Military Commisions Act of 2006

[stanleyshenko]

On October 16, 2006 President Bush Signed the Military Commisions Act. Here is a great commentary from MSNBC on that act:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ao0RrXHZEk&eurl=]

Republican or Democrat, you have to be concerned with the loss of American freedom contained in this legislation.

Stanley

 

[greg334]

Listening to Olbermann’s rant and idiotic statements reminds me that we as a people are just lazy and dumb.

I am getting tired of the press (yes including FOX) telling me what I am supposed to think. His points could be better put but he is an idiot and should not be on the air.

I am still trying to figure out what rights we have lost with this? We lost more rights with the torture act that McCain came up with and with the McCain - Finegold law.

Honestly I don’t think that this went far enough. We have a big problem in this country, we allow terrorist to have rights. We need to repeal McCain’s torture law and a few others, go back to the position that we need to protect our citizens instead of worrying if we violate some treaty. More or our fellow citizens could be killed – I think that is more important than some terrorist sitting in Cuba and enjoying a better treatment than most urban school children will ever experience.

Why have we gotten so dumb and lazy?

We allowed the blurring of what an immigrant, foreigner and a citizen are.

We allowed the cheapening of citizenship in the country where now a person who can come here and not be productive, be sick or be against our country to enter and become a citizen.

We allowed the press to be out of control and unaccountable, especially in regards of our safety. Many of us believe the press as credible and truthful.

We allow organizations to become the watch dog of people’s rights that neither belong here nor are actually here. Speaking of the ACLU and the lack of concern over their position that a non-citizen is far more important that a citizen. They should have been fighting for our property rights at the Supreme Court and helping the many cases of true free speech fights going on.

We have lost most of our ethics and standards to become more tolerant of a double standards that are applied to our elected officials. In turn we deserve what we have in congress and if and when the dems win, we deserve more of rights and money taken away to punish the successful and reward the stupid and plain lazy.

We tolerate a political party that claims to be a party of compassion and diversity but supports hate and racism. I am talking about the dems, a few on Air America and a few more who are openly racist and disgusting. The party has always stood for racism and oppression and the campaign in Virginia proves that, the country should move forward not backward and with the dems it will go back to a more oppressive position. We in this country should not tolerate anything like this but a lot of people must think it is acceptable because they donate a lot of money to them.

We also tolerate people like Jimmy Carter, McCain, Murtha and Kerry – all who are an embarrassment and traitors to our country and truly need to be ignored.

Remember that the biggest issue we face is the most important right that has been taken away, Propety Rights. Until many of us start to realize that this is "THE" ultimate right and the foundation of all the other rights we enjoy, it will continue to lower the country to the level of many of the countries who have little freedoms.

I could go on and on but after watching Olbermann, I am now sick to my stomach.

 

[ACW4478]

If Olberman wasn't good enough, how bout Kevin Tillman brother of Pat message about the War.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/


It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.





Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples†in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow†was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.





Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,

Kevin Tillman

 

[stanleyshenko]

I for one am neither lazy or dumb (but don't ask my wife about that last one).

What rights have we lost with this Act? How about the biggie of them all: Habeas Corpus.

When a president can declare me or any other American citizen an enemy combatent and then say I can not appeal to the courts for release or a fair trial I would say we, America, are in big trouble.

I don't support terrorists or terrorism. Never have and never will; and I don't care who they are or what their nationality is.


Stanley

 

[tallcal101]

At least there is one other Californian that see's the light.
Stay tuned into Bill O Greg,we like you better in the dark with blinders on.

 

[greg334]

Well I had a nice reply for you stanley but it got lost - dont ask.

First thing is that we have more to worry about than this law. Your fears are well founded but you miss one important point - we already lost a lot of rights by allowing laws, court cases and things like FISC to exist. You should be worried that terrorist can bring cases to court and that there has been lawyers passing messages back and forth between terrorist. you should be worried that we are not pursuing the leaks that are taking place of secerts, most of these leaks help the terrorists. The leaker should be found, tried and executed for treason.

We already have laws used to do some really nasty things, but this is getting a lot of press because of the hatred for anything Bush. Read the law, it is a compromise and is really weak.

I am afraid that if the Dems get into any power before they can rebuild their party and remove the kerrys, sheehans and moores - we will have a dismantaling of things, we will have more restrictions on more than fire arms and we will be hit again by another terrorist attack because we will be and appear to be weak.

Tallcal,
I just got to tell you that here in Michigan and many other states the DNR has the right to come into your home, car or any property without a warrant and seize weapons, fishing gear, food that you have and just about anything else under the guise of protecting wildlife. I have not only experinced this but was told by a judge the laws and how it works. Even trying to bring it to the federal level, it was fruitless.

