Mercedes sued over emissions (vw over again)

brokcanadian

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Anything blue-tec. It's at the stage now where epa is doing a review and has requested the information on how Mercedes-Benz does testing. The lawsuit by owners is a separate thing, dangerous to operate, the one test result being quoted is 8-19 times allowable nox in low temperature testing. It was mentioned that they appear to use similar equipment to VW for certification

A Web search gives all the links to read up from every news outlets . . I've got a 2005 not too worried
 

beachbum

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
The way I read the story, is this person read that MB said in a article they turn off the emissions, in Europe, so goes the story and this person starts a lawsuit in the US without any proof they donthebsame thing here.

I hope people understand here that drivers are trying to turn off the emission controls on sprinters and big trucks when the warranty is up for better MPG.

I also know people are trying to buy those dirty VW's just because their emission controls are off.
 

brokcanadian

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I never followed past the headlines, do the owners of the vw's fail emissions and have to park them?
Agreed on emissions. One of the first things I'll do is tune out the egr on my 05
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Sprinters are named, at least in the newest lawsuit filed in April. ML 320 and 350, GL 320, E320, S350, R320, E-Class, GL-Class, ML-Class, R-Class, S-Class, GLK-Class, GLE-Class and Sprinters fitted with a BlueTEC diesel engines are involved.

CO2 and other emissions are directly related to how much fuel is burned, so those emissions don't vary a whole lot unless the efficiency of the engine is drastically different. If the "real world test" is within 15% of the MPG of the EPA or European standard testing, then all other emissions should be within 15%. And they generally are. But NOx is different, as those emissions will vary a great deal depending on if you run the engine at different loads, temperature, altitude, with fuel additives or impurities, etc. In real world conditions you expect the MPG and CO2 to be not as good as the label states, you still expect it to be within an acceptable range. But with NOx you really can't expect real world conditions to match that of the laboratory conditions.

With no emissions controls whatsoever, at a constant engine load and an ambient temperature of 80° F the NOx emissions will be one thing, but change only the temperature down to 40° F and the NOx emissions are likely to jump 20, 30, 40 times what it was at 80°. So it shouldn't come as any surprise that an engine with emissions controls in place would do the same thing. The EPA testing procedures can found here. You'll see that the testing is done between 50°-60° C (68°-86° F) and is run for 11.04 miles at speed varying between 21.2 MPH and 56.7 MPH.

VW used a software component to cheat the testing procedures, and it appears that because the MB NOx emissions in real world tests don't match that of the testing procedures, the claim is that MB used a similar device the same way VW did, to cheat the tests. The Netherland’s official automobile inspector TNO, on behalf on the Dutch Minister of the Environment, conducted an on-road tests of a C-Class Mercedes C220 TDi BlueTec diesel and determined it emitted more than 40 times the amount of cancer-causing NOx than in the lab test. Not surprisingly, the on-road tests were done at temperatures below 10° Celsius (50° F). Mercedes says it is permissible for the BlueTec engine to emit 40 times more NOx when the temperature is less than 10C (50° F).

All car makers cheat (probably). Opel (German subsidiary of GM) recently got caught cheating on NOx and CO2 emissions, but I don't know that MB is actually cheating on this one. They aren't using a defeat device to get around the laws, they simply turn off the emissions controls at the point where the laws don't apply. LOL

I think at the very least the testing procedures are gonna change so that testing down to probably 32 degrees is going to be required. I mean, during the winter half of the US doesn't get above 50 degrees during the day. In The Netherlands they get above 50 degrees only about 4 months out of the year.
 
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brokcanadian

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
For the courts I guess. Makes for interesting reading on my weekend off

I'm waiting for the transits to drop in price. My Ram Van cng has been certified as an ultra low emissions vehicle in each year it was produced. I like diesel, but propane in Canada and cng in US have usually been half the price per gallon, with the bonus of no emissions junk....2003 ram 5.2 has a pcv and NOTHING else not even an egr valve
 
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brokcanadian

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
It's so new I can't even post a link yet (yahoo news app) but VW reached an agreement . . . buyback offer on 420000 vehicles and payment to an "environmental remediation fund" guess they're going to buy one huge vacuum cleaner and filter and suck all those emissions back out :p

IF mercedes is found guilty and IF they were cheating this gives an indication of what to expect
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'll bet that few VW owners will want to take advantage of the buyback, or use the option to have repairs done. A new (or repaired) one won't drive the same, won't have the same performance.
 
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