What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the year.

Dreammaker

Seasoned Expediter
While oil is a finite resource, focusing on the long term can blind one to near-term dynamics. There has been surprisingly little mention in the mainstream media of how large the current oil surplus is. The collective view seems to be that this will take care of itself in short order. But that may be longer in coming than most believe.

Some veteran oil analysts, in particular Philip Verlerger, beg to differ. From the Los Angeles Times (hat tip reader Michael):

Downward pressure on oil prices is so great that crude could trade for as little as $20 a barrel by the end of the year -- less than a third of what it traded for this week and an 86% drop from its peak last year, analysts said...

The reasons are simple, said Philip K. Verleger Jr., an expert on energy markets at the University of Calgary in Canada: The still-sputtering economy has lessened demand at a time when there is already a big surplus of oil.

For eight straight months, oil supplies have been running about 2 million barrels a day higher than the global demand of 83 million barrels a day, Verleger said. Eventually, he and others predicted, suppliers will tire of paying to store all of the surplus oil and flood the market.

"That is the largest and longest continuous glut of supply that I have seen in 30 years of following energy prices," Verleger said. "It's a huge surplus. There has never been anything like it."

The market will eventually correct itself, pushing prices down, Fadel Gheit, senior energy analyst for Oppenheimer & Co., wrote in a note to investors. "Excessive speculation and a weak dollar have lifted oil prices to levels not sustainable by market fundamentals," Gheit wrote.

Crude has traded in the range of about $70 a barrel for much of the last month, closing Thursday at $66.73. The markets were closed Friday.

With so much oil available and so little need for that amount, investors, oil companies and even some banks have bought and stored surplus oil everywhere they can. By one estimate, before oil surged to its high this year of $73.38 a barrel in June, as many as 67 supertankers -- each capable of carrying 2 million barrels of oil -- were being used as floating storage.

Verleger said it represented a largely risk-free investment for those who could sell that oil for huge profits on the futures markets.

But the glut has gone on for so long, he said, that the cost of all of that storage is bound to rise. When it rises enough, some suppliers will refuse to pay and a lot of that oil will be dumped onto the market.

"Oil will drop to $20 a ba

rrel by the end of the year because this situation just cannot be sustained," Verleger said.

:)
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

And the point is? Cheap oil means what?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

Doesn't really much matter how low oil drops, since the refineries will simply cut back production further than they already have, which will keep pump prices up.


Incidentally... Lincoln never said any of those things that are quoted in your sig. It's one of the many examples of misquotes one can find on the Internet.

The quotes were first published in 1942 by William J. H. Boetcker, a Presbyterian minister. He released a pamphlet titled Lincoln On Limitations, which did include a Lincoln quote (wasn't one of the ones here, tho), but also added 10 statements written by Boetcker himself.People who got the pamphlet thought the 10 statements were written by Lincoln and they have since been distributed widely under Lincoln's name.

The original list from Boetcker:
1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
10 You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.


These and other fascinating Internet truth debunkings can be found in a book called,
They Never Said It: A Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, and Misleading Attributions: Paul F. Boller Jr., John George.

It is described as "[a]
highly amusing romp through the history of spurious quote-mongering....Boller and George not only perform a valuable scholarly service, they also give us a first-rate detective story," by the International Social Science Review

The Washington Times says,
"This book full of spurious quotes and deliberate misattributions has a lesson for anyone who has ever nodded admiringly at a well-turned quotation that makes a partisan point with stunning effect. The lesson is to be wary of just such marvelous distillations of political wisdom. They're probably fakes....This is...a serious book, written with high good humor and solid research."


For example, Abraham Lincoln never said, "You cannot fool all the people all the time." Thomas Jefferson never said, "That government is best which governs least." And Horace Greeley never said, "Go west, young man."

"An entertaining and thought-provoking book, They Never Said It covers a great deal of history and sets it right. Going beyond a mere catalog of popular misconceptions, Boller and George reveal how rightists and leftists, and atheists and evangelists all have at times twisted and even invented the words of eminent figures to promote their own ends. The ultimate debunking reference, it perfectly complements handbooks of quotations."

