2004 Sprinter Limp Mode

[seekerman]

Greetings all! A little background. The sprinter has 510,000 miles on it, but I work hard to keep it in good condition as far as routine maintenance and it's held me in good stead. Two years ago I put on a new turbocharger and EGR valve. Since then I have had a new mass air flow valve put in and the air filter is good. Occasionally in the past it has gone into limp mode, but has always reset when I restarted the vehicle. This usually happens in cold weather. This past Friday I was on a load and lost an idler pulley. Had it repaired the next day along with a new belt. When I drove away from the shop the van was in limp mode and wouldn't come out of it even after many restarts. I took it back to the shop with the words " well, it was fine before you did the repair." The first thing that came to mind my was the turbo resonator. In hopes of a quick fix we started looking for one. In the process we ran across a video on You Tube concerning a bad turbo actuator. We checked for the function of the actuator and it was behaving in the same way as on the video. As the engine was revving we could see the actuator moving, but then it stopped moving. This coincided with the vehicle going back into limp mode. Then we took it for another drive. It functioned properly through the first three gears then went into limp. We could hear the turbo kicking in but go into limp after the first few gears. I'm now in Merrillville IN in the cold. I'm going to take it to a dodge dealership in Valpo tomorrow for a scan but we all know that some of the sprinter techs at the dealerships should really be working on Fords. I'm trying to gather as much information as possible before I have to deal with that. And what better place to go than to my good friends at EO. Can you share your experiences with Limp Mode with me Thanks!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

some hard code violations just can not be reset by restarting....a scan in this case is probably be your best bet....

and the year of is?......

 

[seekerman]

Thanks!! I hoped you would come on board with your experience. I know you've come across just about everything with your miracle sprinter. Could you elaborate? What are hard code violations and what has been your experience with them? What do the specific violations mean? And are there any false positives or other anomalies I might encounter.

 

[xiggi]

What year sprinter?

sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

 

[scottm4211]

Its an 04.

 

[seekerman]

What Scott said.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Thanks!! I hoped you would come on board with your experience. I know you've come across just about everything with your miracle sprinter. Could you elaborate? What are hard code violations and what has been your experience with them? What do the specific violations mean? And are there any false positives or other anomalies I might encounter.

Mines an 05....thing is there are like 3-4 sensors work off the mass air sensor.....if a minor code like say ambient air sensor faults it will usually also say mass air sensor(MAS)and EGR......that is sometimes you really need a good code reader and translator so your not investing in the parts department

Like wrong tail light will trip 3 lights on the dashboard!....LOL

 

[Steady Eddie]

Look at you intake hose, the big one on to of you engine. inspect it all around for splits.

See if you can hear air by the trubo when idling, if you do, it could be the trubo res.

Spray some WD40 over your intercooler and if your engines RPM's go up in one area, could be the intercooler. I had a hole in mine once. It would go into limp mode when going up a hill under load. The W40) will not work at high idle. If you can see your intercooler behind the A/C con., look for any oily spot on it, that's where you hole will be. But this is not a fail that happens often. I would stay on your Intake hose.

Auto Zone will read your codes for free, at least you will have something to go on. Thier code reader will only read what is stored in the ECM. That will save you 78 bucks or more.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

PS...I've been real fortunate...not really had a lot of problems with sensors....EXCEPT the injector system a year before the engine retired...

Dodge/Mercedes..trains a tech to read and start from bottom up...at the fuel filter and up from there.....I ended up changing out the whole system...injector pump, and fuel rail...and unbelievably it was the computer ECM and a short giving out a false reading.....maybe you can avoid costly repairs by remembering to have the tech go the "other way"......

 

[seekerman]

Look at you intake hose, the big one on to of you engine. inspect it all around for splits.

See if you can hear air by the trubo when idling, if you do, it could be the trubo res.

Spray some WD40 over your intercooler and if your engines RPM's go up in one area, could be the intercooler. I had a hole in mine once. It would go into limp mode when going up a hill under load. The W40) will not work at high idle. If you can see your intercooler behind the A/C con., look for any oily spot on it, that's where you hole will be. But this is not a fail that happens often. I would stay on your Intake hose.

Auto Zone will read your codes for free, at least you will have something to go on. Thier code reader will only read what is stored in the ECM. That will save you 78 bucks or more.

That's what's puzzling me Eddie. The mechanic that replaced the idler had a Snap-On (OBDII I think) and no codes came up at all. May have to invest in the dealer scanner. I will definitely check the hose. Thanks.

 

[danthewolf00]

Also check the turbo hoses they do crack and cause problems...check www.sprinter-source.com they pretty much have seen it all.

 

[Steady Eddie]

That's what's puzzling me Eddie. The mechanic that replaced the idler had a Snap-On (OBDII I think) and no codes came up at all. May have to invest in the dealer scanner. I will definitely check the hose. Thanks.

The dealer scanner is over $5,000.00, not counting software updates. It could be something else, other than turbo related. But I think you will find a spilt/hole in you hose. A lot of things can cause limp mode. If it was EGR, you would not be able to get over 65mph.

I have a Actron scanner I got at Auto Zone for around $125.00, It does read some codes and I can reset them to see if I can get the failure to show up. I can also go back in history to see stored codes.
One time I had it scanned and it showed 49 errors concerning the PVC. Those didn't show up on my scanner. The connector was unplugged.

 

[seekerman]

PS...I've been real fortunate...not really had a lot of problems with sensors....EXCEPT the injector system a year before the engine retired...

Dodge/Mercedes..trains a tech to read and start from bottom up...at the fuel filter and up from there.....I ended up changing out the whole system...injector pump, and fuel rail...and unbelievably it was the computer ECM and a short giving out a false reading.....maybe you can avoid costly repairs by remembering to have the tech go the "other way"......

