Bad fuel?

CharlesD · Jun 2, 2008

I bought some fuel the other day at a gas station that was selling diesel, not at a large chain truck stop. About 25 miles down the road, I was losing power. The van wouldn't go over 60 mph. I got off the road and parked for a few minutes, started it back up and it ran fine for about 30 more miles then did the same thing. This happened a couple more times until I got up around Waco and then I had burned most of that fuel off. My intention was to buy enough to get to the J in Waco where I could get a fill up and earn half a shower. I got to Waco with about one gallon left in the tank. The mileage was lousy on that fuel as well as the poor performance. I filled at the J there and proceeded on to Dallas and never had another problem. The dealer in Dallas said everything was fine with the engine and that I had probably gotten ahold of some bad fuel. Any other Sprinter drivers have that happen? It was kind of weird. No matter how hard I pressed the pedal, the speed would top out around 60 and when I would park and try to rev the engine, the rpm wouldn't get above 2900. I haven't had it do that since, so I'm just hoping the dealer is right and I just had some bad diesel.

ebsprintin · Jun 2, 2008

Had you done a lot of idling when you were in south Texas? I posted a similar problem in a thread a couple months back. My problem seemed to be independent of fuel, but same symptoms. Dealer couldn't find a problem either. I'm now wondering if something was getting mucked up from idling. The problem has gone away other than a couple minor reoccurrences. During the time it went away I think I was doing less idling because of my location and the seasons. I hadn't made the connection to idling until recently, but haven't had to idle much to check out the idea. Summer may tell. I'm doing the 07 Sprinter thing.

eb

ebsprintin · Jun 2, 2008

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/30607-lose-power.html

links back to the question I originally asked. I'm leaning towards egr valve and idling now. When the dealership was looking at the vehicle and couldn't figure it out, they only had one thing to say--use an additive. I have been using Howe's anti-gel.

eb

CharlesD · Jun 2, 2008

ebsprintin said:
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/30607-lose-power.html

links back to the question I originally asked. I'm leaning towards egr valve and idling now. When the dealership was looking at the vehicle and couldn't figure it out, they only had one thing to say--use an additive. I have been using Howe's anti-gel.

eb

I had been in Laredo for a couple days and I did quite a bit of idling down there with the high temps and all. I hadn't thought of that as a possible cause. I have an '07 as well and I've been using Howe's for a while now. My mpg improved when I started using it a few months ago and I've been using it ever since.

hondaking38 · Jun 2, 2008

in the earlier models 04,05,06 when that happened you had to recharge the fuel filter, directions are in the manual....turn key on for a minute ,turn off then start it, reoeat if necessary.....or drain the fuel filter and re purge....took care of the power loss every time.

CharlesD · Jun 2, 2008

hondaking38 said:
in the earlier models 04,05,06 when that happened you had to recharge the fuel filter, directions are in the manual....turn key on for a minute ,turn off then start it, reoeat if necessary.....or drain the fuel filter and re purge....took care of the power loss every time.

That sounds like what was happening. I would shut it off and restart it and it would be fine. But I haven't had it happen again since that day.

greg334 · Jun 2, 2008

Just a guess, sounds like you may have had some gas mixed into the fuel. The electronics may have taken care of the rough running but the power would have been in the can along with the mileage.

Jefferson3000 · Jun 2, 2008

greg334 said:
Just a guess, sounds like you may have had some gas mixed into the fuel. The electronics may have taken care of the rough running but the power would have been in the can along with the mileage.

Possibly a bit of water, or at least moisture? Never had a problem on a diesel, but on a gasser I had a big problem one time. If you stopped for a few minutes, whatever moisture that was in the line just before your filter would dry up from the heat. Then it would run fine.

Turtle · Jun 2, 2008

For the fuel recharge thing, that was 04 and earlier models. The 05's and later have different fuel filters.

As for the problem, it's not really an EGR valve problem, per se. It's a combination, electronically, of the EGR sensor and the MAS sensor that causes the computer to thing there is a problem with the airflow, so it cranks back the MAS and the turbo to essentially idle loads on the engine. If you have a ScanGauge it'll show 99% load on the engine, and you're maxed out at 60 MPH. You can floor the pedal, and nothing, cause it won't let it give any more fuel, cause it thinks the engine is maxed out already. Ignition off for a few seconds will usually clear it. A number of things can set it off, bad fuel being one of them. If there's bad fuel and the filter hiccups due to water or something, it can cause the error in the ECU and there ya go.