 

[tallcal101]

Happy Sunday Greg.Do you see my point about legislating against some items on a federal level,and allowing other equally dangerious items to be licensed?
It seems very crazy to me that my stupid little collection(there's no way to get thse items classified as collectables)are felonies yet a 357 Magnum is perfectly legal as long as some easy to forge paperwork is completed.I'm not really worried about cops busting in at this point,and these items are well stored(out of reach of anyone,including my grown children).
My point is,from an ethical stand point,the killer of the Amish children only commitd a misdamenor by showing up on campus with a legally registered firearm.Had that been the extent of his crime,he probably would have been released and sighted,similar to a speeding ticket.
It was not until he threatened and or killed someone that the felony occured.But mearly having my items in my house is grounds for prison time.The new homeland security agenda is specific about switchblade
knives.Infact,I have moved both collections off site,and am considering getting rid of them.The same cannot be said about private fireams collections,no matter that some of these"collectors"are better armed then most police departments.
It has become a very hot issue for me since the executions style killing of those brave young innocent girls.It is my new crusade. I'm no Micheal Moore,just an outraged citizen,who would like to see a rational approach to hand guns ownership.

 

[LDB]

>would like to see a rational approach to hand
>guns ownership.

We already have a rational approach to inanimate objects. Inanimate objects are just that, inanimate until used by a person, whether knives, shovels, blenders, ladders, wallets, keys or any of the thousands of other inanimate objects including guns. Inanimate objects are a possession and the possessor is expected to behave in an honorable and legal fashion. What we need are concerned citizens doing something about criminal misuse of inanimate objects, not irrationally seeking to infringe on the nearly 100% of inanimate object owners who pose no threat to anyone except the 0.0X% who abuse their right, whether it's a firearm or a car driven by a drunk. Do not dare say it is ok to infringe on gun owners for the criminal action of a few unless you also equally infringe on ALL vehicle owners and operators for the criminal action of a larger percentage of drunks. You also must surrender all knives because a few abuse those. No more baseball bats since a few use them as weapons. The list goes on. All or nothing and just to eliminate any doubt it's ridiculous to consider taking away cars and baseball bats just as it's ridiculous to consider taking away guns.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[greg334]

Good evening TallCal.

Well, I do see your point and Leo’s also for that matter but let’s step back on the subject for a moment to the real problems.

The laws are only as good as the enforcement of the laws. I mean that until we get serious about true court reform, reinforcing a proper law enforcement attitude and get back to a good mental health system, we will continue to have more problems hence adding more laws and more restrictions are not solutions. The last item in that list is the most important. Until the late 1960’s, we have a system that allowed us to hold people who were real threats to all of us. Until we put back in a mental health system that allows us to find people who are unstable and deal with them by giving them proper treatment and if necessary out them away so they will not hurt themselves or anyone else, we will have to deal with these problems.

Now with that said, I don’t take the libertarian’s view of gun ownership as much as I don’t take the NRA’s view – even though they are about the same. I strongly believe in weapon’s being only available to those who are capable of handling them and also believe in very strong sentences for those who commit crimes with a weapon – armed robbery is a crime that should have a very stiff mandatory sentence. The idea of convicted felons having access to weapons is as bad as them having the right to vote.

I also believe that background checks and other safety measures should be uniformed among all the states. I think that this is one thing that was good about the Brady bill – even though the rest of the law didn’t do a thing for us, this did. I think that the system is still a long way off to becoming a system that really works but I also think that it was built like the voting machines – only a few companies were selected to get the job done, ignoring real talent and real solutions.

I have a big problem with some who think they are ‘hunters’. Not because of the poor little Bambis or Bunnies who are ‘harvested’ but rather the lack of education and practice of the hunters themselves. I have had to deal with idiots who only handle a rifle or a shot gun once a year – hunting season. Many are really unsafe and I am really surprised that they haven’t killed anyone. A lot of seniors, who can’t see to begin with, go hunting and that alone is scary – I was shot at by a group of them last time I went hunting deer.

 

[LDB]

>believe in very strong sentences
>for those who commit crimes with a weapon – armed robbery
>is a crime that should have a very stiff mandatory sentence.

Armed robbery, and any other crime committed with a weapon of any sort, not just a firearm, should have a sentence of capital punishment. Armed felonies are not committed by accident and shouldn't be punished as if they were. It's ridiculous to continually increase the infringements on honest people to attempt to reduce the criminal actions of the few. Criminals are just that and will never be stopped by infringing on the honest citizens no matter how many restrictions are forced on the honest majority.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[tallcal101]

How interesting it is Leo that so many of the child killers are pillars of the community,Church elders,and quiet.Until the day they go off.And what is the first thing they grab on the way out the door,not the baseball bat,not the shovel, thats for sure.It's the oh so well hidden from the children hand gun.THE GUN LEO!!!!These are not crimianls,or people with a history of violence.They are our neighbors,our fellow church members,the guy down the street.The big difference between him and the guy in Australia,or Canada who decides it's the day to go crazy and execute children is the gun in the safe.No gun,no execution.Seems pretty clear to me.
So you stand tall for your right,as I know you will,and when a neighbor executes kids in your community,and everybody acts surprised at how this mild mannered person went nuts,see if the argument carriers water with the victims family.Perhaps in your neighborhood it will.But not in every neighborhood in this country,I can assure you.

