The Trump Card...

[ATeam]

The DOJ lied to Newsweek apparently.

That's exactly why I'm cautious about unnamed sources quoted by the press. You never know who they are talking to and you have no way to verify what is being said. And sometimes, what is attributed to these sources turns out to be flat-out wrong. It also sometimes happens what what is attributed to unnamed sources turns out to be right. But when forming my opinion about the veracity of a news story, I always give little weight to unnamed sources.

 

[muttly]

Actually, yes, SOP exactly.

Leaving the lawyer outside while they’re inside searching? Not that I’ve heard. Do you have a source?

 

[muttly]

It appears the opposite is true. Trump's attorneys and representatives (and Trump himself) were not cooperating fully. A subpoena was issued and the partial response was unsatisfactory. So DOJ took the next step and got a search warrant.

Lawyer says they were fully cooperating. Then gap for a couple weeks where they heard nothing and then raid.

 

[ATeam]

It's interesting to note that DOJ did not announce the Mar-a-Lago search before, during or after the search. We learned about it when Trump announced the development. Then Trump talked a great deal more about it, releasing many details that no one could verify but that were accepted as true by many.

In response to the intense public interest Trump's statements created, DOJ said, as did numerous Republicans, that it is very much in the public interest to unseal the search warrant and inventory list. DOJ correctly pointed out that since Trump had so widely publicized the event, there is no harm in keeping the documents under seal and public-interest considerations outweigh any other reasons to keep the documents under seal.

The judge gave Trump until 3pm Eastern Time tomorrow to respond. No word yet from Trump whether he'll object to lifting the seal or not. It is reported that he hired a new celebrity lawyer to advise/represent him in this matter.

My interpretation of these events is that Trump had free reign to control the narrative from the time he announced the search. He used to fund raise. He bashed the FBI. He cried foul about all sorts of things. He lied about events leading up to the search. It seems to me Garland had enough of this so he filed his motion to have the documents in question unsealed. That was the equivalent of a gut punch to Trump which left him sitting on the floor confused; so much so that he hired yet another attorney to figure out what to do next.

Trump does not have the initiative on this. He lost that when he started talking about the search. Now he has three choices: (1) take no action and allow the documents to be released without objection. (2) tell the judge he had no objection, which will produce the same result. (3) Object to the motion and use court maneuvers as long as he can to keep the documents under wraps.

That takes us back to the very question I raised above. Since Trump has had the the ability to release the documents since Monday when he received them, why does he not do so? How does it serve Trump to keep them under wraps?

 

[ATeam]

Leaving the lawyer outside while they’re inside searching? Not that I’ve heard. Do you have a source?

"FBI protocol requires agents to show a copy of the search warrant — as well as provide an itemized list of what was taken after it is finished — but it has discretion on whether to allow the attorney to be present while the search is conducted.

"Bobby Chacon, another retired FBI agent and former attorney, told Insider that the agency can 'keep them out.'

"'In a nutshell, no, they don't have a right to be there,' Chacon said. 'If we want to keep them out, we can keep what we want out while we conduct the search.'" (Source)

 

[ATeam]

Lawyer says they were fully cooperating. Then gap for a couple weeks where they heard nothing and then raid.

It would appear there is more to the story than you or I know. We'll have to stay tuned for more details to emerge.

 

[muttly]

"FBI protocol requires agents to show a copy of the search warrant — as well as provide an itemized list of what was taken after it is finished — but it has discretion on whether to allow the attorney to be present while the search is conducted.

"Bobby Chacon, another retired FBI agent and former attorney, told Insider that the agency can 'keep them out.'

"'In a nutshell, no, they don't have a right to be there,' Chacon said. 'If we want to keep them out, we can keep what we want out while we conduct the search.'" (Source)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557701638856577024

 

[muttly]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557701638856577024

This is the issue. The FBI technically may have discretion to keep lawyers out of the view of the search, but the SOP appears to be to allow the attorney in for the reasons enumerated by Mr Grimm. It has been said that no one is above the law and Trump shouldn’t be treated differently.
But the standard appears to be, according to Grimm, that the lawyer isn’t prohibited from watching the search. In other words, the former President was held to a different standard and the FBI deviated from standard operating procedure to have a lawyer present.
(Mr. Grimm: We “always” let the lawyer to come in.)

 

[ATeam]

This is the issue. The FBI technically may have discretion to keep lawyers out of the view of the search, but the SOP appears to be to allow the attorney in for the reasons enumerated by Mr Grimm. It has been said that no one is above the law and Trump shouldn’t be treated differently.
But the standard appears to be, according to Grimm, that the lawyer isn’t prohibited from watching the search. In other words, the former President was held to a different standard and the FBI deviated from standard operating procedure to have a lawyer present.

If so, Trump can use that as a point in his favor in court

 

[Turtle]

It's interesting to note that DOJ did not announce the Mar-a-Lago search before, during or after the search.

Yeah, they don't announce those things very often. Sure, sometimes they bring along CNN, so CNN can announce it, but the FBI never says much about ongoing stuff.

