Repubicans once again tainted by corruption

[tallcal101]

It's becoming such a common occurance among Republican officials that it hardly even raises eyebrows anymore.Corrupt public officials with ties to prominant Republicans.This time it could spell the end to Giuliani's run.His poor judgement was not only recommending Bernard Krik for Director of Homeland Security,he is responsible for putting him in charge of training Iraqi securtity forces,a miserable failure as well.The gall of Giuliani to try and sell the American people this bill of goods who it turns out is nothing but a common hoodlum go's right to the hearst of the problem 75% of the American population have with the GOP.Time after time, for what seems the last 10 years, one crook after another,one scandle of a sexual deviate after another have come to charectarize the party.They are now clearly defined by the belly of the beast,the dark underbelly of our society.
All the name calling about unpatriotic heart covering and Hillary bashing pale by comparison to the unsavory charectors who keep emerging from the ranks of the Grand Old Party.It speaks to every single thing thats wrong with our country and why America needs a drastic change in leadership and direction.
Giuliani stated it was a mistake to not check out Kerik as thoroughly as he should have.He continues to site the good side of this second rate mobster,as if the list of accusations against him are somehow nulified by his upstanding police work.Please.
It's just one more thorn(in this case an oak tree sized thorn)that will further cripple any message the GOP is trying to get out in their hopeless attempt to be seen as a party that can make difference.
It's a very sad commentary.
In your response,please leave "BJ Bill" (as you so love to call him) out of this.The American people forgave him,why can't you get over it?It has nothing to do with the current situation,and it has been beaten to death 100 times.Bring something new to the table.

 

[JoeMP2]

TallCal... I think you must be confused. The Democratic Party embraces sexual deviancy. They own it(or rather, the deviants own the Democrats). Most galling, the Democrats are proud to fill their ranks with miscreants.
Is there corruption on both sides? You bet. One huge difference is the GOP purges itself of such people when they are discovered.

 

[Bob and Hooligan]

Tall

Apparently facts don't interest the neocons. When confrontd, they respond by calling the libs names.

Oh well, next year we can put them all in consentration camps and practice enhanced interigation on them.

Road Hooligan

 

[Pilgrim]

This latest headline about Bernard Kerik is just recycled news that bubbled up to the surface again due to the glacial progress of his judicial procedure. How convenient to ignore the barely reported news about Kenneth Hsu - the latest Chinese bagman for the Clintons' fundraising racket who was fortunately arrested in CO before he could get out of the country. His network of oriental mailmen and laundry workers has been responsible for over $800,000 in illegal contributions to Hillary's campaign. Then there's Congressman William Jefferson (D-LA) who got caught with $90,000 in his freezer and will probably die of old age before he goes to trial. For those that keep track of the West TN state political scene, the democrats' Ford family continues to be the most corrupt political outfit east of Louisiana, with former Congressman John Ford and his sister being the most recent ones sentenced to prison or jail.

My point is that unfortunately, the Democrats and Republicans seem to running neck-and-neck with crooks and sleazy characters. It seems that this trend signifies the nature of those that seek public office nowadays, instead of being relative to one particular party. Perhaps if some changes to our political structure such as term limits were put in place we would once again see more true public servants instead of career politicians.

By the way, the Democrat voters may have given BJ Bill a pass but there's at least an equal number of non-democrats that certainly have not - they've just tried to forget him. Unfortunately, here he comes again using his wife as a Trojan Horse for another stay in the White House.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

>Tall
>
>Apparently facts don't interest the neocons. When
>confrontd, they respond by calling the libs names.
>
>Oh well, next year we can put them all in consentration
>camps and practice enhanced interigation on them.