I know Ken. That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. The techs take the codes at face value and, I'm convinced, are trained by the dealerships to go for the costly repair without delving deeper into the problem which could indicate a simpler fix. That's why I'm coming to you guys and why this forum is so great. We can gather information from guys that have gone down that road. It's hard enough to keep our heads above water in this business without giving our hard earned money to the dealerships.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I know Ken. That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. The techs take the codes at face value and, I'm convinced, are trained by the dealerships to go for the costly repair without delving deeper into the problem which could indicate a simpler fix. That's why I'm coming to you guys and why this forum is so great. We can gather information from guys that have gone down that road. It's hard enough to keep our heads above water in this business without giving our hard earned money to the dealerships.

When we got to the ECM and changed it out..I even said to the Tech and he was a great guy...Dave..Why didn't we start at the Ecm first?....Did I just change out almost 3,000$ in parts/labor for nothing?.....he said honestly...Maybe, might have, but that is the way they are trained...
fuel filter= faulty changed it out...still the same, now injector pumps reads faulty, change it out now Fuel rail shows faulty, changed it out...then the ECM....darn it....

 

[Turtle]

If you have a boost pressure leak which causes the limp home mode (LHM), when in LHM the turbo won't function, in order to prevent you from doing some real damage to the engine. When the turbo isn't functioning, the actuator won't function, either, because, you know, the turbo isn't functioning. It's worth checking the actuator lever to see if it's working or if it's frozen due to corrosion or galling. With the engine at idle, if you disconnect the MAF sensor the actuator should move the turbo to LHM almost immediately, and as soon as you reconnect the MAF the vane position of the turbo should return to its normal position. But if the actuator is acting just like the video, i.e., works when not in LHM, then the actuator is fine and there's a leak somewhere else, or there's a bad sensor somewhere. A DRBIII tool will usually point to the sensor.

The mechanic should have the gizmos to check for a boost pressure leak. If there is a leak then you need to track it down. Could be the resonator, could be the hose at the turbo or a loose clamp, could be the large hose on top. A seam crack in the turbo can be the source. Oil on the seama can be an indicator. Cracked intercooler (charge air cooler) aren't common, but certainly should be checked. A loose manifold bolt can allow air to leak.

If your LHM results in only reverse and one forward gear, then it's a TCM (transmission control module) problem, caused by low fluid or any number of other things.

The most likely cause is the large intercooler hose on top of the radiator, since that's the most common failure, but it could be a leak anywhere in there.

 

[seekerman]

Thanks guys. You've given me a lot to work with. Naturally, I'm hoping it's a hose or the resonator or another relatively simple fix. You've probly saved me from experiencing a nightmare on elm street that Ken experienced. I'll let you know how it turns out. Be safe.

 

[Turtle]

If the Valparaiso Dodge dealer is one that's very experienced in Sprinters, they're probably fine. But if they, too want to replace the resonator "and see what happens" because they don't know for sure where the leak is coming from, then my recommendation would be to hobble on over to Gurley-Leep Motor Werks in Mishawaka (South Bend) (or World Wide Motors down in Indy). There are some really good Sprinter mechanics out there at Dodge dealers, but all too often you'll find them to be little more than parts changers. The guys at the MB dealerships truly know how to diagnose these vehicles. You'll pay through the nose, but not really more per hour than at a Dodge dealer, and you tend to get what you pay for at a MB dealer.

Unless you use OEM parts from the dealer. Then you'll REALLY pay through the nose.

 

[seekerman]

If the Valparaiso Dodge dealer is one that's very experienced in Sprinters, they're probably fine. But if they, too want to replace the resonator "and see what happens" because they don't know for sure where the leak is coming from, then my recommendation would be to hobble on over to Gurley-Leep Motor Werks in Mishawaka (South Bend) (or World Wide Motors down in Indy). There are some really good Sprinter mechanics out there at Dodge dealers, but all too often you'll find them to be little more than parts changers. The guys at the MB dealerships truly know how to diagnose these vehicles. You'll pay through the nose, but not really more per hour than at a Dodge dealer, and you tend to get what you pay for at a MB dealer.

Unless you use OEM parts from the dealer. Then you'll REALLY pay through the nose.

Thanks Turtle. I shudder when I think about going to a MB dealership, but it's probly what I'll do in this case. Unless I find something in the hose over the radiator. Appreciate the tip.

 

[Turtle]

Depending on the market, a Dodge dealer will generally be in the $90-$120 an hour labor rate, and a Mercedes dealer will be in the $105-$130 an hour range. It's not that much of a difference when you consider a Mercedes dealer has the expertise that doesn't waste a lot of labor hours.

It's the parts that can kill you at a dealer, although in many cases the parts actually cost more at a Dodge dealer than they do a MB dealer (because Dodge doesn't sell Sprinters any more and MB really sticks it to them on the prices). Ideally, you'd have a really good MB dealer that will let you supply your own parts. Most dealers are pretty good about that. Well, not Freightliner dealers. Most of them require you to use their parts.

 

[Speedwagen]

I'd get back to basics:
1. You were running and had boost.
2. You ate an idler pulley and it took out the belt.
3. Someone replaced the idler pulley and put on a fresh belt.
4. You now do not have boost.

If me, I'd check:
- A "flying" serpentine belt can hit stuff (wiring)- check wiring and harnesses in front of engine.
- A fair amount of "stuff" ( has to come off to change an idler pulley; someone did and did not
tighten/ reconnect stuff- check top boost hose clamps, electrical plug connectors below top boost hose, etc.

It's still light out- have a peek... Good luck. I'll bet it's something simple.