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The Defining Issue of 2024

Pilgrim

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
muttly said:
Harris position on abortion is too extreme:
thefederalist.com

Democrats Lie About Trump On Abortion To Shield Their Extremism

Abortion apologists continue to deceive Americans, both about Trump’s pro-life positions and the consequence of abortion initiatives.
thefederalist.com thefederalist.com

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Not only is Harris well established as extremist, her campaign is flat-out lying about Trump's position:

"In response to Trump's announcement Friday about how he'll vote on the amendment, the Harris campaign issued a statement saying that Trump "will vote to uphold an abortion ban so extreme it applies before many women even know they are pregnant” and said if he's elected, he will "limit access to birth control, threaten access to fertility treatments and ban abortion nationwide, with or without Congress."

Of course this isn't the first time Democrats have floated the scare tactic that if elected,Trump will impose a nationwide ban on abortion. This is a baseless assertion, but when has lack of factual support ever stopped the Democrat propaganda machine?
During Trump's 4 years in office, abortions actually increased, after steadily declining during the eight years of Obama.

Regarding Amendment 4 in FL, Trump is right to vote against it because it's poorly written and vaguely worded on purpose to allow broad definitions for such items as "women's health" and "health care providers". He should've explained this and suggested the FL legislature go back to the drawing board.
 
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Pilgrim

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
muttly said:
He appointed judges that ruled that states( and their voters) decide on abortion. The way it should be.
Trump’s personal belief is that he’s against abortion but still felt 6 weeks is too short for state law. That position isn’t extreme. It was his compromise position. Extreme is abortions in the last trimester up to 9 months. His choice was between 6 weeks and no limit on months for abortion. Majority of Americans want limits on abortion.
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Spot on. First of all, there's no such thing as a "Trump abortion ban". SCOTUS ruled that abortion rights should be decided by the states - period. The people are deciding and it will take several years for each state to settle on their appropriate legislation. So far this process seems to be evolving satisfactorily in spite of complaining from the extremists on both sides. In 2023 - the year after the Dobbs decision - the number of abortions actually increased.

 
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ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Pilgrim said:
SCOTUS ruled that abortion rights should be decided by the states - period.
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And that's what has abortion rights advocates up in arms. The government (state or otherwise) should not tell women what to do with their own bodies. That's up to the women -period.

There is no such thing as a Trump abortion ban, but there is such a thing as a President Trump who appointed three Supreme Court justices who said states, not women, should decide what women do with their own bodies. Having seen the predicted reproductive-health horror stories come true, the American people are poised to hold Trump accountable for his anti-abortion deeds. Without Trump, Roe v. Wade would still be the law of the land. Without Trump, women in all states would still have their reproductive freedom.
 
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ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Maybe Abortion is the Second-Most Defining Issue of 2024

This graphic comes form today's Iowa Poll. If this state poll is correct, and if it indicates a national outcome, the voters who rise to defeat Trump will be women who vote for Harris in high enough numbers to make the difference.

Per this poll, Democracy is their top issue. Abortion rights are second. This is from one state so we'll have to wait for the post-Election analyses to determine if Abortion was the defining issue of 2024. While I continue to maintain my original thesis, I'm open to admitting its error if that's what the votes say. But for now, I reassert my thesis: Abortion rights are the defining issue of 2024.

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Pilgrim

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
ATeam said:
Maybe Abortion is the Second-Most Defining Issue of 2024

This graphic comes form today's Iowa Poll. If this state poll is correct, and if it indicates a national outcome, the voters who rise to defeat Trump will be women who vote for Harris in high enough numbers to make the difference.

Per this poll, Democracy is their top issue. Abortion rights are second. This is from one state so we'll have to wait for the post-Election analyses to determine if Abortion was the defining issue of 2024. While I continue to maintain my original thesis, I'm open to admitting its error if that's what the votes say. But for now, I reassert my thesis: Abortion rights are the defining issue of 2024.

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Key takeaways from this poll:
  • Only 378 respondents
  • Half of them cite a false premise as their main concern
  • Abortion is a distant 2nd
  • Only 26 of them are concerned about the economy?!
  • 2% (8) list illegal immigration as a concern.
Wonder where they took this poll - at a women's dorm in Ames, IA?
This poll is meaningless.
​
 
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muttly

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
ATeam said:
So you say. Others, including polling professionals say it is highly respected with one of the best track records in the business.
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We see “news” operations throw away their reputations all the time. It’s not far fetched that this wouldn’t happen to pollsters as well.
 
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ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
ATeam said:
These 10 states are voting on abortion ballot measures in the 2024 election
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Voters in seven of the 10 states that had abortion rights on the ballot voted to expand or guarantee abortion rights. But abortion rights advocacy did not carry over to become Trump opposition. So, as things turned out, abortion rights was not the defining issue of 2024.
 
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