A Question For Expediting Veterans About Recession

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The news is buzzing with people talking about a liquidy crisis, over-sold real estate markets, declining stock markets, and decling quality of commercial paper, among other troubling indicators. Some analysts are suggesting a recession may not be too far off.

I do not know if a recession is coming sooner or later, but I know one will come. Recessions are part of the economic cycle. Like one season folllows another, recession (economic decline) always follows expansion (economic growth).

In light of the financial news we are hearing these days, I would love to hear from expediters that lived through one, what a recession looks and feels like in our industry. I know there are recession survivors tha are Open Forum members. Would they be kind enough to share?

What is it like to go through a recession? Did you see it coming? Did you see it ending? How did you feel while it went on? How did you survive while others did not?
 

jasonsprouse

Expert Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

The last 7 years weren't a recession? If things are going to get worse I'm gonna go find a box to crawl in.
 

chetjester

Veteran Expediter
Driver
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

To make a comment like that, you must spend your whole day on Air America where they think 4.5 % unemployment is a recession. We've had the best economy for the last 7 years. Thank God for the Republicans and the tax cuts. The government has never had so much revenue coming in.

A recession? Only if you want to take that attitude.
 

Teflon

Seasoned Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

Boy, Chet...you sure convinced me....now be sure and drink some more koolaid before you go to sleep.
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

I don't really know Phil????
Guess I will do as every red blooded American lackey has done or is going to do.
Reinvent thyself.
Peter principal dictates one should rise to the level of their incompetence.
I submit to you that a man should rise to the level of his imagination or dream.
A dream will bring you further in the path of life if it brings you passion.
What we do is merely a stepping stone to the next level and only our heart dictates what the next level will be.
As for me I am on paid vacation making mad cash loving life and embracing the next big slide...

Funny question coming from you...?
What gives??
Mike
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

You know those bad months in expediting where there is no freight, no one gets any loads, no one makes any money? Well, a recession is just like that. And just like in those months, some expediters will do well while others do not. I've had really bad months when others are running like crazy, and I've had load after load during those "bad" months when others were sitting for days and days and not getting anything. Throughout my life I've had great times in the face of a recession, just as some of the lowest times in my life have been surrounded by others steeped in prosperity. And, visa versa. My personal standing has rarely been tied to the financial news du jour.

When enough economists get together and predict a recession, then, by golly, we're gonna have a recession, real or imagined, one that may or may not affect me at all. I've learned that most analyst's predictions should be taken with a salt lick, as their analysis usually points back to something that is self-serving, like the ones who are predicting $100 a barrel oil are the same ones who have serious cash sunk into $100 a barrel oil futures. These are the same analysts who were touting JDSU, Apple, Global Crossing and others just days before the dotcom bubble exploded.

Success in expediting is the same in good times and bad - it's a matter of luck, of being in the right place at the right time. It's educated guesses and calculated karma wrapped up in a kismet of opportunity. It's a recession only if you let it be.

To do is to be. -Descartes
To be is to do. -Voltaire
Do be do be do. -Frank Sinatra
 

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

I promose not to flame, attack, or otherwise put anyone down here Phil.

My previous posts could be summed up from this very question. All I have been tring to do is inform others here these very simple two topics.

Hope for the best.

Plan for the worst, now do not take that in a deep sense that I believe the sky is falling. But if one in business buffers himself, to weather a storm this economy has always come back stronger than its last high.

But one must be able to keep what one has, to come out without loosing business equipment, cars, homes.


To many of us, have debt. Way more than if a tightening in the Economey occurs, would not meet the obligations. (stupidity on the borrower, and GREED on the lender).

The Economey as you stated does turn in cycles, this one will be caused by over lending, to people who have no business borrowing 100% and more on everything they own. If you have recently purchased a truck and financed 100% of it, or a car, or a home, or all of the above. Your gona be doomed recession or no recession. But the Banks love tying up every last spendable dollar of income in us Americans to pay the intrest wheel.

I hope after this little storm blows over, that those left lending $ come up with a program how it use to be no less than 20% down and your not financable PERIOD. Borrowing $ these last couple years has been easier to do than finding a job. US net worth is lower now than before WWII, incomes are at the highest level ever. One would think we would be worth a fortune.

Nice question, maybee for once we can agree on something.