Hey, you asked. :D
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

Turtle what you said was my line of thinking.....anyone thinking of a big price break at the pumps are living a dream....

Last report I read refineries were down to 67% of capacity to create a false shortage to prop up pump prices....Wall Steet eats it up!

When one has direct control of supply...isn't that not right?

I can't see supply and demand logic when one can control that supply by simply turning off the pumps...
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

And the point is? Cheap oil means what?

For starters, cheap oil means that the cost of operating your truck goes down. Your carrier can offer cheaper rates by lowering their fuel surcharges. The cost of making petroleum based goods goes down. The cost of energy goes down. These are a few points that come to mind.
 

Dreammaker

Seasoned Expediter
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

Doesn't really much matter how low oil drops, since the refineries will simply cut back production further than they already have, which will keep pump prices up.


Incidentally... Lincoln never said any of those things that are quoted in your sig. It's one of the many examples of misquotes one can find on the Internet.

The quotes were first published in 1942 by William J. H. Boetcker, a Presbyterian minister. He released a pamphlet titled Lincoln On Limitations, which did include a Lincoln quote (wasn't one of the ones here, tho), but also added 10 statements written by Boetcker himself.People who got the pamphlet thought the 10 statements were written by Lincoln and they have since been distributed widely under Lincoln's name.

The original list from Boetcker:
1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
10 You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.


These and other fascinating Internet truth debunkings can be found in a book called,
They Never Said It: A Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, and Misleading Attributions: Paul F. Boller Jr., John George.

It is described as "[a]
highly amusing romp through the history of spurious quote-mongering....Boller and George not only perform a valuable scholarly service, they also give us a first-rate detective story," by the International Social Science Review

The Washington Times says,
"This book full of spurious quotes and deliberate misattributions has a lesson for anyone who has ever nodded admiringly at a well-turned quotation that makes a partisan point with stunning effect. The lesson is to be wary of just such marvelous distillations of political wisdom. They're probably fakes....This is...a serious book, written with high good humor and solid research."


For example, Abraham Lincoln never said, "You cannot fool all the people all the time." Thomas Jefferson never said, "That government is best which governs least." And Horace Greeley never said, "Go west, young man."

"An entertaining and thought-provoking book, They Never Said It covers a great deal of history and sets it right. Going beyond a mere catalog of popular misconceptions, Boller and George reveal how rightists and leftists, and atheists and evangelists all have at times twisted and even invented the words of eminent figures to promote their own ends. The ultimate debunking reference, it perfectly complements handbooks of quotations."

Hey, you asked. :D

Thanks for the correct authorship. I'll change the author on my sig. They Never Said It sounds like an interesting book. Full of hopefully well researched and documented sourcing. I will see if I can find a copy. If you like that kind of thing, you might like Don't Know Much About History by Kenneth C. Davis. He gets into a little debunking of myth, wit, and wisdom.
 
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Dreammaker

Seasoned Expediter
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

For starters, cheap oil means that the cost of operating your truck goes down. Your carrier can offer cheaper rates by lowering their fuel surcharges. The cost of making petroleum based goods goes down. The cost of energy goes down. These are a few points that come to mind.

The Energy Institute of America suggests that there are four inputs for the price of diesel. Crude accounts for 52% of the price. See: Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Update. If the cost of crude goes down then at some point the cost of diesel necessarily will go down. What the analyst in the original piece points out is that now the oil producing countries are producing more oil than is being used. That oversupply of oil is being stored. He points out at some point, his guess is late this year, the need to sell off that oversupply will outweigh the capacity and cost to store it. As the oversupply is dumped on the market, the cost of crude will plummet.

As Pilgrim points out that drop in cost will potentially benefit expeditors. Could be a good thing if it happens.
 
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Dreammaker

Seasoned Expediter
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

Turtle what you said was my line of thinking.....anyone thinking of a big price break at the pumps are living a dream....

Last report I read refineries were down to 67% of capacity to create a false shortage to prop up pump prices....Wall Steet eats it up!

