The Stoning of Soraya M.
- Thread starter jujubeans
- Start date
paullud
Veteran Expediter
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
Yes, prenatal infanticide is no less horrifying, and none-the-less murder than stoning a woman to trade her in on a younger model.
I remember a Bible conference at which a Muslim man and woman were brought out to discuss their religion and how they found America so degenerate. They berated the audience about our de-criminalization of prenatal infanticide. They went on for a few minutes, with the man finally shushing his wife because she was getting a little carried away. You could have heard a pin drop in the crowd because here were a couple of heathens shaming them because we as a nation murder our own infants for convenience. Then the scheduled speaker stepped in and introduced the two as a Christian actor and actress who he brought in to play that role. The crowd, while relieved, were still uncomfortable because the truth had been told and it didn't make us look good.
Otoh, there's this:
and this:
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You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
Almost 2/3 of the world's women currently reside in countries where abortion may be obtained on request for a wide variety of reasons, including social, economic, personal, and no reason whatsoever. Only eight countries prohibit under any circumstances. All Muslim nations permit it in certain circumstances, usually to save the life of the mother, but some predominantly Muslim countries provide for other reasons (including the unborn child having medical problems or birth defects).
If the actors at the Biblical conference had been genuine Muslims, they likely would not have berated America for decriminalizing abortion at all. While there is no pro-abortion or actual approval of abortion in the world of Islam, there is no ban on it, either. Sharia law nor the Qur'an addresses the issue in any way. Abortion was widely and routinely practiced in Muslim countries until the late 1800s before outside political pressure forced them make it illegal. Some Muslims believe in abortion at will, others believe no abortion under any circumstances, while others think it should be allowed but with certain restrictions. Sounds familiar. Many of the hard line Islamic clerics and imams take the teaching stance that abortion is perfectly fine within the first 40 days of pregnancy, while the vast majority use the 120 days as the yardstick, because in Islam, the fetus is believed to become a living soul after four months of gestation. But these are teachings and recommendations, not laws they are required to follow. Many Imams routinely facilitate illegal abortions.
The idea of abortion being illegal is a relatively recent one in terms of human history. It's actually a recent one in terms of post-Columbus Western Hemisphere history, which ain't all that long a time. Abortion in America has been legal for quite a few more years than it's been illegal. Nearly four times as many. Until the 16th century abortion was a common practice all over the world, except for a small handful of places, mostly in and around Rome. The idea of abortion being illegal was first put forth in the 19th century by fundamentalist Christians and a few Christian medical doctors (most of whom massaged the Hippocratic Oath to be more Christian, despite the Oath's origins) more than anyone else. And ironically, it was the first wave of the feminist movement where they strongly opposed abortion, during the fight for women's suffrage in the US, where the idea of passing laws to criminalize abortion for took root. And of course in the late 1960s and early 1970 during the second wave of the feminist movement is where, once again, abortion and reproductive rights became those same unifying issues among various women's rights groups across the western world, led by the women in the US and Canada.
If the actors at the Biblical conference had been genuine Muslims, they likely would not have berated America for decriminalizing abortion at all. While there is no pro-abortion or actual approval of abortion in the world of Islam, there is no ban on it, either. Sharia law nor the Qur'an addresses the issue in any way. Abortion was widely and routinely practiced in Muslim countries until the late 1800s before outside political pressure forced them make it illegal. Some Muslims believe in abortion at will, others believe no abortion under any circumstances, while others think it should be allowed but with certain restrictions. Sounds familiar. Many of the hard line Islamic clerics and imams take the teaching stance that abortion is perfectly fine within the first 40 days of pregnancy, while the vast majority use the 120 days as the yardstick, because in Islam, the fetus is believed to become a living soul after four months of gestation. But these are teachings and recommendations, not laws they are required to follow. Many Imams routinely facilitate illegal abortions.
The idea of abortion being illegal is a relatively recent one in terms of human history. It's actually a recent one in terms of post-Columbus Western Hemisphere history, which ain't all that long a time. Abortion in America has been legal for quite a few more years than it's been illegal. Nearly four times as many. Until the 16th century abortion was a common practice all over the world, except for a small handful of places, mostly in and around Rome. The idea of abortion being illegal was first put forth in the 19th century by fundamentalist Christians and a few Christian medical doctors (most of whom massaged the Hippocratic Oath to be more Christian, despite the Oath's origins) more than anyone else. And ironically, it was the first wave of the feminist movement where they strongly opposed abortion, during the fight for women's suffrage in the US, where the idea of passing laws to criminalize abortion for took root. And of course in the late 1960s and early 1970 during the second wave of the feminist movement is where, once again, abortion and reproductive rights became those same unifying issues among various women's rights groups across the western world, led by the women in the US and Canada.
jujubeans
OVM Project Manager
Also on netflix? Did you watch this one?
Jenny
Veteran Expediter
We redboxed it but that was about 8 months ago so it may be on Netflix. I watched it as well. Made me think a lot about the story of where our families.came from.
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AMonger
Veteran Expediter
If I'm not mistaken, they were former Muslims. But this was many years ago, so I don't recall for sure.
The prohibition on prenatal infanticide begins in Genesis, in which, even in ante-nomian days, murder was wrong.
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You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
EASYTRADER
Expert Expediter
If unborn babies are innocent humans, and innocent human life has value, then there is NO justification for abortion and abortion is murder.
However, if innocent human life has no value, then justification for abortion is not needed.
The historical argument that 'abortion was legal longer than it was illegal, therfor it is ok' can be applied to many things, slavery being one, in fact the "historical" argument was the main argument used to justify slavery.
However, if innocent human life has no value, then justification for abortion is not needed.
The historical argument that 'abortion was legal longer than it was illegal, therfor it is ok' can be applied to many things, slavery being one, in fact the "historical" argument was the main argument used to justify slavery.