Buckeyes Riot Burn Destroy Property, Not A Thug In Sight

Turtle

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The news coverage treated both protesters and looters as one mob, no difference.
Exactly. That's a symptom of the hypocritical bias. Pilgrim did it, too. To wit:

When the streets are full of rampaging people, it's a totally different slant depending on their skin color, mainly.
Despite Pilgrim's allegations, I highly doubt the protesters in Ferguson intended to loot and destroy businesses - that was the work of the opportunists who appear for just that reason. The photos we all saw make it look as if the protesters and the looters were one & the same, but that's simply not true.

"
IMHO there's a big difference between a group of people whose intent is to loot, burn and destroy their own community and other people's businesses as opposed to those who have been partying all day and night and celebrating a championship win by their football team."

See what he did there? I don't know if it was intentional or unintentional, but the resulting effect is the same regardless. He took "a group of people" whose "intent" (a special word, meaning as if it was premeditated, and not a typical spontaneous mob action which is usually the case) to loot, burn and destroy "their own community" (how can anybody do that? That's crazy!) and then contrasted that "group of people" with the entirety of "those who have been partying all day and night," thereby elevating the "group of people" to the same stature of all those who were partying all day and night, meaning not just "a group of people" but everyone who participated in the protesting in Ferguson. The OSU riots are further mitigated by no mention whatsoever of the damage they did to "their own community."

That's how news stories get crafted with blatant bias.

It's much more difficult to demonize an entire group if you have to limit it to a qualified subset of the larger group. The opposite is true where you intentionally point out that it was just a handful of rioters who were the ones to set fires to couches and dumpsters, etc., making it very difficult to paint the large group as violent demons. But when you do that (paint one group with a wide brush and single out the exceptions of the other group) it makes to very easy (albeit a logical fallacy) to make the case that the two events were not the same at all.

Whereas if you treat each event equally, either by plucking out the exceptions in both groups and then defining the whole by that, or by broadly characterizing both groups as a whole by leaving out the exceptions from the characterizations, then both events have far more in common than their differences, with the only real differences being the scale of the riots, the color of the majority of the participants, and the events that provoked the riots. So when someone says they are completely different, those are really the only three differences that they're talking about. And when you get into the details of scale, all you're dealing with is the number of participants and time. So really, the case they're making is, the two riots are are completely different because of the color of the rioters and the reasons they rioted.

This isn't something I made up, or that I alone have observed. People all over the world have observed the same thing. It's the way they get reported that's the issue. And there are decades and decades of research and studies from sociological and psychological points of view as to why.

There are certain groups of people, mainly white racists (and to a large degree the more zealot of the American Conservative community) who are outraged, incensed and go just bat crap crazy when back-on-black crime, and 'black cop shoots unarmed white guy' doesn't get reported with the same zeal and fervor as 'white cop shoots unarmed black guy' does. They scream bias in the press. However, when white rioters are described affectionately as drunk and out-of-control revelers, while black rioters are described as violent protesters intent on destruction, they have no problem with that at all. That's not even, as Muttly put it, a false narrative, it's straight up hypocrisy. Own it.

If you own it, there's at least a semblance of a chance you can be a better person, if for no other reason you'll recognize when the media is attempting to manipulate you.
 

Turtle

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You stop, race baiter.
Like I said, there's really nothing else you need to post here to convince me.

It's most often the racists who level the charge of race-baiter, because they, like you, don't understand what is and is not race-baiting. A race-baiter is one who insinuates that racism is a dominant factor with regards to an event that either does not involve race or in which race is simply a minor element. Race-baiting has always meant to incite one group of people against another group of people on the basis of their racial differences. Moreover, historically, the term "race baiting" has always been used to describe the process by which WHITE agitators have aroused and incited WHITE audiences to attack black people, not the other way around. These days, white people, mostly racists, yell "race-baiter" whenever someone hits a little too close to home when talking about racism. They want to display their racism without being called racist. They don't understand what race-baiting is, but they know it's not good, so they throw that term out there to demonize their detractors (much the same way that gay folks bandy about the term homophobe towards anyone who doesn't think homosexuality is just wunnerful).

Not only does the racial bias in the press involve race, that's totally what it's about. Talking about an issue of race isn't race-baiting.

