couple of questions

[always confused]

on several occasions i have recently heard obama state the cost of iraq war is 70 million a month, and he would use that money to fund his projects to rebuild the u.s. infrastructure, etc. published information indicates that military operations in iraq cost 12,8 million a month.

where does the 70 mil figure come from? if the 70mil number includes the 12.8mil for the military operations shouldn't it be subtracted? unless you're planning on getting rid of them they still get paid, fed, have med care, etc. weather deployed or not. not being a financial wizard i wonder if 'fuzzy math' is involved, or is this just political mumbo-jumbo?

i have noticed both mc cain and obama have put forward a lot of 'plans' that are 'funded' by tax credits. a thousand for this, 4 thousand for that, etc. just how will this work? as a deduction? a modification to the 'tax table'? an adjustment to your gross income?

as an example obama indicates he wants a 4tho tax credit for education. how will it work? high school jane doe graduates in june wants to go to local college abc in sept. to pay her tution she must have cash. if unemployed how does she get the tax credit? taxes aren't filed till april. and if its a credit and she paid no taxes?

i notice some recent news concerning issues about drilling for oil. some of the 'pundits' are saying it will be ten years before meaningful production occurs, and by then it will have little impact. last time i looked it didn't take ten years to drill a well. usually just a matter of weeks after starting. now 'prep' time to obtain permits, do surveys, impact statements, etc can lead to lengthy lead times. equipment and crew avail require some scheduling. but where does the ten year delay come from?

There has been a lot said recently about 'world demand' for oil as a reason for the run up in crude price. if 4 to 5 dollar gas is hurting our economy what is it doing to europe? china, japan ... ... and then theres the other 'third world' nations with their 'developing economys'
whats happening to them?

 

[LDB]

You've got a number of people saying it will take 10 years to get anything because their agenda is to avoid drilling at all costs. It will take more than a few weeks on most of it because it's not land based drilling. It will not take 10 years. For the offshore drilling it's probably 2-3 years for major production and within 5 years for maximum production. Many of the surveys and permits are already done and waiting on nothing more than clearance to begin. Interestingly enough, the president lifts the executive order prohibiting drilling and oil prices drop significantly. Imagine what they'd do if Pelosi, Reid, Obutthead and the rest of the obstructionist liberal leftists lifted their ban as well.

 

[always confused]

You've got a number of people saying it will take 10 years to get anything because their agenda is to avoid drilling at all costs. It will take more than a few weeks on most of it because it's not land based drilling. It will not take 10 years. For the offshore drilling it's probably 2-3 years for major production and within 5 years for maximum production. Many of the surveys and permits are already done and waiting on nothing more than clearance to begin. Interestingly enough, the president lifts the executive order prohibiting drilling and oil prices drop significantly. Imagine what they'd do if Pelosi, Reid, Obutthead and the rest of the obstructionist liberal leftists lifted their ban as well.

ok tks. at one time lived in tex and watched more than one well go in. really only took a few weeks, but that was on land.

 

[Pilgrim]

Re the $70 mil per month for the war - the liberals and anti-war crowd are all over the place with these numbers, and most are nonsense. To get a true picture one could go to the Congressional Budget Office website and do some research, but that still might not give a complete picture. How much did the 911 attacks cost us? How much have we saved ourselves by not having another terrorist attack on US soil since then? Things like this certainly need to be considered when talking about the cost of the war - but don't expect to hear it from B. Hussein Obama.

 

[greg334]

on several occasions i have recently heard obama state the cost of iraq war is 70 million a month, and he would use that money to fund his projects to rebuild the u.s. infrastructure, etc. published information indicates that military operations in iraq cost 12,8 million a month.

where does the 70 mil figure come from? if the 70mil number includes the 12.8mil for the military operations shouldn't it be subtracted? unless you're planning on getting rid of them they still get paid, fed, have med care, etc. weather deployed or not. not being a financial wizard i wonder if 'fuzzy math' is involved, or is this just political mumbo-jumbo?

It is a spin on the facts. You are closer in thinking that the cost of the operation includes the static costs of maintaining the troop levels.

The war is funded by borrowing the money instead of taking the money that the Iraqis have.