What I find particularly interesting is, the FBI and the National Archives were so concerned about classified documents being in imminent danger, they obtained the warrant on Friday and didn't feel the need to execute it until Monday.

 

[danthewolf00]

Yeah, they don't announce those things very often. Sure, sometimes they bring along CNN, so CNN can announce it, but the FBI never says much about ongoing stuff.

What I find particularly interesting is, the FBI and the National Archives were so concerned about classified documents being in imminent danger, they obtained the warrant on Friday and didn't feel the need to execute it until Monday.

Well you know they had to get 30 agents willing to raid a former president's home.....

 

[ATeam]

Trump Will Not Oppose Unsealing of Warrant

In a statement issued late this evening, Trump said, "Not only will I not oppose the release of documents related to the unAmerican, unwarranted, and unnecessary raid … I am going a step further by ENCOURAGING the immediate release of those documents." (Source)

While I'm glad he's not opposing the release, the part about "going a step further" is pure BS. Trump has had the documents in question since Monday and he was free to release them at any time.

Above, I said Trump had three options. He made the wise choice. It satisfies the intense public curiosity and of the three options, the one he chose is the least-harmful for Trump personally.

 

[danthewolf00]

AND yes there is a basement at mar largo from what cnn reported.

 

[ATeam]

Yeah, they don't announce those things very often. Sure, sometimes they bring along CNN, so CNN can announce it, but the FBI never says much about ongoing stuff.

What I find particularly interesting is, the FBI and the National Archives were so concerned about classified documents being in imminent danger, they obtained the warrant on Friday and didn't feel the need to execute it until Monday.

I find that interesting too. It seems DOJ took several actions over a number of months to recover the documents in question. Learning more of the story now, I was surprised it took them this long to decisively act.

 

[danthewolf00]

The raid has something to do with papers on nuclear stuff.

 

[ATeam]

AND yes there is a basement at mar largo from what cnn reported.

It seems so. Numerous reports refer to the basement at Mar-a-Lago. Like I said above, that is the first building I am aware of in Florida that has a basement. Every building I have seen is constructed on a concrete slab or pilings.

 

[ATeam]

The raid has something to do with papers on nuclear stuff.

I saw that Washington Post report but it is unsourced and unconfirmed by other news organizations. I'm giving it zero credence. I hate reporting like this. It's not reporting at all. For all we know, it's made-up BS. While it gives the talking heads on TV something with which to fill their air time and stir up their audiences, it does little in service of the truth, and may even undermine the truth.

 

[muttly]

The raid has something to do with papers on nuclear stuff.

Most likely a bogus story BECAUSE AG Garland said in his statement yesterday that he wouldn’t be providing anymore details about the search.

 

[danthewolf00]

It seems so. Numerous reports refer to the basement at Mar-a-Lago. Like I said above, that is the first building I am aware of in Florida that has a basement. Every building I have seen is constructed on a concrete slab or pilings.

The cost to keep water out though......and who would think of a basement in Florida.

 

[ATeam]

What I find particularly interesting is, the FBI and the National Archives were so concerned about classified documents being in imminent danger, they obtained the warrant on Friday and didn't feel the need to execute it until Monday.

As I said above, I find that interesting too. Below is the timeline published by BBC showing relevant developments. This thing went on for months and it continues to develop. It seems to me it would have been better for the government to have swooped in with a search warrant to seize the materials at its earliest opportunity once it was known they were improperly possessed and/or stored.

But that's not what happened. This dragged on for months. Various commentators have offered their speculated reasons for this. While I have my own ideas they are speculations too.

My ideas are: (1) Trump received special-privilege treatment from DOJ because he is the former president. (2) A search of a former president's home and offices is unprecedented. (3) Following a search, the ensuing public opinion firestorm would be huge. And (4), Trump's, court tactics are well known and DOJ is moving slowly and taking extra steps to defeat those tactics in advance of charges being laid.

That shared, I freely admit my ideas are speculative too. Like all other ideas offered, they cannot be validated or invalidated until the situation further develops. And it may be that they can never be validated or invalidated because the info needed to do that will never be known.

• January 2022 - The National Archives retrieves 15 boxes of White House records from Mar-a-Lago, and says some of the documents it received at the end of Trump administration had been torn up
• February - Reports emerge that classified files were found in the Mar-a-Lago cache and National Archives has asked DoJ to investigate
• April - US media report the FBI has begun a preliminary investigation into how apparently classified material ended up at Mar-a-Lago
• 3 June - A senior DoJ official and three FBI agents travel to Mar-a-Lago to review items in a basement and Mr Trump drops by to say hello, according to reports
• 8 June - Federal investigators reportedly write to a Trump aide to ask that a stronger lock be used to secure the room storing the items in question. Trump says that request was quickly fulfilled
• 22 June - The Trump Organization reportedly receives a DoJ summons for CCTV footage from Mar-a-Lago
• 8 August - Dozens of agents execute a search warrant of Mar-a-Lago, removing about 10 boxes from the property