So once again, not only do we have you not understanding what you read, you don't even understand what you write. It's painful to watch.
 

muttly

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Like I said, there's really nothing else you need to post here to convince me.

It's most often the racists who level the charge of race-baiter, because they, like you, don't understand what is and is not race-baiting. A race-baiter is one who insinuates that racism is a dominant factor with regards to an event that either does not involve race or in which race is simply a minor element. Race-baiting has always meant to incite one group of people against another group of people on the basis of their racial differences. Moreover, historically, the term "race baiting" has always been used to describe the process by which WHITE agitators have aroused and incited WHITE audiences to attack black people, not the other way around. These days, white people, mostly racists, yell "race-baiter" whenever someone hits a little too close to home when talking about racism. They want to display their racism without being called racist. They don't understand what race-baiting is, but they know it's not good, so they throw that term out there to demonize their detractors (much the same way that gay folks bandy about the term homophobe towards anyone who doesn't think homosexuality is just wunnerful).

Not only does the racial bias in the press involve race, that's totally what it's about. Talking about an issue of race isn't race-baiting.

So once again, not only do we have you not understanding what you read, you don't even understand what you write. It's painful to watch.

There is no one in this forum that distorts the truth more than you do Turtle. And you consistently get your facts wrong. Its something you should really work on. You are not credible.
 

Turtle

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There is no one in this forum that distorts the truth more than you do Turtle. And you consistently get your facts wrong. Its something you should really work on. You are not credible.
Coming from you that means exactly nothing. You are the "Hidden Illiterate" where your illiteracy is hidden from even you. You don't know, and you don't know that you don't know, but you think you do. That's a scary thing.

If I have distorted anything in this thread, which you have alleged, or gotten any facts wrong, then it should be a piece of cake to lay it out on each and every one of them and prove it. But you can't do that, because in order to do that you'll have to distort (lie about) what I said, and/or take what I said out of context, or more likely, one of your favorites, pick some little irrelevant piece of minutiae and focus on that as if it matters, completely disregarding the entire issue of the thread. That's a tall order considering you don't understand what you read in the first place.

So stick your tongue out at me some more and I'll pretend to be hurt.
 

muttly

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Retired Expediter
Riotous thugs pour into the streets of Columbus after the Ohio State Buckeyes won the first ever National Championship tournament in college football.

Wait? What? Those were not thugs! They were a crowds of revelers!

That is how the mobs of mostly white college students, residents and fans of the football team were described as they showered the city of Columbus with their lawless and disrespectful activities. Thousands were on the streets causing havoc as they celebrated the victory and National Championship.

According to reports, at least a 89 fires were set to cars, couches, dumpsters and more by fans who poured out of the local bars and homes in the area. They even rushed into the horseshoe stadium and tore down football goal posts. The scene was described as “intense”.

Police dawned riot gear and suited up to contain the "crowds of revelers" and "throngs of fans" in their ignorant activity of destroying public and private property, setting fires, and more. Numerous canisters of tear gas were fired into the crowds, as was copious amounts of pepper spray. A handful of arrests were made.

Not once mentioned was the word "thug", "deviant", "disrespectful", "criminals", "animals", or "pointless" from the throngs of national reports of white people tearing up property for no good reason. The closest they came was the police saying that "SOME of those arrested MAY" face criminal or, get this, "university" charges. Uh, oh. You in big trubble now.

However, boy, let black folks take to the streets in anger and frustration over unarmed black teens being shot and killed around the country, or just up and choked to death by the police, and they're called all of these things and more.

So, if you're angry and riot, and black, you are a lawless animal thug, but if you're happy and riot, and white, you are a jovial reveler.

America's hypocrisy at it's finest, mirrored courtesy of the mostly white press.

Keep this in mind throughout the week as you hear them talk about the jovial rioters, uhm, I mean revelers, tearing up their own community over a football game.

I think it's hilarious. Black folks, probably not so much.

This Op is so ignorantly written. It wants people to believe that news reports from news organizations when covering riots involving blacks routinely use words like 'animals' and 'thugs' in describing them. It really is embarrassing .
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
This Op is so ignorantly written. It wants people to believe that news reports from news organizations when covering riots involving blacks routinely use words like 'animals' and 'thugs' in describing them. It really is embarrassing .

Barf,

For you to opine on something being "ignorantly written" is just hilarious ...

