A long read, but worth it if ya enjoy politics

DannyD

Veteran Expediter
Amazing at how what he said 2 years ago is coming to fruition today. I'm sure everyone thinks the same about their candidate, but to me Ron Paul was the ONLY candidate who would have improved our country.

A lil edit, this is a REAL long read. 30,171 characters. This site only allows 10,000 characters. So hopefully I'll do this link right & if you're interested, click on it. If not, that's totally understandable.

Below is some exerpts to give ya a lil preview on what you're reading.

What the Price of Gold is Telling Us — Ron Paul 2008

The best analogy to our affinity for government spending, borrowing, and inflating is that of a drug addict who knows if he doesn’t quit he’ll die; yet he can’t quit because of the heavy price required to overcome the dependency. The right choice is very difficult, but remaining addicted to drugs guarantees the death of the patient, while our addiction to deficit spending, debt, and inflation guarantees the collapse of our economy.

The cost of war is enormously detrimental; it significantly contributes to the economic instability of the nation by boosting spending, deficits, and inflation. Funds used for war are funds that could have remained in the productive economy to raise the standard of living of Americans now unemployed, underemployed, or barely living on the margin.

Yet even these costs may be preferable to paying for war with huge tax increases. This is because although fiat dollars are theoretically worthless, value is imbued by the trust placed in them by the world’s financial community. Subjective trust in a currency can override objective knowledge about government policies, but only for a limited time.

In wartime, many nations actually operated counterfeiting programs to undermine our dollar, but never to a disastrous level. The enemy knew how harmful excessive creation of new money could be to the dollar and our economy. But it seems we never learned the dangers of creating new money out of thin air. We don’t need an Arab nation or the Chinese to undermine our system with a counterfeiting operation. We do it ourselves, with all the disadvantages that would occur if others did it to us. Today we hear threats from some Arab, Muslim, and far Eastern countries about undermining the dollar system- not by dishonest counterfeiting, but by initiating an alternative monetary system based on gold. Wouldn’t that be ironic? Such an event theoretically could do great harm to us. This day may well come, not so much as a direct political attack on the dollar system but out of necessity to restore confidence in money once again.

The same is true of all foreign aid-- it’s nothing more than a program that steals from the poor in a rich country and gives to the rich leaders of a poor country. Whether it’s war or welfare payments, it always means higher taxes, inflation, and debt. Whether it’s the extraction of wealth from the productive economy, the distortion of the market by interest rate manipulation, or spending for war and welfare, it can’t happen without infringing upon personal liberty.

At home the war on poverty, terrorism, drugs, or foreign rulers provides an opportunity for authoritarians to rise to power, individuals who think nothing of violating the people’s rights to privacy and freedom of speech. They believe their role is to protect the secrecy of government, rather than protect the privacy of citizens. Unfortunately, that is the atmosphere under which we live today, with essentially no respect for the Bill of Rights.

Once inflation is recognized as a tax, it becomes clear the tax is regressive: penalizing the poor and middle class more than the rich and politically privileged. Price inflation, a consequence of inflating the money supply by the central bank, hits poor and marginal workers first and foremost. It especially penalizes savers, retirees, those on fixed incomes, and anyone who trusts government promises. Small businesses and individual enterprises suffer more than the financial elite, who borrow large sums before the money loses value. Those who are on the receiving end of government contracts--especially in the military industrial complex during wartime-- receive undeserved benefits.

It’s a mistake to blame high gasoline and oil prices on price gouging. If we impose new taxes or fix prices, while ignoring monetary inflation, corporate subsidies, and excessive regulations, shortages will result. The market is the only way to determine the best price for any commodity. The law of supply and demand cannot be repealed. The real problems arise when government planners give subsidies to energy companies and favor one form of energy over another.

Energy prices are rising for many reasons: Inflation; increased demand from China and India; decreased supply resulting from our invasion of Iraq; anticipated disruption of supply as we push regime change in Iran; regulatory restrictions on gasoline production; government interference in the free market development of alternative fuels; and subsidies to big oil such as free leases and grants for research and development.

Interestingly, the cost of oil and gas is actually much higher than we pay at the retail level. Much of the DOD budget is spent protecting “our” oil supplies, and if such spending is factored in gasoline probably costs us more than $5 a gallon. The sad irony is that this military effort to secure cheap oil supplies inevitably backfires, and actually curtails supplies and boosts prices at the pump. The waste and fraud in issuing contracts to large corporations for work in Iraq only add to price increases.

When problems arise under conditions that exist today, it’s a serious error to blame the little bit of the free market that still functions. Last summer the market worked efficiently after Katrina-- gas hit $3 a gallon, but soon supplies increased, usage went down, and the price returned to $2. In the 1980s, market forces took oil from $40 per barrel to $10 per barrel, and no one cried for the oil companies that went bankrupt. Today’s increases are for the reasons mentioned above. It’s natural for labor to seek its highest wage, and businesses to strive for the greatest profit. That’s the way the market works. When the free market is allowed to work, it’s the consumer who ultimately determines price and quality, with labor and business accommodating consumer choices. Once this process is distorted by government, prices rise excessively, labor costs and profits are negatively affected, and problems emerge. Instead of fixing the problem, politicians and demagogues respond by demanding windfall profits taxes and price controls, while never questioning how previous government interference caused the whole mess in the first place. Never let it be said that higher oil prices and profits cause inflation; inflation of the money supply causes higher prices!

