Leo WWJD?

mcbride

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
There is no such thing as a "Christian politics." If it is a politics, it cannot be Christian. Jesus told Pilate: "My reign is not of this present order. If my reign were of this present order, my supporters would have fought against my being turned over to the Jews. But my reign is not here" (John 18:36). Jesus brought no political message or program.

This is a truth that needs emphasis at a time when some of America's Democrats, fearing that the Republicans have advanced over them by the use of religion, want to respond with a claim that Jesus is on their side. He is not. He avoided those who would trap him into taking sides for or against the Roman occupation of Judea. He paid his taxes to the occupying power but said only, "Let Caesar have what belongs to him, and God have what belongs to him" (Matthew 22:21). He was the original proponent of a separation of church and state.

Those who want the state to engage in public worship, or even to have prayer in schools, are defying his injunction: "When you pray, be not like the pretenders, who prefer to pray in the synagogues and in the public square, in the sight of others. In truth I tell you, that is all the profit they will have. But you, when you pray, go into your inner chamber and, locking the door, pray there in hiding to your Father, and your Father who sees you in hiding will reward you" (Matthew 6:5-6). He shocked people by his repeated violation of the external holiness code of his time, emphasizing that his religion was an internal matter of the heart.

But doesn't Jesus say to care for the poor? Repeatedly and insistently, but what he says goes far beyond politics and is of a different order. He declares that only one test will determine who will come into his reign: Whether one has treated the poor, the hungry, the homeless and the imprisoned as one would Jesus himself. "Whenever you did these things to the lowliest of my brothers, you were doing it to me" (Matthew 25:40). No government can propose that as its program.

The state cannot indulge in self-sacrifice. If it is to treat the poor well, it must do so on grounds of justice, appealing to arguments that will convince people who are not followers of Jesus or of any other religion. The norms of justice will fall short of the demands of love that Jesus imposes. A Christian may adopt just political measures from his or her own motive of love, but that is not the argument that will define justice for state purposes.

To claim that the state's burden of justice, which falls short of the supreme test Jesus imposes, is actually what he wills - that would be to substitute some lesser and false religion for what Jesus brought from the Father. Of course, Christians who do not meet the lower standard of state justice to the poor will, a fortiori, fail to pass the higher test.

The Romans did not believe Jesus when he said he had no political ambitions. That is why the soldiers mocked him as a failed king, giving him a robe and scepter and bowing in fake obedience (John 19:1-3). Those who today say that they are creating or following a "Christian politics" continue the work of those soldiers, disregarding the words of Jesus that his reign is not of this order.

Some may think that removing Jesus from politics would mean removing morality from politics. They think we would all be better off if we took up the slogan "What would Jesus do?" That is not a question his disciples ask in the Gospels. They never knew what Jesus was going to do next.

The Jesus of the Gospels is not a great ethical teacher like Socrates, our leading humanitarian. He is an apocalyptic figure who steps outside the boundaries of normal morality to signal that the Father's judgment is breaking into history. He is more a higher Nietzsche, beyond good and evil, than a higher Socrates. No politician is going to tell the lustful that they must pluck out their right eye. We cannot do what Jesus would do because we are not divine.

The Gospels are scary, dark and demanding. It is not surprising that people want to tame them, dilute them, make them into generic encouragements to be loving and peaceful and fair. If that is all they are, then we may as well make Socrates our redeemer.

Jesus was the victim of every institutional authority in his life and death. He said: "Do not be called Rabbi, since you have only one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, the one in heaven. And do not be called leaders, since you have only one leader, the Messiah" (Matthew 23:8-10).

If Democrats want to fight Republicans for the support of an institutional Jesus, they will have to give up the person who said those words.

He was never that thing that all politicians wish to be esteemed - respectable. The institutional Jesus of the Republicans has no similarity to the Gospel figure. Neither will any institutional Jesus of the Democrats.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/09/opinion/edwills.php

-mcbride-
--What goes around comes around--
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Bravo! Bravo! Jesus was basically an anarchist of the times. His point was not to overthrow any government, but to denounce the church as it stood. That's why he trashed the one being used as a market. Personally, I believe he was institutionalized from the very beginning, by the Romans. Thus, we have Christianity. Whereas, I believe Jesus was both a prophet and a philosopher, telling us to look within ourselves to find what it means to be "of God". He never claims to be the son of God, as much as he claims we are all sons of God. But, it's gotten to the point where we, as Christians, have started worshiping Jesus, and have forgotten God; going against the second commandment. I specifically like the comment about "showing up" at church in a time when ppl act godly on Sunday and a-holes the rest of the week. Church is in your heart, charity begins at home, and God helps those who help themselves.

Neither here nor there. I'm curious... WWJD for a Klondike bar? ;)

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You must have not bothered to read the post, just the title. If you had read the post you would know the J is for jihadists. The post was to get those who actually read it to think about their vote from a global perspective. From the results of the election it's obvious the majority voted without thinking, just as they usually do.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

mcbride

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
I read your post. I was just using the "WWJD" acronym.

I am sick of the right wing whacko's claiming Jesus as their politcal guide with the WWJD slogan.

I am sick of defending the concept of being able to call myself a Christian and not agreeing with 95% of the Bush administrations propaganda.

I am sick of the "holier-than-thou" crowd pushing to have their ideology made into law, thereby; effecting my personal decision making ability.

I am sick of the hypocrisy.

-mcbride-
--What goes around comes around--
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
McBride... I'm seeing "anti-stupid" laws coming from both sides of the isle. The hypocracy comes from both sides of the isle... only it is more obvious when the claim is against the party holding power (since the media loves turmoil).

I used to be a staunch Republican supporter. And I believe they could've held onto ppl like me who feel like the party turned their backs on the ideals that got them there. I support the war. But I don't support what the Republicans (or Democrats) stand for... more of our money, less representation, favors for their lobbying groups, more government control. You can put it in the soup and mix it up anyway you want, but you can't mask the taste of bullsh**!

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
 

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
And the left Homosexuals, Abortion Supporting Partial Birth Killing of Babies are not doing the same McBride? Its just the far right that scares you?


HMMM intresting view points.
 

bryan

Veteran Expediter
Hi

IMHO Christian churches are just a way for an elite group of people to get rich.If the churches actually cared about WWJD they wouldn't build multi-million dollar stairways to heaven.Well some- not all.Some churches do good and help people but some are just money making power hungry businesses.Most teach Paul more than Jesus.

Moslem extreemist are money making power hungry busineeses also.They don't allow their followers to use modern technology yet they have web sites, cell phones and credit cards.Thus not following the ways of Mohammed.A kind of "Do as I say not as I do".

Fortunatly I feel there are more level headed Moslems and Christians than extreemist.Blind faith in anything or anyone is a guarrentee to corruption.With out followers these extreemist are powerless whether they are Moslem or Christian.

Just the rambling of one Christ following Christian.Good luck and have a good day.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
You hit the nail, Bryan. Extremists get all the attention. Most of the time, I believe they interpret the <insert religious manual here> to their own views. All of the books have to be interpreted; but claiming God or Allah wants this or that is trying to read a diety's mind. And if you can do that, you should be calling yourself a diety. But the extremists aren't godly ppl. They are just ppl with sociopathic views that need reassurance from a book that can be read a thousand different ways. They just tend to take the most militaristic version.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
 
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