PS a veteran I am not in Expediting, in Business YES hope that counts for something.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

From posts, it seems that not all expediters know the basics. A good introduction to the business cycle appears on the How Stuff Works web site. For the entire article see:

http://money.howstuffworks.com/recession.htm

Excerpt:

"In the United States, the economy follows a somewhat regular pattern of expansion and contraction. The economy will typically expand steadily for six to 10 years and then enter a recession for six months to two years. The point where the recession begins is known as a peak, and the point where it ends as known as a trough. Following the trough, the economy expands again toward another peak. Economists call the period of time between two peaks a business cycle.

"When the nation is in the early part of a recession, nobody knows for sure if it is actually a recession or not. The economy might turn around the next day, which would mean the contraction was just a temporary decrease in activity along a mostly upward track. Economists don't know if the economy is in recession until they can gather data over an extended period of time -- typically six months or more.

"There is no strict definition for recession. Different people consider different factors when making the assessment.

"Some economists and journalists define a recession as two consecutive quarters (three-month financial periods in the year) in which the gross domestic product (GDP) decreases. The GDP is the value of all the reported goods and services produced by people and institutions operating in a country. An overall decrease in the value of goods and services indicates that demand has decreased in most markets. If this is the case, it's a good bet that companies have laid people off, so unemployment is up. Usually the stock market is also in bad shape when overall value is decreasing. In general, the GDP is a pretty good indicator of the overall state of the economy."


Recessions can be short or long, mild or harsh, or something in between. Understanding the business cycle can help expediters make decisions and optimize their profits. For example, if you sense that econoimic expansion (a part of the business cycle) will tend to drive interest rates up, a new truck loan might be better made sooner instead of later.

Visually, I find it helpful to picture the business cycle as a clock face. 12:00 is the peak (top). 6:00 is the trough (bottom). Imagine the clock face having two colors; 9:00 to 3:00 is green, 3:00 to 9:00 is red. The top half (green) represents economic expansion. The botom half (red) represents contraction.

Next, imagine the clock having one hand, not two. The hand moves clockwise arount the clock (through the business cycle), showing where we are at the time.

As I said above, a recession can be long or short. If it is short, the clock hand will move quickly from 3:00 to 9:00 (8 months for example). If the recession is long, the hand will move slowly (2 years for example).

As also said above, a recession can be severe or mild. Image that as the intensity of the color on the clock face. A mile recession would be light red or pink. A severe recession would be dark red. Similarly, a mild expansion would show up light green on the clock face. A strong expansion would show up as dark green.

The above is an over-simplified illustration of the businee cycle, but it is a start for people who do not know economic basics. If you get into this deeper, you will assign color shades between each number on the clock and further divide the clock face into more-specific sections. For the purposes of this post, a two-color, two-section clock face (business cycle model) is enough.

At present, we are in a period of economic expansion, probably somewhere between 12:00 and 3:00. That means a recession (a period of GDP decline) is coming. How soon, how severe it will be, and how long it will last is anyone's guess.

Back to the original question, if you please.

For long-term veterans of the industry that have survived recessions, what was it like day-to-day, during true economic slow times (recessions)? In other words, for those of us who have not lived through a recession as expediters, what do we have to look forward to, and what do we need to do to survive?
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

Ive been thru it all,and cant remember when I didnt make money in this business.It takes a positive attitude,the week will quit, all that are left will make the money they need to survive.
 

bruchar

Expert Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

Hmmmm. Phil, wasn't it you who have referred to the veterans of this industry as not necessarily the people to go to for answers but in reality, might have just gotten lucky to survive in this industry through the years?? You have thrown many of us into the cauldron only to stir us up when your looking for enlightenment.

None of us are perfect. I've made mistakes in the past and have vowed never to let it happen again. I drive practical, economical equipment and keep it in great condition. We have found our niche in this industry and will continue to prosper through hard work, paying off debt while staying true to no new debt. Broom has posted many interesting facts about finances and gives practical advice.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

>Hmmmm. Phil, wasn't it you who have referred to the
>veterans of this industry as not necessarily the people to
>go to for answers but in reality, might have just gotten
>lucky to survive in this industry through the years??

Yes, it was me who refered to veterans of this industry as not necessarily the people to go to for answers. That is because there are successful veterans and unsuccessful veterans. I advocate going to successful veterans for advice.