The only thing I can think of that would be even funnier would be if Pulaski were to try and point out other folks use of logical fallacies ...
 

muttly

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Retired Expediter
Barf,

For you to opine on something being "ignorantly written" is just hilarious ...

The only thing I can think of that would be even funnier would be if Pulaski were to try and point out other folks use of logical fallacies ...

Diaper boy to the rescue.
 

Pilgrim

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Despite Pilgrim's allegations, I highly doubt the protesters in Ferguson intended to loot and destroy businesses - that was the work of the opportunists who appear for just that reason. The photos we all saw make it look as if the protesters and the looters were one & the same, but that's simply not true.
So we just can't believe our lying eyes? You offer nothing but wishful thinking to support that statement. Maybe there were a few "protesters" who didn't loot and pillage, and a few "looters" who didn't protest, but it could be argued that all of them were rioters and they viewed looting and burning businesses to be acts of protest - especially in light of Michael Brown's stepfather (Louis Head, Ferguson resident) urging a crowd of "protesters" to "burn this b*tch down".
Michael Brown's stepfather at rally: 'Burn this ***** down!' - CNN.com

Exactly. That's a symptom of the hypocritical bias. Pilgrim did it, too.

See what he did there? I don't know if it was intentional or unintentional, but the resulting effect is the same regardless. He took "a group of people" whose "intent" (a special word, meaning as if it was premeditated, and not a typical spontaneous mob action which is usually the case) to loot, burn and destroy "their own community" (how can anybody do that? That's crazy!)...
Of course it's crazy - but that's what happened, and it wasn't "spontaneous"; it was organized, premeditated and was carried out by Ferguson residents and non-residents alike; many likely came from nearby communities. To say there was no intent by the rioters to destroy property and plunder businesses in Ferguson is simply unrealistic.
...and then contrasted that "group of people" with the entirety of "those who have been partying all day and night," thereby elevating the "group of people" to the same stature of all those who were partying all day and night, meaning not just "a group of people" but everyone who participated in the protesting in Ferguson. The OSU riots are further mitigated by no mention whatsoever of the damage they did to "their own community."
The difference between the two groups is obvious just like your comparison between category 5 and category 1 hurricanes. It's not bias - it's a difference in intent and the amount of damage done, injuries, and arrests made. Speaking of "damage done to their own community" in Columbus, it was pretty insignificant.

"Among the most significant damage: Hundreds of revelers broke into Ohio Stadium shortly after 2 a.m. and pulled down a goal post, university officials said. No one was arrested...
The group at the stadium damaged a lock at one of the gates to enter, and then pulled down the south goal post. It was a temporary post used for high-school football games, Hedman said.
Columbus police said that fewer than 10 people were arrested, primarily on charges related to the fires. Paramedics made three emergency runs for injured people between midnight and 7 a.m., though no one was seriously hurt."

Pepper spray use on Ohio State revelers to face Columbus police review | The Columbus Dispatch

One goalpost costs about $5K including materials and labor to replace. Notice there was no mention of looting or damage to local businesses and campus buildings.
That's how news stories get crafted with blatant bias.
These stories aren't about of bias, but instead involve the differences between a category 1 riot and a category 5 riot that was spread over several nights.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Stop. Just stop already. We've already been through this. You don't know what you're doing. You've got your own definitions for words, and you don't understand what you read. It's clear you haven't understood even half of what I've written in this thread. Everything you're posted about this has been off the mark. Every single one of your sentences in the quoted post above that attempts to summarize what I've said is completely wrong. It's astonishing how you can read something, and come away with something other than what was written, and at the same time think you understand what you read.

More proof that Common Core is needed in our schools. :rolleyes:
 

muttly

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Retired Expediter
So we just can't believe our lying eyes? You offer nothing but wishful thinking to support that statement. Maybe there were a few "protesters" who didn't loot and pillage, and a few "looters" who didn't protest, but it could be argued that all of them were rioters and they viewed looting and burning businesses to be acts of protest - especially in light of Michael Brown's stepfather (Louis Head, Ferguson resident) urging a crowd of "protesters" to "burn this b*tch down".
Michael Brown's stepfather at rally: 'Burn this ***** down!' - CNN.com


Of course it's crazy - but that's what happened, and it wasn't "spontaneous"; it was organized, premeditated and was carried out by Ferguson residents and non-residents alike; many likely came from nearby communities. To say there was no intent by the rioters to destroy property and plunder businesses in Ferguson is simply unrealistic.