When one has direct control of supply...isn't that not right?

I can't see supply and demand logic when one can control that supply by simply turning off the pumps...

OVM,

There's a good reason refineries are at 67% capacity. The supply of diesel in the U.S. is at a 16 year high. Per Bloomberg:

U.S. Diesel Supply Climbs as Goods Orders Slip: Chart of Day
Share | Email | Print | A A A

By Margot Habiby

July 1 (Bloomberg) -- "Supplies of diesel, the fuel that powers heavy trucks used to move goods across the U.S., rose to the highest in at least 16 years this month, as manufacturing inventories climbed, signaling a need for fewer deliveries.

The CHART OF THE DAY shows U.S. diesel stockpiles rose 28 percent in the past six months, tracking an increase in the ratio of manufacturers’ inventories to sales.

“Inventories are bloated,” said Tavio Headley, an economist with the American Trucking Associations in Arlington, Virginia. “Businesses are not taking many new deliveries, and that has a huge effect on tonnage volumes. The significant drop in tonnage volumes is also having a huge impact on domestic diesel demand.”

Diesel supplies rose 2.18 million barrels, or 2 percent, to 111.6 million barrels in the week ended June 19, according to the Energy Department. That’s the highest level in data going back to 1993. Manufacturers’ inventory-to-sales ratio rose to 1.45 in April from 1.21 in July 2008, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

The ATA’s For-Hire Truck Tonnage Index contracted 11 percent in May from a year earlier. That’s a “historically large” decline, according to a report last week from the group, the largest U.S. trade association for the trucking industry.

Diesel fuel for delivery at New York Harbor fell 56 percent in the year ending in May, to $1.6857 a gallon, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. It rose 0.54 cent, or 0.3 percent, yesterday to $1.8352 a gallon."

If they produce more and it's not used, where are they going to store it and at what additional cost? And with a 16 year high in supply, why would you want to store more? As the original article pointed out, at some point the cost of storing the stuff is going to get too expensive. So, I guess you could say there are two things going on: current supply - 16 year high - and current production - 67%.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

That was my point....Why is the price still over $2.00 a gallon?

Prolly because every worker in the oil patch blue or white collar has gotten a raise in salary....costs have of equipment have risen..the cost of just doing business has risen which is in natural order....Those who think a 20 dollar barrel is going to give us a $1 dollar gallon prices back are living a dream.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

That was my point....Why is the price still over $2.00 a gallon?

Prolly because every worker in the oil patch blue or white collar has gotten a raise in salary....costs have of equipment have risen..the cost of just doing business has risen which is in natural order....Those who think a 20 dollar barrel is going to give us a $1 dollar gallon prices back are living a dream.


You are right and the big difference is going to be TAXES!! There is NO other way to pay for everything that this government wants to buy. YOU, the trucker, are going to pay for mass transit systems, NOT those who use them. There is talk about taxing fuels high enough to get gas into the $5 per gallon range. Get ready! More and stiffer taxes will become the rule, not the exception. YOU WILL NOT GET AHEAD, it is NOT part of their plan. They mean to keep you in your place. Heavy taxes is just ONE tool that they will use.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

You are right and the big difference is going to be TAXES!! There is NO other way to pay for everything that this government wants to buy. YOU, the trucker, are going to pay for mass transit systems, NOT those who use them. There is talk about taxing fuels high enough to get gas into the $5 per gallon range. Get ready! More and stiffer taxes will become the rule, not the exception. YOU WILL NOT GET AHEAD, it is NOT part of their plan. They mean to keep you in your place. Heavy taxes is just ONE tool that they will use.

Thats twice you've agreed with me this morning....I am scared!!*LOL*:D
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Re: What do you think? One man's opinion - oil at $20 per barrel by the end of the y

How would a todays politician word this?

Oh yes.....We are bridging the gaps....;)

There never was a "GAP". You knew instintivly what was right all along. You just just led astray by a kindly socialist government for a bit. Your real self has re-emerged!!! :D
 
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