Since keeping interest rates below market levels is synonymous with new money creation by the Fed, the resulting business cycle, higher cost of living, and job losses all can be laid at the doorstep of the Fed. This burden hits the poor the most, making Fed taxation by inflation the worst of all regressive taxes. Statistics about revenues generated by the income tax are grossly misleading; in reality much harm is done by our welfare/warfare system supposedly designed to help the poor and tax the rich. Only sound money can rectify the blatant injustice of this destructive system.

The Founders understood this great danger, and voted overwhelmingly to reject “emitting bills of credit,” the term they used for paper or fiat money. It’s too bad the knowledge and advice of our founders, and their mandate in the Constitution, are ignored today at our great peril. The current surge in gold prices-- which reflects our dollar’s devaluation-- is warning us to pay closer attention to our fiscal, monetary, entitlement, and foreign policy.

Today we face a 60% devaluation and counting, yet no one seems to care. It’s of greater significance than the three events mentioned above. And yet the one measurement that best reflects the degree of inflation, the Fed and our government deny us. Since March, M3 reporting has been discontinued. For starters, I’d like to see Congress demand that this report be resumed. I fully believe the American people and Congress are entitled to this information. Will we one day complain about false intelligence, as we have with the Iraq war? Will we complain about not having enough information to address monetary policy after it’s too late?

If ever there was a time to get a handle on what sound money is and what it means, that time is today.

Inflation, as exposed by high gold prices, transfers wealth from the middle class to the rich, as real wages decline while the salaries of CEOs, movie stars, and athletes skyrocket-- along with the profits of the military industrial complex, the oil industry, and other special interests.

Economic law dictates reform at some point. But should we wait until the dollar is 1/1,000 of an ounce of gold or 1/2,000 of an ounce of gold? The longer we wait, the more people suffer and the more difficult reforms become. Runaway inflation inevitably leads to political chaos, something numerous countries have suffered throughout the 20th century. The worst example of course was the German inflation of the 1920s that led to the rise of Hitler. Even the communist takeover of China was associated with runaway inflation brought on by Chinese Nationalists. The time for action is now, and it is up to the American people and the U.S. Congress to demand it.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/?tag=Federal Reserve
 
Last edited:

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
Danny: If all of this is true. Then voting for anyone that has been a part of the current system is hypocritical. If you must vote for the least experienced spender of the 3 it would have to be Obama. If you vote for Hillary, she is a spender from way back. McCain is no different in the spending category. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. His love of war would certainly leave the budget strapped. What was it he said? we would be in Iraq for a 100 years if it took that long. 9 Billion a month for that would be a pile of change. If you look at the 3 remaining candidates we are out of luck. Good Post though. Thanks
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Robsdad, I don't like McCain but when you look at the records of all three, one stands out as the person who has been consistent with earmarks and other giveaways, McCain. You actauly need to sit down ans read Obama's bills in both the illinios senate and the US senate. He has yet to come up with anything that does not have spending involved.


Now onto this tripe from Ron Paul.

He misses a few things here and it seems that one is most of the world is no longer on the gold standard.

I think that he is playing to the commodities marketers who want to see the gold prices rise to cash in on the people who will get into a panic and buy, thinking that they are hedging against hyperinflation or a crash. But in reality, the prices of gold, like all other commodities is tied to the value of the dollar.

Now he says:
" Economic strength and military power contribute to the trust in a currency; in today’s world trust in the U.S. dollar is not earned and therefore fragile. The history of the dollar, being as good as gold up until 1971, is helpful in maintaining an artificially higher value for the dollar than deserved."

Sorry Mr. Paul, this is wrong. The US has been a stable investment market for years, actually since the 60's and countries have used our currency over their own because of the trust they had in our dollar. The problem is we are rescuing the people who made stupid mistakes by lowering interest rates, which makes our dollar even more weaker at the same time, the EU is artificially controlling the value of the Euro that further hurts our currency creditability. In addition to our debt load as a population and our out of control spending as consumers compounds the issues we face as a nation, we face more problems than the fragility of the dollar on the open world markets.

So back to this gold thing. Many who think we can simply go back to a gold standard are dreaming. First thing we really have to do is replace our tax system. Yes the Fair Tax is the only way to go, don't even think of a flat tax, we need to eliminate controlling things through the tax system by the congress. Ron Paul's idea of eliminating the IRS and not taxing things at all, is well rather foolish at this point. The next thing that we have to do if we want to go on the gold standard is confiscation of all the gold in private hands and setting the price per ounce back to $32 an ounce. This coupled with the revaluation of the dollar (going back to $20,000 homes and $2500 cars) will have to be done to ensure stability.