If Obama wants to rebuild the infrastructure, it is simply a case of putting forth a vision and doing what we did in the 60’s, put things in motion to produce prosperity and generate tax revenue, not increase taxes. He has no vision, well neither of them have no vision to be accurate.

i have noticed both mc cain and obama have put forward a lot of 'plans' that are 'funded' by tax credits. a thousand for this, 4 thousand for that, etc. just how will this work? as a deduction? a modification to the 'tax table'? an adjustment to your gross income?

as an example obama indicates he wants a 4tho tax credit for education. how will it work? high school jane doe graduates in june wants to go to local college abc in sept. to pay her tution she must have cash. if unemployed how does she get the tax credit? taxes aren't filed till april. and if its a credit and she paid no taxes?

Well the tax system is used as a social control mechanism, we do everything in our lives based around taxes, there is not one exception to that. If we are smart, we would ignore all that both of them are saying and tell our representatives that we want real changes to the tax system – the Fair Tax is a start.

To sort of answer your question, if Jane wants to go to school, she actually has little in the way of choices and levels of education as she would have say a hundred years ago. Schools are businesses now, they are keeping tuition high at he same time getting tax money to run, making a huge profit while ignoring their purpose – to educate. Obama is also siding with the banking industry (no surprise there) by offering tax credits to cover the raising cost of education and promoting the need for loans.

i notice some recent news concerning issues about drilling for oil. some of the 'pundits' are saying it will be ten years before meaningful production occurs, and by then it will have little impact. last time i looked it didn't take ten years to drill a well. usually just a matter of weeks after starting. now 'prep' time to obtain permits, do surveys, impact statements, etc can lead to lengthy lead times. equipment and crew avail require some scheduling. but where does the ten year delay come from?

There has been a lot said recently about 'world demand' for oil as a reason for the run up in crude price. if 4 to 5 dollar gas is hurting our economy what is it doing to europe? china, japan ... ... and then theres the other 'third world' nations with their 'developing economys'
whats happening to them?

Truthfully, the democrats with help from some of the greenies are colluding to keep the prices up in order to change our thinking and dump the internal combustion engine by creating the problem in the first place. Some are now thinking that the congress is ignoring the national security issues, which energy is. Drilling is not a 10 year thing anymore. For example BP in the last 5 years dumped a billion or so in new drilling technology, they now can tap some of the hard to get North Sea reserves and stuff in Alaska. They can drill sideways, up side down and to China without spilling a drop of Oil. The bigger problem is that the people in this country, not the government are the real cause of all of this, they won’t vote for people to change the face of congress.

Just remember that we are the only country in the world who does not allow anyone to tap into the natural resources of the country.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

simply amazing...our whole economy is oil based and here we are handcuffed by a bunch of idiots.

Voters don't have to wait for Congress to change the rules, the voters still have the power and chose not to use it by not voting...
Voters should instill thier own term limits....every 6 years just vote out the incumbent!

 

[always confused]

It is a spin on the facts. You are closer in thinking that the cost of the operation includes the static costs of maintaining the troop levels.

The war is funded by borrowing the money instead of taking the money that the Iraqis have.

If Obama wants to rebuild the infrastructure, it is simply a case of putting forth a vision and doing what we did in the 60’s, put things in motion to produce prosperity and generate tax revenue, not increase taxes. He has no vision, well neither of them have no vision to be accurate.



Well the tax system is used as a social control mechanism, we do everything in our lives based around taxes, there is not one exception to that. If we are smart, we would ignore all that both of them are saying and tell our representatives that we want real changes to the tax system – the Fair Tax is a start.

To sort of answer your question, if Jane wants to go to school, she actually has little in the way of choices and levels of education as she would have say a hundred years ago. Schools are businesses now, they are keeping tuition high at he same time getting tax money to run, making a huge profit while ignoring their purpose – to educate. Obama is also siding with the banking industry (no surprise there) by offering tax credits to cover the raising cost of education and promoting the need for loans.



Truthfully, the democrats with help from some of the greenies are colluding to keep the prices up in order to change our thinking and dump the internal combustion engine by creating the problem in the first place. Some are now thinking that the congress is ignoring the national security issues, which energy is. Drilling is not a 10 year thing anymore. For example BP in the last 5 years dumped a billion or so in new drilling technology, they now can tap some of the hard to get North Sea reserves and stuff in Alaska. They can drill sideways, up side down and to China without spilling a drop of Oil. The bigger problem is that the people in this country, not the government are the real cause of all of this, they won’t vote for people to change the face of congress.