Or worse yet, good spelling! :+

Tallcal... I know the doctor told you too much Air America would mess up your mind! Now here you're going back how many years to brag Rudy's name thru the mud? I know... they just indicted the guy. Honestly, I doubt Rudy is clean himself. Anyone with any brains knows crap doesn't get done in NYC without dealing with the mob (unions). The fact that someone in a prominent role, like a police chief, was tied up in mob dealings doesn't surprise me. Does that stain Rudy? A little. Either Rudy trusted this guy, or trusted him not to get caught. Will it hurt his chances of getting elected? Not one bit. For one, Rudy wasn't linked to anything himself (like a good mayor makes sure of). I think you may overestimate the power of the left wing dirt machine. It'll take a lot more than that to take down a hero.

Also... notice I didn't compare anything with the Clintons? I'm saving that for another thread, to see how you defend THEM! :7

-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.

 

[JoeMP2]

Who's a neocon?? As a product of hardscrabble Appalachia, I am of the wrong cultural heritage to fit that ideaology. I am Old School Conservative. Neoconservatism is a fad that will pass soon enough. True conservatism has been hijacked by the neocons and I must say Geo. W. Bush has been a huge disappointment to me. Having served in the military under Ronald Reagan's tenure, we look back on that time with a nostalgic affection. Maybe a real leader will emerge again but I see none among the current contenders.

 

[tallcal101]

I would think that anyone,from either party,who would bring forth such a person as this chubby hood and present him to the world as a possible canidate for Director of Homeland Security is overdue for some couch time with a profeesional head shrinker!!I'm certainly not going to give even mild consideration to whom Rudy may have in mind to assit him in running his White House.For Gods sake.
No,I'm sorry,Hilary is not touting Asian fund raisers or Louisiana politicians(now come on there has not been an honest politician from there ever)to head important,even critical,branchs of the Federal Goverment.What was Rudy thinking????
If you think Rudy can get through this,(by the way how is this left wing mud slinging if it's the truth)I have a big orange bridge out here I'm taking bids on.
So,if not Rudy,then who I dareth ask?It's always darkest bfore the lights go out.
Not sure who was speaking about concentration camps,or exactly how that may have entered the debate,but thats seems a little desparate to me.Perhaps it was a joke that I'm just to tired after 10 hours of riding this desk to get.
I'm outta here.Be safe.
TC

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Maybe mudslinging is the wrong word. What's the word for blowing something out of proportion for political gain?

-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.

 

[greg334]

Tallcal,
I agree with you on this one but I know you know when I say it is on both sides. Larry craig I think is a better example and to me the repubs should clean house and go back to a 'value driven' party.

But rudy there is too soon starting to form his cabinet and I have heard a few paybacks (I mean names) already mentioned that I would not like to see anywhere near the WH. He is not my choice for president by any means but what can I do because I can't see any other repub getting in and the dems who I think would be great are not showing up anywhere.

I would venture to guess that if hillary or obama gets the nod to run the Full Monty to that white house, rudy is the only one that can really run against her/him. I would think that the election will be a dirty one any way you cut it and more dirt will come out soon with the up and coming (premature and stupid) primaries.

As for 'Neocons', please... for many of us, that is an insult.

 

[LDB]

Cal,

You do realize there are equal numbers of dirt bags on both sides of the political fence. What few possibly good options there are unfortunately aren't even running.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Actually, the research done showed a LOT more democrats in office were corrupt than republicans. That, of course, corresponded to the fact there were a lot more democrats than republicans in Congress in the last 50 yrs or so. My problem with it all is that Congress is supposed to clean its own house (like having mice guard the cheese). But yet, ppl like "Freezer bux" Jefferson is still alive and kicking on the floor of the House. No one investigates Harry Reid's or Pelosi's dealings. What are we supposed to take from that? Only republicans are held to the higher standards of being Congress members? If ppl trully want change, then ALL of Congress needs to be held accountable!

-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.

 

[LDB]

You're right. The dems do outnumber the repubs but I figured getting an acknowledgment of even an equal number of dirt bags might stress the limits of Cal's system.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

If that's the case, Leo, then Cal chooses to be blind to his own party's dealings. The word sheeple comes to mind.

-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.

