or 15 minutes at a time. So breathing difficulties haven't yet had a chance to manifest. I've been wearing the same mask for 2 weeks. But every time I take it off I give it a little shot of Lyson inside and out (actually, Microban spray at the moment, but that's the same as Lysol). I don't think I'd wear the same mask for more than about 4 hours before swapping it for a new one. Give it a chance to dry out from moisture buildup inside, and give it a little shot of Lysol, let it rest for a few hours. That's for an N95 mask, though. A standard surgical mask or some other kind of mask, if it wasn't soiled, damp, and breathing wasn't an issue, I might let it go all day. But still, if the mask is picking up virus, 4 hours.
Other doctors that are considered quacks by many in the medical community are those that have been advocating the use of hydroxochliroquine as a treatment for C19. Yet there have been a few studies now that show it works, and works well in conjunction with zinc, and is done at an earlier stage of the illness.
The people calling those doctors quacks were mainly the press. Too many doctors are using it themselves as a preventative.

One interesting thing I ran across the other day is this article about once or twice a day nasal washes.
One Habit Why Thailand Has So Few COVID Cases | Best Life

That peeked my interest and I found this from the NIH... Scroll down a tad to see the reults and conclusions.
Effectiveness of nasal irrigation devices: a Thai multicentre survey

Then found several other articles and studies that say the same thing.
Now I have a sinus douche.

I've known for a long time that rinsing the sinuses helps with dust, pollen, bacteria, colds, all kinds of sinus problems, and i should have been doing this years ago. But I'm doing it now. Worth looking into, anyway.
 
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muttly

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It's OK. They are. :)
It helps a lot. Way better than no mask at all. But way better than a mask alone is a mask underneath a face shield. It reduces the chances of thr mask being soiled, and of particle buildup (be it dust or whatever).
Well, it's long been established that prolonged wearing of an N95 respirator is safe for up to 8 hours. That's the sealed surgical kind with no valve. The N95 with the exhalation valve, the manufacturers generally say to wear it until if becomes difficult to breathe, even multiple wearings over days. But that's really for construction, yard work, painting and sanding. But even the valved N95 masks in hospitals, the CDC (you know, the same experts that said masks don't work), say up to 8 hours is fine, or until they become soiled (as moisture reduces the electrostatic charge that traps the virus), or if breathing becomes difficult. If soiled or breathing becomes difficult, it's time to swap it out for another mask. That's gonna be true for most any type of mask, surgical, cloth, paper, scarf, whatever.

I only wear my mask once or twice a day for, like, 10 or 15 minutes at a time. So breathing difficulties haven't yet had a chance to manifest. I've been wearing the same mask for 2 weeks. But every time I take it off I give it a little shot of Lyson inside and out (actually, Microban spray at the moment, but that's the same as Lysol). I don't think I'd wear the same mask for more than about 4 hours before swapping it for a new one. Give it a chance to dry out from moisture buildup inside, and give it a little shot of Lysol, let it rest for a few hours. That's for an N95 mask, though. A standard surgical mask or some other kind of mask, if it wasn't soiled, damp, and breathing wasn't an issue, I might let it go all day. But still, if the mask is picking up virus, 4 hours.
The people calling those doctors quacks were mainly the press. Too many doctors are using it themselves as a preventative.

One interesting thing I ran across the other day is this article about once or twice a day nasal washes.
One Habit Why Thailand Has So Few COVID Cases | Best Life

That peeked my interest and I found this from the NIH... Scroll down a tad to see the reults and conclusions.
Effectiveness of nasal irrigation devices: a Thai multicentre survey

Then found several other articles and studies that say the same thing.
Now I have a sinus douche.

I've known for a long time that rinsing the sinuses helps with dust, pollen, bacteria, colds, all kinds of sinus problems, and i should have been doing this years ago. But I'm doing it now. Worth looking into, anyway.
Thanks, I never thought about naval irrigation. Wasn't familiar with that at all even though have sinus problems. I'll have to start doing that. Will check out the local drug store for the iodine and the device, but I'm thinking they'll be out of those things and will have to order on Amazon.
 

Turtle

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This is the one I have.
https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/n...th-30-premixed-packets/ID=prod6101746-product

NeilMed is probably the most popular nasal rinse. They make the simple gravity fed (low pressure) neti pots, which none of the studies and articles recommend over the high volume, high pressure alternatives like the squeeze bottles, and the electronic pumps.

A standard salt packet (sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate) is Isotonic (0.9% saline), and two or three standard packets is 1.8% or 2.7%, which is Hypertonic. NeilMed makes Extra Strength packets, which is 1.8%.

If I as at home all the time, I'd get this one...
https://www.amazon.com/SinuPulse-Elite-Advanced-Irrigation-System/dp/B001CWT4JI/ref=sr_1_17?crid=KTTQB6GM5J48&dchild=1&keywords=nasal+rinse&qid=1589767226&sprefix=nasal+,hpc,259&sr=8-17

There's also the battery powered Navage, which plugs both nostrils and vacuum sucks the water up into one nostril and it flushes out the other nostril into a separate tank.
https://www.amazon.com/Navage-Combo...ords=nasal+rinse+navage&qid=1589767496&sr=8-7
 
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Turtle

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You know how Sweden has been touted as the shining example on the hill as doing it right, because they didn't shut down, and everybody on their own just kind of instinctively did the right thing with social distancing and stuff? Tucker Carlson even dedicated an entire show about how brilliant the Swedes are and how it's just stupid to shut everything down.

Well, Sweden's Scandinavian neighbors in deaths per million...

Denmark (93)
Finland (53)
Norway (44)

The US (267)
Sweden (358)
 

muttly

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You know how Sweden has been touted as the shining example on the hill as doing it right, because they didn't shut down, and everybody on their own just kind of instinctively did the right thing with social distancing and stuff? Tucker Carlson even dedicated an entire show about how brilliant the Swedes are and how it's just stupid to shut everything down.

Well, Sweden's Scandinavian neighbors in deaths per million...

Denmark (93)
Finland (53)
Norway (44)

The US (267)
Sweden (358)
This is a snapshot right now. Would like to see figures in about 6 months.
 
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