Just remember that we are the only country in the world who does not allow anyone to tap into the natural resources of the country.

ok the 70mil is bogus .. i was thinking along those lines but didn't find any info supporting that number. the 12.8 is tied to recent budget allocations, which makes it look like the 'infrastructure rebuild' is bogus.

so the tax credit thing is also a sham ... if it requires a 'loan' for the student to get in classes. makes me question all proposed 'tax credit' plans put out by both sides. i wondered why a credit instead of a rate change.

as to the people of this country causing the problem because they won't change congress. you might have something with that idea, but isn't that what obama is riding 'change!!!' its not just change but the type of change that matters. but what do you expect from a populace that makes 'reality tv' popular entertainment of choice.

i look forward to all posts regarding these topics, and thank all responders.

 

[greg334]

Voters don't have to wait for Congress to change the rules, the voters still have the power and chose not to use it by not voting...
Voters should instill thier own term limits....every 6 years just vote out the incumbent!

Well that would be the case but the public at large has one problem, they are ignorant to the facts on how the government works. I read a poll today that showed 80% of the people who participated thought that the president is the most important person in the government, the congress ranks behind the courts in the same poll.

The representatives are up for reelection every two years, these are the people who really count. See the way it was supposed to work was the representatives were to represent the people, the senators were to represent the state (and thus by appointed by the state not elected) but somewhere along the lines we ended up with a mess with no representation at all.

ok the 70mil is bogus .. i was thinking along those lines but didn't find any info supporting that number. the 12.8 is tied to recent budget allocations, which makes it look like the 'infrastructure rebuild' is bogus.

so the tax credit thing is also a sham ... if it requires a 'loan' for the student to get in classes. makes me question all proposed 'tax credit' plans put out by both sides. i wondered why a credit instead of a rate change.

Well in comparison to other countries, our entire education system is a mess and it is not about education but tenure. Just look at the school voucher system and who is fighting against it. I think that the school issues all start with the idea that education is an absolute right that is governed by the feds, not at the local level and I really think if we are going to follow the Europeans then we should look at the French education system.

as to the people of this country causing the problem because they won't change congress. you might have something with that idea, but isn't that what obama is riding 'change!!!' its not just change but the type of change that matters. but what do you expect from a populace that makes 'reality tv' popular entertainment of choice.

Well Obama has said change but his actions speak of status quo. His backers are old senior people who will not give up power at all but want more. They will get it with him, no doubt. If he wanted to show any leadership, he would not have gone overseas but returned to congress to fight for some bills to show us he means business.

I am very serious when I say if you want to see what the country will be like in a couple years under Obama, look at my state – Michigan. We have a very screwed up state, the b*tch in charge is blaming everyone else for her mess, we the tax payers are too stupid to recall her for her state police deal, the hiring of Levin and others who lost the election and the lack of jobs. We the people of the state are not embarrassed over Detroit, the cesspool of corruption. If people want to follow the events, than think about if these things we to happen at the federal level, everyone can see the mess.

In reality this has become a popularity contest. One thing that many want to change is to eliminate the Electoral College and use the popular vote. That will devastate the country within a few elections because the entire purpose for the college was to prevent the British style of peerage.

 

[always confused]

ref education i'm not familar with the french system ... hows it work?

basically i think the system 'we' currently use is a huge ripoff. first its based on the idea of public funding, open to all, and has gotten greedy. the public funding kinda sounds good, but it has 'socalist' written all over it. you don't expect me to pay your bill at the hardware store but you want me to pay to educate your kid... ... to say its for the public good ... good for the nation ... its good for the parent who doesn't pay but a fraction of the cost. and the cost seems to always be going up. not just teacher salarys. and the quality. questionable at best. the average hs student at the local fast food is the butt of much humor for a reason. then for the parent to exclaim 'johnny can't read is a joke. if the parent did any parenting they would know this long before johnny 'grad-id-uates' . as to open to all. to be perfectly honest not everybody is equiped with the brains to succeed in an academic environment. i'm not saying they are incapable of learning, but maybe math 'ain't their thing'. or reading, or science... ... but there they are bringing down the whole class... ...
so we start having special classes, which cost more. years ago i think most people recognised this fact, and students went as far as they could then 'dropped out'. wasn't a big deal made out of it. most made it thru the 8th grade before throwing in the towel and joining the work force. but now a hs graduation is 'the norm' even if just for attendence. but i'm going to pay and pay even if i have no kids in school. and just to increase the cost we add bussing, because its only fair. that way the poor kids arn't at a disadvantage... if that were only true it might not bother me so much, but it ain't.

well enough rant from me on this for now.

