Where do you get off?

[Turtle]

As can you.

I'm not making a case either way, other than I tend towards your position. All I'm doing is taking a step back and observing the reality of it all

But rights can't be created. They are or they aren't. You may call it an entitlement, which has been created, but that's still not a right.

I didn't, and wouldn't, call it an entitlement. I called it a civil right. All civil rights are created by society. Every one of them. Not all rights are natural (or God-given, if you like). Are you really going to argue that the right to vote is an inalienable, God-given right that exists in the absence of a civil society?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_and_political_rights

 

[AMonger]

I'm not making a case either way, other than I tend towards your position. All I'm doing is taking a step back and observing the reality of it all

I didn't, and wouldn't, call it an entitlement. I called it a civil right. All civil rights are created by society. Every one of them. Not all rights are natural (or God-given, if you like). Are you really going to argue that the right to vote is an inalienable, God-given right that exists in the absence of a civil society?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_and_political_rights

Wow, this new quote system is annoying.

The right to vote may seem created but it's really just an extension of the right of self-determination, the same right to steer one's society as others.

 

[Turtle]

Wow, this new quote system is annoying.

The right to vote may seem created but it's really just an extension of the right of self-determination, the same right to steer one's society as others.

So are you saying the right to vote is God-given because it is an extension from the right of self determination, despite the right to self determination being a created right?

 

[AMonger]

So are you saying the right to vote is God-given because it is an extension from the right of self determination, despite the right to self determination being a created right?

I'd say that self-determination isn't a created right, at least not man-created. Before The Fall, we didn't need self-determination; afterwards, government was created--by God-- out of necessity, but it was any one man having authority over another that was artificial.