Now before anyone says anything about Iraq, I got to say that our social programs cost more than Iraq and return less.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
Greg:
Iraq is a quick fix for $9 billion a month. As for $20K house and $2500 cars they must both come with wheels. As for $32 gold per oz. not in mine or your lifetime. This country is too full of people that fit into the service side of working. I dare say right now it would be difficult for any farmer in this country to get any kid to help on the farm after school. We have raised a generation in this country that have turned into yuppies. Something for as little manual labor as possible. If the industry all came back to this country today we would have trouble manning the jobs. We are turning into a society that wants something for nothing. It will take a drastic cultural shock to get it turned in the other direction. When all you have to offer someone is a service job that pays barely more than the min. wage you see why so many would rather get it for free. Unions I admit are a reason for the plants going away from here. But I also believe that corporate greed played a big role in it also. As far as Obama's track record, the point I was making is his money trail is much shorter than the other two spenders. Not to say he hasn't learned from the others and will follow suit. I still have no idea who I will vote for. They all have so many negatives and very few positives. May just paint a coin blue and red and flip it up. No, I won't do that I would not give McCain a 50-50 shot like that.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Robsdad,
This is a struggle for me, I am trying to explain a couple things;

1 - the problem with Obama is he has no track record. Comparing McCain or Hillary to him is like comparing my animal control officer to bill clinton. As much as I do not like McCain, I think he has been consistent with the earmark issue a lot longer than Obama has been in office. And as I mentioned in another thread, you really need to take a look at how he got to where he is today, he is trained by the Chicago political machine, not just some kid out of a IVy league school into a 'activist' position then into state government, there is a lot to his 'climb' up the ladder with the status quo of politics in general. I feel I got to remind you that JFK didn't change politics, he unleashed a lot of people from his dad's friends into the federal level and LBJ spent some time cleaning up. Obama will, without a doubt have to pay back people who helped him climb that ladder to the WH and this will kill any changes you hope for.

2 - reread my statement, but if you don't want to - you got to understand that many are hoping to return to a gold standard, something that is not possible unless there is a confiscation of gold (without compensation), a fixed price which will have to be around the last fixed price ($32 an ounce) and a revaluation of the dollar. Without these three things, it won't ever ever work. Even the collapse of the dollar and reissuing of money will only be through a monitary fiat, not a monitary system based on commodity money or representative money, so the gold standard is out for good. The other thing is no one seems to look back at the fight in this country of 120 years or so ago between people who wanted free silver and those who didn't in our currency system.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
I hate that you have to explain things to me. I have never been a one to read a lot. I get much more out of listening. A paper will lay there and let you write anything on it. If it comes from your mouth I put more stock into it. I nor you know what the fix for this mess really is. What you are suggesting I don't see happening. The DC bunch will not be happy until they have spent us into bankruptcy. If we are not there already. I would like to know for my benefit, which one of these less than perfect soles you feel stands the best chance of fixing this mess?
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Robsdad..said.."This country is too full of people that fit into the service side of working. I dare say right now it would be difficult for any farmer in this country to get any kid to help on the farm after school. We have raised a generation in this country that have turned into yuppies. Something for as little manual labor as possible. If the industry all came back to this country today we would have trouble manning the jobs. We are turning into a society that wants something for nothing. It will take a drastic cultural shock to get it turned in the other direction. When all you have to offer someone is a service job that pays barely more than the min. wage you see why so many would rather get it for free. Unions I admit are a reason for the plants going away from here. But I also believe that corporate greed played a big role in it also"

How to shock this country back to reality? WW3.... full involvement blood and guts and draft!
Food shortages, blackouts, the whole scenerio....Todays youth have had it way too good...nothing like the shock value... a taste of blood sweat and mud...
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I hate that you have to explain things to me. I have never been a one to read a lot. I get much more out of listening. A paper will lay there and let you write anything on it. If it comes from your mouth I put more stock into it. I nor you know what the fix for this mess really is. What you are suggesting I don't see happening.

You hate me or what I write??

I get what you are saying but I do know what will fix things, I do know that there is hope and I do know what is going on in some places - no one knows everything everywhere.

It all starts with involvement, nothing more simpler than that.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
Greg I don't hate you. I don't hate anybody. Well maybe the Louisville Cardinals. Rivalry you know. I am a Kentucky fan so it runs deep here. I gonna quit talking about politics on here. I think I will cool it for a while and just read instead of post.
I'm out
robsdad
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Greg I don't hate you. I don't hate anybody. Well maybe the Louisville Cardinals. Rivalry you know. I am a Kentucky fan so it runs deep here. I gonna quit talking about politics on here. I think I will cool it for a while and just read instead of post.
I'm out
robsdad

Don't stop unless you are pulling your hair out. I say this because we need more from your point of view, it allows all of us to grow.

And I know you don't hate me, I can't find the words to express what I am thinking... too much beer for tonight....
 
Top