 

[letzrockexpress]

>Maybe mudslinging is the wrong word. What's the word for blowing something out of proportion for political gain?<

I believe that word would be "mudslinging"

 

[tallcal101]

It's by no means my system Leo.You voted this moronic bunch in did'nt you?The posse thats in power has to answer for the mistakes,mis quotes,mis judgements and over all failues of the day.I know,it's really all Clinton and Monicas fault,but with that exception already mentioned(a must on this screwy forum)I stand by my crtique of the current state of Republican douch bag leaders and their friends.
Will Hillary and the new leadereship do any better?I believe they can not possibly screw things up any worse then the gang who shoots at each other.
For those talking about going to Canada,you will not be missed,and don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.
You were never really Americans and if you don't get your political way then pack up your little truck and dress warm and head north.
You will not be welcome back when and if your party comes back into power.Similar to those who chose Canada over Vietnam,maybe a Presidential pardon will allow you back in,but I will certainly oppose it.

 

[greg334]

Tallcal,
Now I am trying to be sincere here and have to say this;
Can you sit and there and honestly say you want to pay higher taxes?

Don't look at class warfare (soak the rich idea) just look at yourself and ask yourself wouldn't that money be better spent in your pocket?

I mean let's look at this realistically, if hillary gets in, she will no doubt force a tax bill through that will raise taxes for all of us and the rich will now be the guy/gal who makes $125K while the poor will be just below $65K to justify a move to socialized medicine (it is happening with that horrible schip cr*p program). This means that the person who wants to employ more people can't and for many of use who revenue exceeds $125K we will not have a lot more taxes to deal with.

Tallcal, is this something you want?

 

[tallcal101]

Greg,you can no more read the future then I can.
Any tax bill that is attached to a budget requires a veto proof vote by congress.The congress will in all liklyhood look alot like it does today.Our taxes were raised by the defacto massive tax decrease on the wealthy as soon as W took office.One of the first things he did.W had no problem taking care of his bedfellows as SOON as he became President.After all, it was their money that he lost then "won"(sic) the 2000 election.Put the burden on the middle class and let the fat cats off the hook.Republican politics at it's best.
In fact,Warren Buffet anounced today that his secretary pays a higher tax rate then him by a factor of 3.He questions this.
To answer your question,if we are paying one third the tax rate of the richest Americans,Houston,we have a problem
If Hillary can do away with the alternative minimum tax(which was Bill's idea and she has committed to doing away with)I'm personaly ahead of the game.If she repeals Bush's reward to his fat cat freinds,she's doing even better,and if she can bring tax's in line with individual productivity,not loop holes of the rich,I'm on board.W has squandered a trillion dollars on "his"war"(mistakenly called the war on terror). Americas infrastructure is crumbling,and we are less safe then before he wasted all this money,TAX PAYERS MONEY.
No Greg,the last thing I'm personaly worried about is taxs right now.I'm far more worried the next bridge I drive across is going to fall down,or that Osama,the cave dwelling miestro of the our destiny,may have the last laugh.If the only thing that concerns you about the next election is taxes,I think you need to rethink your priorities.The enemy is winning the war,and we are unready to deal with a major terroist blow to our country.This guy has wasted all this money to put us in jeapordy.Good job Georgie boy.
By the way,the new Ambassedor to the Netherlands is non other then the former CEO and Chariman of Nationwide Mortgage,a close personal friend of Ws.Bush was so happy to make the appoinment in a very silent manner.Whats the old saying from our teenage years,SBD?Something smells pretty foul around here.Mr. Sub Prime is being rewarded by the King of Amreica for his wonderful job in tossing Amricans out of thier homes.
A complete and total change from top to bottom is required and the American people have mandated nothing less.Hillary bashers are welcome to head north and be "correct".Who cares.

 

[greg334]

Tallcal,
I am just going to focus on taxes for this post, if that is ok with you?

See here is the thing if the AMT goes away, it will have to be replaced with another tax to ensure that the 'lost' revenue on the federal side is flowing in. Any correction in the tax code to eliminate the AMT will have to be followed up by an increase in the number of tax brackets and a shifting upwards of the percentages - 35% will now have to become 41%.

