Creating new ID's to flame someone!

teacel

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Another way to stop all this BS is to turn on the IP feature so the users can check to see who or where the poster is coming from. IP addresses are not a secret, and no one can really do anything with an IP address anyway. It will tell where the post was made, so if a person is being flamed he can see if the flamer or flamers are doing it from the same IP address.

It could be 2 or 3 users teaming up on one at the local truck stop, but then again it could be one in the same using 2 user names.

FYI: It isn't illegal Dale, nor is it a breach of confidentiality, it is a tool for the abuseeeee's protection.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
No, not me either. Tallcal is another one I have to look out for and defend since I avail myself of all my rights. He's fun to debate with though. He's smart, even if misguided on a lot of things.. just like he thinks about me probably.. at least the misguided part. Could be Terry or Dreamer, they're tall.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
>IP addresses are not a secret, and no one can
>really do anything with an IP address anyway.

Don't kid yerself. If you know what you are doing, not only can you wreck havoc on someone (and their computer) if you have their IP address, but you can also gather a ton of information on them. An IP address can easily and quickly become personally identifiable information. Absolutely. There is a reason that Web anonymizers and Web proxies are so popular, and are just as valuable as a PGP key to those who value their privacy.
 

Paul56

Seasoned Expediter
Some are more paranoid about their privacy than others.

The IP is similar to one's street address which is available, but not easily available. However, this analogy is invalid when the IP is dynamic.

Personally, I'd rather see this type of information released on a need to know basis only such that it isn't made too easy for those intent on causing trouble.
 

Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
Cheri,

May I ask who **Garcia** is? Huh? Huh? :)

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com


T.V. - Why do you think they call it programming?

No, YOU suck. - the mean people

"Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well informed about the United States." - J. Bartlett Brebner

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. - I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear.

Become who you are. - Nietzsche


Whoever coined the phrase "Quiet as a mouse" has never stepped on one.




-----------------------------------------
Thanks For Visiting EO!



http://www.expeditersonline.com/hotnews/sterling_eo_forum.jpg


Please Help Us Get The Word
Out About Expediters Online.com!

-----------------------------------------
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
I will not post the ID's at THIS TIME. I think this post will serve as fair warning that we are not being fooled.

If it's something you think would get you kicked off, you shouldn't be saying it! But..as McBride, Teacel and other have stated,....if you're determined to have your say, use your own ID. We may not like it, we may not agree with you, it may draw a warning...but we'll have a lot more respect for you.

And, as Teacel says.. Think before you type!

FAIR WARNING TO ALL.


Dreamer
Forums Administrator


--------------





You don't stop laughing because you grow old,

You grow old because you stop laughing.




 

dukesadog

Expert Expediter
Why would anyone have their IP address available? You guys that are concerned about privacy need to look for Ghost Surf software. It supposedly scrambles your IP address like 8 times a second. Also supposed to eliminate spam and gives hackers a hard time. Your computer will also be faster.

Duke
 

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
Computer savy I am not. It twas not I said the fly. Seriously the only ID I have ever had is my own, If I do not like your post, I think I have been fair in my posts.

Anyway know one can spell as bad as me. Dead give away.....
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Dreamer, why would you deny us the opportunity to laugh at and mock these people? Making fun of morons is one of lifes simple pleasures. It would also be funny if some of these people tried to defend their behavior.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
>It would also be funny if some of these people tried to defend their behavior.

While I've never felt the need to do so, at least not in this forum, I can certanly defend it. For whatever reasons, all of them being valid (even the stupid, immature ones) there are times when one wants to voice an opinion without it being viewed by the reader in a biased manner solely because of who is saying it. That's actually one of the core benefits of anonymous Web forums such as this one. It allows people the freedom of speech to voice a dissenting opinion or a complaint without, say, their company handing out retribution for it.

Granted, that does not mean someone can go wildly off topic. However, the General Expediter Forum's topic is broad enough that almost anything goes, as long as it's even remotely related to "All The Topics, Subjects and Issues of Concern To People In The Expedited Freight Industry,", which covers a lot of territory (including sohpomoric spats between expedited drivers).