 

[always confused]

as to mich well i don't follow it very closely, but spent a couple weeks in detroit earlier this year when the mayor secret deal came out. sorry to say but i laughed so hard i almost cried. i do occasionally listen to the news, or read a paper and am amazed at what transpires in this nation of ours with so little backlash or more than a fleeting moment of public concern. as a whole i guess the public gets what they ask for (elect a crook get crooked laws) and i've been around long enough now that my mind must have been dulled because of repeated offences i no longer feel the outrage i did as a youth.

i have no hope for the future because as a people we refuse to remember the past - might be the standard mindset of many thinking people today. -

 

[greg334]

I can write a lot about what I am seeing at U of M, but I will say this - they are bigger then most large companies with a multi-billion dollar budget but their school charter clearly states that the school is for the people of the state of Michigan to use. I can't, I don't have enough points but I know someone in Iran can apply and get accepted.

France from what my friends tell me how it all works - The money follows the kids. We have the system where the kids follow the money. This means that we have no choice where the tax money goes to, it always ends up in the local school system. As you know some of the problems with our schools is, well part of the teachers union and part of the lack of local control. Now if we allowed the parents 100% control over where the kids will go, the system will have to become competitive and the standards will rise. France gives the money to the school that the parents choose - like a voucher system. Hope that makes sense.

As Tallcal may point out, China has a good school system too, they get a well rounded education and we should seriously use the funding system from france but we seriously need to look at Germany and China to see where we can improve our knowledge base among our kids.

 

[always confused]

i don't know if the money following the kids is the answer. somehow the idea supported by the courts that require bussing so there is no 'unfair' advantage in districts with a larger tax base would seem to keep something like this from working. i'm sure some teachers are better than others, and if more resources are available it can make the learning process more productive. but somehow some students manage to get an education even in the most appalling conditions. maybe more needs to be done about student desire to learn.

at one time i taught some classes for central texas college. these were night classes for adults. i was disturbed at the time at the number of students that didn't even read the assigned text before class. i mean these people were paying to be there. they didn't prepare for class, expected to be spoon fed, and acted like they were insulted when expected to learn something. needless to say there were a few in class that did very well, some that managed to get by, and a few you couldn't 'beat it in them with a stick'.

so if you take the average young person, add the don't care -what do i need that for additude, lack of parental involvement, it doesn't suprise me the schools are having a tough time educating the 'little darlings'.

 

[greg334]

Well first the students who are achieving against the odds have a either a great support system at home or are naturally determined to get out of their situation through hard work. I got a few here in my neighborhood who were expected to end up being drug dealers and got out of that mindset.

The idea that there are issues with funding that prevent a kid form getting a good education, well I have only the parents to blame for that. The real problem is the flow of money in our case here, from our pockets to Lansing to Washington back to Lansing back to the schools. It used to be from our pockets to the schools. Every step of the way money is taken out and than return based on some stupid archaic formula to equalized education. The parents don't want to fight the school board or the schools, they don't care enough to change the idea that the schools answer to no one.

Busing was to solve the problem of equality within a school district, like in the case of Detroit where the kids were moved around within.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

In Ontario, the individual school budget is determined by enrollment..so in essence the money follows the student.

 

[greg334]

In Ontario, the individual school budget is determined by enrollment..so in essence the money follows the student.

So if I lived in Ontario, and I want my kids to go to a school in Windsor but I live in Brampton, I can enroll them in the Windsor schools?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

no....but if you didn't like your local district and wanted to put them in one say 5 miles away you could...BUT you'd be responsible for the transportation...

I should add thats IF there is an empty desk in that school...in that classroom...