If we have a democratic congress with a democratic president, we face a serious issue of increasing spending on the social side, some but not a significant decrease of spending on the defense side and no way to hold the democratic congress to their promise of disclosing ‘ear marks’ for all to see. This is what I fear with the top three dems who are running, they will think that they have a green light to do anything with the backing of the congress and there will be Veto proof legislation going through the congress - almost a sure thing. If we get a republican congress out of the 2008 election with a dem president, ok maybe there is a chance of not having a tax increase as much as people have been predicting.

But with that said, if you look back in the past with taxes, I think that the Bush tax cuts really were not a real problem but made up for propaganda, it lowered the top bracket (by the way I hit twice) from 39% to 35% and but the across the board cuts helped a lot of people in the lower tax brackets, lowering the average tax bill for lower incomes a lot more than what was ever reported. But again, Bush #1 had only three brackets with the top being 31% and Clinton reintroduced a 39.6% top bracket with an increase of the brackets from 3 to 5 to 6.

I strongly feel that if the tax system was to go after the rich, then we need to use Buffet’s path to wealth as an example of how to get the taxes out of them. He has for the most part paid 0% taxes on anything he gets and has for years. Close those loopholes, not the ones that affect us and help us. I heard his comments about the death tax and his secretary so it comes to no surprise that he, like Gates, Kennedy, Fords, Rockefellers and others pay nothing in income or even capital gains taxes but preach that is it alright to tax us more. (By the way the people who actually benefited from the cap gains and dividend tax decrease has been retirees more than the rich.) If Buffet really wants to help out, then he needs to go back through his records, whip out that check book and pay to the US treasury the amount of money he should pay for what he earned it at the rates when he earned it, will he? I doubt it but it illustrates another form of hypocrisy that has been in the forefront of the hate rich crowd.

How can you justify raising income taxes when they, the rich will not pay a dime in taxes at the same time the poor trucker who made $250K is considered rich? Do you think we need to go back to the pre-Kennedy tax system with 24 brackets and the top bracket being 91%?

To me I would love to see people like buffet pay taxes, I would love to see gates pay taxes, I would love to see Billy Ford pay his taxes but I can’t see this happening with the present tax system we have.. ever. Having a few comprehensive classes in tax history, tax comparison and reform 10 years ago, I don’t see the equality in this system as many are made to believe exists and don’t see what people actually think as a winning situation when we continue to see who the system really hurts.

So I ask you another question, and I am sincere in asking this, would you like to see everyone pay taxes that are fair to the entire population at the same time allowing people like you or I to keep their money and use it to help make more money and employ more people?

 

[Black Sheep]

I sometimes wonder what Warren Buffet is trying to accomplish with these statements regarding his tax rate compared to his secretary's. He doesn't bother to mention that our current system taxes income and earnings, not wealth. Most of his wealth is in stocks & bonds, and the money he earned to buy these investments has already been taxed once, probably at a higher rate than the income of his secretary. If his conscience is bothering him, maybe he should liquidate some of his holdings in Berkshire Hathaway and pay the required capital gains taxes to relieve his guilt. Having done that, if he's still having trouble sleeping at night he might consider using the profits from the sale to set up a charitable foundation of accountants that assists free of charge middle-class taxpayers in the arduous task of preparing income tax forms. This foundation should also provide tax accountants and lawyers at no charge to any middle-class individuals that are enduring the nightmare of having their personal or small business tax returns audited by the IRS. Just alleviating these two most stressful events of the average person's life should have Warren back to a carefree state of mind, having actually done something substantive for little people like his secretary and paying more taxes to his greedy congressmen.

 

[greg334]

Black Sheep

The one thing that people don't realize that Buffet made money on buying up companies and turning them around. What better opportunity for his friends than to have increase taxes and a number of businesses to start going under and they take them under a bigger umbrella to make them profitable.