No, it was not me who suggested that veterans might have just gotten lucky to survive in this industry through the years. I have never said that. Luck has very little to do with business success or failure. Also, being in the industry for a long time does not automatically mean you are successful. It may only mean you have been existing as a street person for a long time, earning enough money for smokes, using the truck for shelter, and fooling yourself and others into believing you have a career.

You
>have thrown many of us into the cauldron only to stir us up
>when your looking for enlightenment.

False characterization. Rejected.

>None of us are perfect. I've made mistakes in the past and
>have vowed never to let it happen again. I drive practical,
>economical equipment and keep it in great condition. We have
>found our niche in this industry and will continue to
>prosper through hard work, paying off debt while staying
>true to no new debt. Broom has posted many interesting facts
>about finances and gives practical advice.

Thank you for getting back to the original question of this thread. I especially like your approach to debt.
 

bruchar

Expert Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

>Yes, it was me who refered to veterans of this industry as
>not necessarily the people to go to for answers. That is
>because there are successful veterans and unsuccessful
>veterans. I advocate going to successful veterans for
>advice.

How do you analyze who is a veteran successful expediter?
What's the criteria? No links to one of your "writings" just a plain answer will do.

>No, it was not me who suggested that veterans might have
>just gotten lucky to survive in this industry through the
>years. I have never said that. Luck has very little to do
>with business success or failure. Also, being in the
>industry for a long time does not automatically mean you are
>successful. It may only mean you have been existing as a
>street person for a long time, earning enough money for
>smokes, using the truck for shelter, and fooling yourself
>and others into believing you have a career.

After 12 years, no credit card debt, small mortgage balance left and our house (appreciated 62% in value since we've owned it). A kid attending a private university in a week. I don't understand your condensation towards people who have been in this industry for a long period of time. What gives?

What ever happened to your move to the other site with your followers? Didn't work out I guess.
 

sixwheeler

Expert Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

With everything going on in the economy today as a result of this sub prime mortgage mess this is a good question. It would take someone who has been
expediting quite a while to answer it. I too would like to hear from some of the old timers on this one.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

> How do you analyze who is a veteran successful expediter?
> What's the criteria? No links to one of your "writings"
>just a plain answer will do.

Here is my definition, as stated on the home page of my web site. No link, just a quote: "Successful Expediter. A person involved in expedited or critical-shipment freight transport (a trucking industry sector) who has personal, professional and/or business goals that are expediting-related; and has achieved or is in the process of achieving them."

What ever happened to your move to the other site with your
>followers? Didn't work out I guess.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say, "...your move to the other site with your followers?" What are you talking about?

Actually, please don't answer that. You are wanting to take this thread down a negative personal path. There is good information here about the economy and how veterans have survived past recessions. Please don't wreck this by going personal. The thread is about surviving recession. It is not about me.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

"Successful Expediter. A person involved in expedited or critical-shipment freight transport (a trucking industry sector) who has personal, professional and/or business goals that are expediting-related; and has achieved or is in the process of achieving them."

Interesting. Interesting that you would define it that way, and then post this...

"Also, being in the industry for a long time does not automatically mean you are successful. It may only mean you have been existing as a street person for a long time, earning enough money for smokes, using the truck for shelter, and fooling yourself and others into believing you have a career."

Just because someone else's goals do not match your own does not mean they are not a success. For some, earning enough for smokes and using the truck for shelter may very well be, by your own definition, a huge success for them. We're all the same out here, you, me and the successful sheltered street person earning enough to get by. We're all out here surviving in one way or another. It's just a matter of degrees. Judge not, for you are no better than anyone else out here, and no amount of fooling yourself will change that.

The way to survive a recession in this business is keep doing what you have been doing, assuming you have been successful (by whatever definition you choose to use) to this point. Specific goals may have to be adjusted, like taking fewer choice loads, but it's still all the same, in that you pick your battles, move to where the freight is, and keep plugging away to survive every day. The strategy never changes, only the tactics.

Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

Phil,
Worried? I don’t think you really are.

Well your question is really a good one but it shows the fear mongers are at it again. Since the ‘mortgage crisis’ started and the stock market made it’s adjustment, I have heard the word recession in almost every financial program I listened to in the last few days.

Big deal, we need adjustments, and the Dow hasn’t really negatively moved as much as they make it out (meaning that the percentage is not as great as it has been in the past) and if people can’t afford their over prices and over mortgaged houses, oh well, I survived and kept my house without work for 3 years, why can’t they do it with a job?