The difference between the two groups is obvious just like your comparison between category 5 and category 1 hurricanes. It's not bias - it's a difference in intent and the amount of damage done, injuries, and arrests made. Speaking of "damage done to their own community" in Columbus, it was pretty insignificant.

"Among the most significant damage: Hundreds of revelers broke into Ohio Stadium shortly after 2 a.m. and pulled down a goal post, university officials said. No one was arrested...
The group at the stadium damaged a lock at one of the gates to enter, and then pulled down the south goal post. It was a temporary post used for high-school football games, Hedman said.
Columbus police said that fewer than 10 people were arrested, primarily on charges related to the fires. Paramedics made three emergency runs for injured people between midnight and 7 a.m., though no one was seriously hurt."

Pepper spray use on Ohio State revelers to face Columbus police review | The Columbus Dispatch

One goalpost costs about $5K including materials and labor to replace. Notice there was no mention of looting or damage to local businesses and campus buildings.

These stories aren't about of bias, but instead involve the differences between a category 1 riot and a category 5 riot that was spread over several nights.

Wait...what? No mention in the Columbus Dispatch of multiple cars burning or a vehicle overturned?
 

Turtle

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More rambling from the lying liar that you are.

This Op is so ignorantly written. It wants people to believe that news reports from news organizations when covering riots involving blacks routinely use words like 'animals' and 'thugs' in describing them. It really is embarrassing .

Simply piling on additional unsubstantiated, and false, allegations, and ignorant opinions does not in any way prove that anything I said is a distortion or incorrect. It should be very easy for you to lay it all out where I distorted facts or gave incorrect information. And it should be easy to do without picking and choosing out of context, or making up additional allegations.
 

muttly

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Turtle; Not once mentioned was the word "thug" said:
There is so many but here is one--
Turtle said:
'I'm not complaining about the presence or absence of specific keywords'
 

Turtle

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So we just can't believe our lying eyes? You offer nothing but wishful thinking to support that statement. Maybe there were a few "protesters" who didn't loot and pillage, and a few "looters" who didn't protest, but it could be argued that all of them were rioters and they viewed looting and burning businesses to be acts of protest - especially in light of Michael Brown's stepfather (Louis Head, Ferguson resident) urging a crowd of "protesters" to "burn this b*tch down".
Michael Brown's stepfather at rally: 'Burn this ***** down!' - CNN.com
I don't think there is any question that anyone anywhere wouldn't consider looting and burning businesses to be acts of protest. No one questioned that. But you implied that all of them, each and every person out there was of the same mindset, painting with as broad a brush as possible, and only in the above paragraph begrudgingly (and disingenuously) allow for the possibility that "maybe" "a few" protesters (and even included protesters in quotes to indicate they weren't protesters, but something else) that didn't loot and pillage. You honestly believe that every person out there was there specifically to burn, loot and pillage. And that's fine.

Of course it's crazy - but that's what happened, and it wasn't "spontaneous"; it was organized, premeditated and was carried out by Ferguson residents and non-residents alike; many likely came from nearby communities. To say there was no intent by the rioters to destroy property and plunder businesses in Ferguson is simply unrealistic.
I never said there was no intent by anyone, I'm sure a few had that very thing on their mind, but to say that they ALL did isn't merely unrealistic, it's absurd. Mob mentality doesn't even work that way, planned or unplanned.

The difference between the two groups is obvious just like your comparison between category 5 and category 1 hurricanes.
Yes, I know. I just got through saying that.

It's not bias - it's a difference in intent and the amount of damage done, injuries, and arrests made.
Yes, I know, that's what "scale" means. And you apparently believe the scale and intent is important enough to determine whether rioters get a pass or not. But the introduction of "intent" into it is in and of itself a bias, when you attribute the intent of a minority to the intent of the majority in one instance, and completely fail to mention intent at all in another instance. Like I said, the only real differences between the two are the scale of the riots, the color of the majority of the participants, and the events that provoked the riots. If someone points out two of those three things as being the most important, while ignoring the third, then the one reason ignored is likely the reason the are singling out the other two. That's a bias, and that's exactly how the press has reported them.