 

[greg334]

TallCal,

You said; "The big difference between him and the guy in Australia,or Canada who decides it's the day to go crazy and execute children is the gun in the safe.No gun,no execution.Seems pretty clear to me."

Well I can't speak for Australia, but Canada has a problem with gun crimes - not a big problem but still a problem. I also see the UK is also having a problem too - but that is for another time.

I remember not to long ago that some poor Canadian fellow took a hand gun and killed a family. I don't remember much of the details but remember that it was big news. I know that Windsor lost a LEO a while back due to someone shooting him. I also know that the US is blamed for the amount of weapons going over there but I think that there was some Native Americans who were caught transporting weapons over the border some time ago.

of course you don't hear about these things too often.

Oh yea, what's up with Harry Reid? Did you get into his land deal too? I really wish he and hillary would write a book, "how to make millions in real estate and cattle futures" because I need to make some good prudent investments. just messing with you....

 

[ACW4478]

"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

The 20 Most Corrupt Members of Congress
Sen. Conrad Burns (R-MT)
Sen. Bill Frist (R-TN)
Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)
Rep. Roy Blunt (R-MO)
Rep. Ken Calvert (R-CA)
Rep. John Doolittle (R-CA)
Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL)
Rep. Katherine Harris (R-FL)
Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA)
Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
Rep. Gary Miller (R-CA)
Rep. Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
Rep. Richard Pombo (R-CA)
Rep. Rick Renzi (R-AZ)
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX)
Rep. John Sweeney (R-NY)
Rep. Charles Taylor (R-NC)
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Rep. Curt Weldon (R-PA)


Dishonorable Mentions
Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT)
Rep. Dennis Hastert (R-IL)
Rep. J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ)
Rep. John Murtha (D-PA)
Rep. Don Sherwood (R-PA)

Oh, I forgot these guys, most of whom have been indicted.

 

[Broompilot]

Reply, "he would have been charged with a misdiminer for showing up on a school ground with the gun"....THIS is how Tcall TWIST and turns stories to HIS point of view. Your so wrong, nicest way I can say what I want to say without it being deleted.

Think about what you stated MISDIMENER..... NO jail time big time jail time. This country throws first graders out of school for bringing a plastic butter knife in ones lunch bag. If your gona throw stones get your facts straight... This is what I do not care about your posts, you do not back it up with facts only Your left point of view.

Educate me do not insult our intellegance if your gona post know your facts and back them up with proof and not assumptions as you stated in the above quote.

 

[greg334]

>"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."
>
> The 20 Most Corrupt Members of Congress
>Sen. Conrad Burns (R-MT)
>Sen. Bill Frist (R-TN)
>Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)
>Rep. Roy Blunt (R-MO)
>Rep. Ken Calvert (R-CA)
>Rep. John Doolittle (R-CA)
>Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL)
>Rep. Katherine Harris (R-FL)
>Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA)
>Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
>Rep. Gary Miller (R-CA)
>Rep. Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
>Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
>Rep. Richard Pombo (R-CA)
>Rep. Rick Renzi (R-AZ)
>Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX)
>Rep. John Sweeney (R-NY)
>Rep. Charles Taylor (R-NC)
>Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA)
>Rep. Curt Weldon (R-PA)
>
>
>Dishonorable Mentions
>Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT)
>Rep. Dennis Hastert (R-IL)
>Rep. J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ)
>Rep. John Murtha (D-PA)
>Rep. Don Sherwood (R-PA)
>
>Oh, I forgot these guys, most of whom have been indicted.


Don't forget Pelosi and her husband's connections - this is as bad if not worst than a few of the top people on your list.

AND

Don't forget any of the remaining Keating Five, they should have all gone to jail.

 

[ACW4478]

The Republicans are still ahead. I didn't include Foley and the fall out that will come from that mess and Curt Weldon.

Fair and Balanced!

 

[greg334]

Well you are right about the list but you left out McCain. Read some history man, the Dems have had a long history of coruption and subversion - they are the destroyers and they are the party of hate, they are the people who want to make all of us slaves. They would rather have the thought police come and take you away in the middle of the night than to allow you or your family to express yourselves. Don't belive me? look at what they are saying, the laws they want, the taxes they want to raised on all of us and the restrictions they want to have. Can't think bad thoughts, you will never see the minority report.

No one party is the good party and politics is a business that most of us don't understand and many can't stomach.

I rather have some coruption than to have the country sold out from under us or laws that take rights away - like we have had in the 90's. We survived Janet Reno and her orders that were justified under 'it's for the children' so we will survive with this Military Commisions Act of 2006.

I guess after listening to a lecture on our founding fathers and the present political system, we have come a long way to destroy their work and today we can't imagine what true freedoms are all about.

 

[ACW4478]

You're right both parties have corrupt members, but there is an election coming up that could purge all of the corrupt ones from BOTH parties and start fresh. Corruption is Corruption no matter what your party affiliation is.