If someone wants to remain truly anonymous, to hide their IP address, they should use a Web anonymizer (even Google's Web Accelerator has the side benefit of accomplishing this), but that's not really an issue, since the Web moderators and system administrators here are still bound by the Privacy Policy of On Time Media, anyway. ;)

Just an IMHO, seems to me that when a free exchange of ideas is solicited in a General Forum, those ideas should then be accepted (within reason, of course), regardless of whether a moderator agrees with them. Moderator-deleted posts and deleted threads are disturbing enough, in a way, but a locked thread is nothing more than putting a pre-emptive (taken as a measure against something possible, anticipated, or feared) muzzle on someone's ideas. Encouraging a free exchange of ideas, provided the moderators agree with them, isn't exactly what I'd call a free exchange of ideas.

There's an easily-crossed fine line bewteen deleting something utterly inappropriate and selective censorship. Once crossed, it's a slippery slope, to be sure. :shrug:

Personally, I'd rather read it all, the good, the bad, and the ridiculously ugly, and then use my own mind, rather than be protected (or worse, muzzled) from something disagreeable.
 

mcbride

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Turtle,

Excellent post on this thread, although I seriously doubt anyone on the site will heed to your intelligent observations...

This site, like many, has beat the whole "censorship" thing to death.


-mcbride-
--What goes around comes around--
 

DannyD

Veteran Expediter
>Why would anyone have their IP address available? You guys
>that are concerned about privacy need to look for Ghost Surf
>software. It supposedly scrambles your IP address like 8
>times a second. Also supposed to eliminate spam and gives
>hackers a hard time. Your computer will also be faster.

I'm not computer savvy either so I asked someone who knows about computers. He said the above is pretty accurate w/ one exception. Your computer will be faster on the sites that are cached by the site ya get your proxy addy from. Your comp will be a lil slower on the sites it doesn't cache.

Also, he said there are free versions out there ya may wanna look into. All in all though, Duke's post is pretty accurate if ya wanna have a bit more privacy/protection on your computer.

Take care,
Danny
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I just don't agree. If you believe what you believe then you should have no problem with people knowing it's you.
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
>

>
>If someone wants to remain truly anonymous, to hide their IP
>address, they should use a Web anonymizer (even Google's Web
>Accelerator has the side benefit of accomplishing this), but
>that's not really an issue, since the Web moderators and
>system administrators here are still bound by the Privacy
>Policy of On Time Media, anyway. ;)


Boy, seems you've really researched this! Our privacy policy pertains in the manner that I would not release your personal info to your company, as in your email address, real name etc, UNLESS you have already posted it yourself.

However, I am perfectly free, for example, if I were to say "This person has 3 ID's they use" if you are causing trouble and attacking other members. This is covered under the rule that states a members first post cannot be to attack someone, or some company. I'm not talking about invasion of privacy, I'm talking about someone who creates a new membership soley to attack. Those memberships can, and will be deleted without warning from now on. If the behavior continues, the member will be suspended, or banned.


>Just an IMHO, seems to me that when a free exchange of ideas
>is solicited in a General Forum, those ideas should then be
>accepted (within reason, of course), regardless of whether a
>moderator agrees with them. Moderator-deleted posts and
>deleted threads are disturbing enough, in a way, but a
>locked thread is nothing more than putting a pre-emptive
>(taken as a measure against something possible, anticipated,
>or feared) muzzle on someone's ideas. Encouraging a free
>exchange of ideas, provided the moderators agree with
>them, isn't exactly what I'd call a free exchange of ideas.
>

Posts are not deleted because we disagree with them. They are deleted because a poster flamed another poster, advocated something illegal, or posted against EO's forum rules.


>There's an easily-crossed fine line bewteen deleting
>something utterly inappropriate and selective censorship.
>Once crossed, it's a slippery slope, to be sure. :shrug:
>
>Personally, I'd rather read it all, the good, the bad, and
>the ridiculously ugly, and then use my own mind, rather than
>be protected (or worse, muzzled) from something
>disagreeable.


That then is the difference between a moderated forum, and a completely open forum. This is why we have moderators. We will not delete posts because we disagree. We will however, delete posts that are against our rules, are disruptive, or flat out flaming another poster. This is a board for professionals.


Dreamer
Forums Administrator


--------------





You don't stop laughing because you grow old,

You grow old because you stop laughing.




 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
>Boy, seems you've really researched this!

Naaaa. Not really. I'm just a computer geek who's been around for a long, long time. I have read the Pricavy Policy, though, as I usually do at most sites, especially one that I would register my personal information with. :)

>Our privacy
>policy pertains in the manner that I would not release your
>personal info to your company, as in your email address,
>real name etc, UNLESS you have already posted it yourself.