I think that bruchar’s financial situation is the one everyone needs to set as a goal, not thinking any other way can be foolish but that is my opinion. A while ago, right after 9/11 I attended one of those financial disaster seminars and the best position that you can ever be in is very little or no debt at all – that goes for everyday life too.

Which leads me to what Broom said and I think it is the best statement, plan for the worst and hope for the best – a DRP adage by the way. If someone takes that attitude, plans his/her business around it, remains flexible, and sticks to it, they will weather any storm.

I could go into a geo-political/economically-social comparison of the major industrialized countries and where we stand on savings and debt load, anyone? Good I am too tire of writing about kids today don’t even know how to open a bank account let alone save.

As for veterans, times change Phil, the people who weathered the storm of 19whenever can’t explain what to do in these changing times, they may have never experienced hard recessions like the important recessions of the early 80’s and the 70’s where there wasn't any expediting at this level or for that matter the shipping market like it is – so I would say to have anything close to a definitive answer is like asking a child why the sky is blue. By the by, many people who have been veterans have not had to deal with competition in the market like this, so..

About the housing market and such, many people are actually welcoming the housing market to readjust itself after a lot of the inflating of the market with the cheap rates and such. I know that there are already many people making a lot of money on the foreclosed houses and more people will have to take losses in order to get out from under the mess they got themselves into – good for a lot of us in a way. I think it is rather foolish to depend on housing as a short term investment with a high debt load but many people have flipped houses without the financial liquidity and now they are crying about it, housing should be a long term investment.
 

grog111

Seasoned Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

Greg,
You make a very good point. I am one of those waiting fervently for the housing market to "correct" itself. Having myself, after divorcing in the early 90's, lost my home, i have been in a state of contempt, if not despair at the artificial inflation of the housing market. Since 1992 I've seen houses double and even triple in cost. Fantastic i suppose if you're on the supply side but if you're the demander...not so much. The mortgage game has become quite that...a game.
Phil,
I think that maybe the year 2000 or 2001 could qualify as recessionary. I know alot of expeditor's were hurt.Many of my friends went belly up or changed professions. The automotive industry then, and now, drive this industry. It's tough to hedge your bets knowing that for instance, moving to Fed-ex or Landstar to get away from automotive related delivery's won't necessarily shield you because then all expediting company's take aim on the next movable commodity. And fewer commodities move when blue collar America's cash flow is tight.
I think some of the more brilliant suggestion's were, staying liquid and as close to debt free as possible. As you stated most eloquently, these things are cyclical. Sometimes it's just a matter of riding out the bad times. Sometimes it takes years. That's why stocks and bonds and futures and real estate have to be managed with long term as well as short term goals and expectation's. I know of several people who panicked and sold stocks at significant loses just to see those very same stocks not only rebound but gain significant value in just a few short years. Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes...ya gotta just hang tough. And thats a lot easier to do when you don't have a ton of debt hanging over your head. I'm just starting to learn these things myself. And it's been a tough road.
 

GerryGA

Seasoned Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

> We've had the best economy for the last 7 years.
> Thank God for the Republicans and the tax cuts. The
>government has never had so much revenue coming in.
>
>A recession? Only if you want to take that attitude.

I agree its the tax cuts, but be honest...the federal government is more bloated than ever before is this untrue:


""During President Bush's first five years in office, the federal government increased by $616 billion," Viguerie writes. "That's a mammoth 33 percent jump in the size of the federal government in just his first five years! To put this in perspective, this increase of $616 billion is more than the entire federal budget in Jimmy Carter's last years in office."

Now the "mortgage crisis, what maybe 30 percent of the total mortgages are in default....well still 70 percent making payments...Of the 30 percent in default.....how many lived beyond their means, how many took one of them funky loans to pay only on intrest and not on principal?

The news needs to give us some details....
 

joebob1_30132

Expert Expediter
RE: A Question For Expediting Veterans About Reces

Great post...people say you buy and expand in a recession ..got my truck cheap ..repo...unfortunately when people are operating pay check to paycheck things get tight ..they are th first to sink in a recession...the ones who have saved have the ability to purchase their equipment cheap because there are a lot of trucks sittling getting repoed and the market is flooded with more trucks than work..."people just want for someone take this truck off my hands..You get geared up for the turn around,,it always comes back..and you will have payed far less for a good peice of equipment than you would have at the peake... Good economics is not rocket science ..it just take willpower to do the right things..it took me twenty years to get that right...
 
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