Speaking of "damage done to their own community" in Columbus, it was pretty insignificant.
It's a little late to be speaking of damage now. You had that opportunity in-context and ignored it completely, yet made it a point to talk about it regarding Ferguson. That's a bias. As I already said, that entire paragraph was crafted with a bias, in the same way the press is reporting the incidents. Like I said, I don't know if you did it intentionally or unintentionally, but the more you type about it the less it matters, because you're defending it. The differences between the two riots are very important to you, and in your paragraph describing the differences you showed just how important those difference are, by demonizing one group by showing how evil they are, and virtually canonizing the other group by dismissing them as harmless and innocent.

You really can't legitimately complain about bias in the media when it disagrees with your sensibilities, and then pretend a bias doesn't exist when you agree with it, without being hypocritical.

These stories aren't about of bias, but instead involve the differences between a category 1 riot and a category 5 riot that was spread over several nights.
Yes, I already know you want to give one group a pass, and not the other group, and you'll find your reasons for doing so. That's how bias works.
 

muttly

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Retired Expediter
Turtle wrote--'Yes, I already know you want to give one group a pass, and not the other group, and you'll find your reasons for doing so. That's how bias works.'

It's not about giving one group 'a pass'. It's about objectively looking at the two incidents and pointing out the obvious differences. No one in here is saying that the Ohio State rioters, who broke the law shouldn't be prosecuted. So no, they aren't getting a pass.
 
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muttly

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Turtle, could you provide the Columbus Dispatch report about cars being on fire and a vehicle overturned from this Ohio State riot? Thanks
 

Turtle

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Turtle said:
Not once mentioned was the word "thug", "deviant", "disrespectful", "criminals", "animals", or "pointless" from the throngs of national reports of white people tearing up property for no good reason.
There is so many but here is one--
Turtle said:
'I'm not complaining about the presence or absence of specific keywords'
First of all, attempting to cite a contradiction is not the same as showing where I distorted facts or gave incorrect information, as you allege. Uhm, you can't really cite me as the source to prove that I gave distorted facts or incorrect information. In doing so, you only prove you don't understand what you read. If you want to show that I distorted facts or gave incorrect information, then you will have to cite the "throngs of national reports" that say the opposite of the information I gave. That doesn't mean going out and finding the one Golden Ticket that you can throw in my face, it means going out and finding a significant number of examples of national reporting that contradicts what I said.

Second, stating a fact is not the same as complaining about it. I am not, in fact, complaining about the presence or absence of specific keywords, as I said "in context" I am complaining about how the stories are crafted and presented. The absence or present of specific keywords are a consequence of how the stories are crafted and presented, but they are not even remotely close to being a significant part of the issue. The mentioning of those absent words is simply one of the ways to illustrate a portion of the biased reporting. The rest of that paragraph in which those words appear is the full context of my stating them, and it was in how the stories are crafted.

Like I said, you really need to stop. You don't know what you're doing, but you think you do. You're better off just saying how you feel, that when blacks riot it's really, really bad, and when whites riot it ain't that big a deal, and you believe there is no bias in the press reporting of it all, and just leave it at that, instead of trying to defend or contradict. Because every time you do that you just come off looking really, really, not...good. You throw out allegations and accusations that you can't back up, and when you try it's an oh-my-God train wreck that people can't not look at.
 
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Turtle

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Turtle, could you provide the Columbus Dispatch report about cars being on fire and a vehicle overturned from this Ohio State riot? Thanks
I can, but I won't, for several reasons. I don't have the link and I have no desire to go looking for it. The last time I gave you a source, despite it being your Precious, you still managed to try and trounce it as being unreliable. You flatly stated that no one in this forum distorts the truth more than I, and that I consistently get my facts wrong, and you did so without even attempting to prove it. When asked to do that you responded another unsubstantiated opinion that the OP was ignorantly written, and did so without even attempting to show the ignorance. The one time you've attempted to show that I have distorted facts and gave incorrect information, you actually used me as the source in a spectacularly failed attempt at proof. Me handing you the Columbus Dispatch report wouldn't do anything to help your cause, and would only force you to move on to some other nugget to prove the whole pile of rocks is golden.

Here's your nugget: The original 8:12 second video which showed the burning cars is now a 2:36 video which shows only the tear gas events, and the story has been rewritten completely to reflect the video. Go crazy. You'll have to contact the reporter directly on that one.
 
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