It pertains to a lot more than releasing information to my company. It pertains to publically releasing any user's private infomation without their expressed permission. Publishing a user's IP address would violate that policy.


>
>However, I am perfectly free, for example, if I were to say
>"This person has 3 ID's they use" if you are causing trouble
>and attacking other members.

Perfectly free, to be sure. Not exactly all that professional to stoop to the same level as that of the goober who created multiple ID's, but perfectly free, nonethless. :D

>This is covered under the rule
>that states a members first post cannot be to attack
>someone, or some company.

I have no problem with that rule. The offending posts should be deleted, the user warned about creating new ID's and making first-post attacks, and then the user themselves banned if they do it again, at least if they don't make a non-attacking first post first, that is. :)

>I'm not talking about invasion of
>privacy, I'm talking about someone who creates a new
>membership soley to attack. Those memberships can, and will
>be deleted without warning from now on. If the behavior
>continues, the member will be suspended, or banned.

Good. But the posting of an IP address is, in fact, an invasion of privacy. It's a relatively simple thing to garner whatever information you wish about someone if you know their IP address, even easier if it's static. There are tools that can be used to learn anything you want to know about someone (and a lot you'd rather not know about them hehe).

The public releasing of a user's IP address, enacted in revenge or in a vengefull manner, is not only unprofessional, but would instantly erode any and all trust the users have in this site. Even to threaten to do so gives me (and others) pause. It's a demonstration of an unbalanced power. It's as if to say, 'Not only do we control you, and can we ban you from the site, but we can go much, much further if we feel like it.' A little disturbing, to say the least.

The creation of a new thread threatening the entire forum populace with the outing of their personal information if they broke a rule seemed a little over the top to me. I'd have just banned the offending user(s) with my big stick and been done with it, rather than feel the need to wave my big stick over everyone's head, just to make sure they don't get out of line.

>
>Posts are not deleted because we disagree with them.
>They are deleted because a poster flamed another poster,
>advocated something illegal, or posted against EO's forum
>rules.
>

Weeeeelllll, OK. If you say so. :D

>>
>>Personally, I'd rather read it all, the good, the bad, and
>>the ridiculously ugly, and then use my own mind, rather than
>>be protected (or worse, muzzled) from something
>>disagreeable.
>
>
>That then is the difference between a moderated forum,
>and a completely open forum. This is why we have
>moderators. We will not delete posts because we disagree.

But, you'll flat out lock a thread up right quick if you don't like where the thread is going, or if you feel that the topic has been discussed to death already (ignoring the presence of new users that haven't been there done that). I'm well aware of what a moderator does. Been there, done that, got the sweatshirt, from the Web, Usenet and ARPANET. (yeah, I'm an old fart. Well, older, anyway.) I'm also aware that you should moderate your forums in whatever manner you see fit. The only thing I (or any reasonable users) ask is that it be moderated consistently, and if there is an inconsistency that crops up, it should be fully explained to all users (in as much as it can be fully explained, of course).

>We will however, delete posts that are against our rules,
>are disruptive, or flat out flaming another poster. This is
>a board for professionals.[/b]

Blatant rule violations are obvious to almost everbody, and I'm not advocating a free-for-all or unrestricted free speech on a private forum such as this one. But where I have a problem is the sometimes-broad interpretation of what constitues "disruptive", especially when it's on the General forum. Anything pertaining to the expediting industry, disruptive or not, fits the topic description of that board (provided it's not a blatant violation of the AUP).

Also, not that it matters, but to get to the forums, I have to click a button labelled Open Forum.

I just think that's too funny. :D
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
With all of this said, I do feel the need to question as to why certain members are so afraid of losing their "feedom of speech" on this forum. I certainly am not. It's sad that such a beautiful word as freedom is being used so often as nothing more than left-wing rhetoric for a thing called LAWLESSNESS. Freedom and lawlessness are NOT the same.

Hmmm.....

Of course, if I were using this forum just to take personal potshots at people I disagreed with using MID (Multiple ID Disorder?), then I guess I too would be afraid of losing my "freedom" to EO "censorship."


Grow Up and Drive Safe!

Jeff

Once again, thank you mods for doing a thankless job!
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I'm not talking about invasion of
>privacy, I'm talking about someone who creates a new
>membership soley to attack. Those memberships can, and will
>be deleted without warning from now on. If the behavior
>continues, the member will be suspended, or banned. [/b]

Perfect!
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
Jeff,

Thanks for the thanks! We do appreciate it. As you said, it is most times a thankless job. Remember, our moderators are volunteers.