I don't know squat about the 07's and 08's, so none of this may apply to those. But it does to the 05's and 06's, and I think the 04's, cause they all have the same EGR valve. And it's the coordination between the EGR valve and the MAS that causes it.

It happened to me recently, and I had not been idling. And I often idle to recharge batteries, or in Texas, to keep cool. But I had no been idling at all when it happened to me. In fact, it happened nearly 6 hours into the trip.

greg334 · Jun 2, 2008

I know what you are talking about, moisture will cause some problems but the water in fuel light should go on if there is enough.

Gas in diesel is a problem, I have had it happen a couple times where it didn't do damage because there was enough diesel to dilute it but it run like crap and the mileage was for sh*t (like 3 mpg).

Maybe Piper can tell me I am wrong about it?

hondaking38 · Jun 3, 2008

worked on my 05 recharging fuel system and buddys 07

godslove139 · Jun 3, 2008

greg334 said:
Just a guess, sounds like you may have had some gas mixed into the fuel. The electronics may have taken care of the rough running but the power would have been in the can along with the mileage.

boy that is a smart idea..diesel is the bottom end of gas production.Unless he accidently pumped gas into his diesel stright. those glow plugs would have been trashed. You better ask a mecanic next time.We had a new ems employee pump gas into a new rig. Boy that cost money and his job..we had to drian the tank line, and replace all glow plugs in the power stoke diesel engine that had 30,000 miles on it. they probably had a leak in the underground tank where he pumped his fuel getting water from the rain in the fuel tank every time it rained..

redytrk · Jun 3, 2008

Remember, many of the smaller independent fuel sellers are letting their tanks to get really low hoping the price will go down.

This means they are many times pumping water laden fuel from the bottom of their tanks. Best to buy from a high volume chain.

greg334 · Jun 3, 2008

godslove139 said:
boy that is a smart idea..diesel is the bottom end of gas production.Unless he accidently pumped gas into his diesel stright. those glow plugs would have been trashed. You better ask a mecanic next time.We had a new ems employee pump gas into a new rig. Boy that cost money and his job..we had to drian the tank line, and replace all glow plugs in the power stoke diesel engine that had 30,000 miles on it. they probably had a leak in the underground tank where he pumped his fuel getting water from the rain in the fuel tank every time it rained..

Oh god,

A lot of mom and pop places sometimes convert or add isles and use the tanks that held gas before without purging the tanks, leaving some old cr*p gas in the tanks. When it gets low, the water is still displaced by the gas which can end up in the tank of the van. Remember we are not talking about a truck but a van and with 24 gallons (I assume that is what he bought), the mix may have been right to cause poor performance but no damage to the engine. As I said, the electronics has a lot to do with managing problems.

The other thing is if there was water in the system, I don't think he can just dump water out of the fuel separator like on my truck, I can dump a gallon of crud and fuel without any real issue. But with the Sprinter, there is not a lot you can do about it.

AND reading Charles post again, he said it was just that one tank, which leads me to believe that if the system worked right on his van, he would have had a water in fuel light come on and it would have continued after he filled up later on which leads me to believe that there was some gas mixed in the fuel.

ericmoss37 · Jun 3, 2008

Change the fuel filter lately? Try that my truck lost power on hills a few weeks ago and that was the problem.

CharlesD · Jun 3, 2008

ericmoss37 said:
Change the fuel filter lately? Try that my truck lost power on hills a few weeks ago and that was the problem.

Last time I was home, a couple weeks ago.

ericmoss37 · Jun 3, 2008

Some diesel has water in the fuel if you go to a station that sell low volumes of diesel fuel... Check the water seperator and add some Howes. You might just have to take it out and let the water run out. In extreme cases my buddies engine rotted out and the water in the fuel light never came on. He had to have his engine rebuilt because the fuel dealer had water mixed in the tank.

Tom911 · Jun 4, 2008

I had a similar problem with my Sprinter a couple months ago. I was on I-26 in South Carolina and I lost power going up a hill. I was close to a rest area pulled in and called my Sprinter dealer and the service rep told me it probably was bad fuel. I wasn't too far from my drop off so I went on and did not have any problems. I try not to let my fuel get too low so I fill up after running about 250 miles or so.