Just a few final thoughts.

It seems to me that some people 'doth protest too much'. I didn't say I was going to POST IP addresses, I said I would possibly post the multiple ID's as PROVED by the IP addresses.

Please remember tho, that address is attached to every email you send, and every post you make in a forum. Most forums have the option to display that IP address with every post.

Therefore, it is not illegal to have that information displayed, it is an option.

I have been a member of some of those types of forums. It just keeps everyone honest. It was suggested we turn on that feature here, but we have not. Administration however, has access to that info.

While this indeed is an 'Open Forum', that simply means it is open to all registered members, and is not a 'Private Forum', which is open only by invitation. Open Forum does not mean anything goes.

Over the past 2 years I have taken this job seriously and tried to keep this forum the best, most professional forum of it's kind.
I will readily admit that sometimes I do indeed err sometimes on the side of 'overprotecting' our forums. It's hard to find a balance between too strict and not strict enough.

We've all seen forums self distruct. We've seen 'flamefests' go on for years.. just look at any of the usenet groups. I like to think, with the help of a great group of experienced moderators, we have established a higher standard here.

Is it perfect? Nope... but I submit it's one of the best, and most professional, user friendly forums around. I'm darn proud to be associated with it.



Dreamer
Forums Administrator


--------------





You don't stop laughing because you grow old,

You grow old because you stop laughing.




 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
>
>Please remember tho, that address is attached to every email
>you send, and every post you make in a forum. Most forums
>have the option to display that IP address with every post.
>
>Therefore, it is not illegal to have that information
>displayed, it is an option.

Therefore? Wow, that's one heck of an interpretation of the Privacy Policy here. Just because the server software has an option that can be turned on, it somehow makes a section of the Privacy Policy null and void? Privacy Policies and their legalities is something I know more than a cursory amount about. The public display of user's IP addresses cannot be suddenly turned on without serious risk of all manner of legal backlash, unless or until it is addressed in the Privacy Policy. Be that as it may, I don't post to public forums that will publically display any of my personal information that I haven't agreed to, including my IP address. With only a few exceptions, all of my e-mail is sent via remailers and does not, in fact, have my IP address attached. I only post to Usenet using servers that do not display my IP address.

>
> I have been a member of some of those types of forums. It
>just keeps everyone honest. It was suggested we turn
>on that feature here, but we have not. Administration
>however, has access to that info.

Adminstration having that information is a given, as it is not only necessary for the operation of the servers and for TCP/IP traffic control, there are also many legal reasons for having the IP addresses logged. But the sysadmins having that information is far, far different from having the public at large in possession of that information, especially if the user's are unaware that their information is to suddenly be made available by the administrators to which they have entrusted their information.

>
>While this indeed is an 'Open Forum', that simply means it
>is open to all registered members, and is not a 'Private
>Forum', which is open only by invitation. Open Forum does
>not mean anything goes.
>
>Over the past 2 years I have taken this job seriously and
>tried to keep this forum the best, most professional forum
>of it's kind.
>I will readily admit that sometimes I do indeed err
>sometimes on the side of 'overprotecting' our forums. It's
>hard to find a balance between too strict and not strict
>enough.

True. Very true.

>
>We've all seen forums self distruct. We've seen
>'flamefests' go on for years.. just look at any of the
>usenet groups. I like to think, with the help of a great
>group of experienced moderators, we have established a
>higher standard here.
>
>Is it perfect? Nope... but I submit it's one of the best,
>and most professional, user friendly forums around. I'm
>darn proud to be associated with it.

All true. It is one of the best around, no question.

I'm just here to keep ya on yer toes. ;)


Incidentally, for anyone that wondered, I'm a hard nosed republican who can, at times, make Pat Buchanan look like Hilary, and I take words like freedom very seriously. I fully understand the constitutional implementation of freedom of speech, and fully understand that almost none of it applies to a private enterprise - like this Web forum.

--
Teach a man to fish,
and you feed himn for a day.
Teach him to use the Internet,
and he won't bother you for weeks.
 

Italiangrl

Expert Expediter
Dreamer, that sounds more than fair to me. If you catch it happening, just out them. No one on here should hide if they have something to say.

Trish
Fleet Owner FedEx CC
D6189/CR3088/C6446
 
Top