The Trump Card...

[OntarioVanMan]

My Uncle has so many 30 year plus employees that would literally burn at the stakes for him...he has always paid top wages even when he didn't have to...he believes a man needs a sense of pride especially when they do a hard job and is well reimbursed for the effort. They go that extra mile...they were able to support thier families in a high cost suburban home ...as my Uncle said...it makes no difference to him..10 bucks an hour or $25 bucks....just write it off and avoid corporate taxes...better to reward good employees then the taxman...
Truck drivers, heavy equipment operators,warehouse helpers

 

[Worn Out Manager]

That's the way I tried to operate when I was a business owner, pay a fair wage and treat employee with dignity. Worked well in 70's & 80's, by 90's I became a doormat to younger employees that always wanted more.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using EO Forums mobile app

 

[ATeam]

"This is a war:: Trump goes on offensive to spread distrust of Mueller investigation

So, it appears we are going to hear a lot more about the Mueller investigation from Trump and his re-election committee, and it is not likely to be complimentary. The new Chief of Staff (Kelly) is having no impact in that regard, except possibly to swing thins in a more anti-Mueller direction

That will make a lot of Trump supporters happy, or at least give added voice to those who want to express the same thoughts. It may make Trump happy too if he has the need to vent about this.

My question is, beyond emotional release, how does this help Trump?

Will it increase the size of his base?
Will it win him more votes in the next election?
Will it strengthen popular support for Republican candidates for congress in 2018?
Will it intimidate or slow Mueller?
Will it increase positive sentiment for Trump among the Republicans who serve in congress now?

I get it about emotional release. Politically, I don't see an advantage.

I do see a risk. By continually keeping the investigation in the spotlight, Trump distracts attention from other issues where sentiment must be swayed to move things through congress. Waging this "war" also reminds the general public every day that Trump is under investigation. It won't matter that Comey said he is not under investigation. Because Trump is reminding the public every day that the investigation exists, people will generally conclude that Trump is the target.

If I was advising Trump, I urge a different approach. I'd urge him to cooperate fully with the investigation so it can be quickly concluded and so people can learn that the investigation really was a "political hit job" as a Trump advisor described it. That would end the investigatory nonsense and free Trump and congress to focus on more productive and meaningful things.

Of course, the full-cooperation plan only works if there was no collusion and no crimes that the investigation would discover.

 

[Turtle]

Not necessarily true. If Walmart cost goes up they will absorb nothing. If McDonalds cost goes up it will be passed through and not one consumer of junk food will complain. And, regular workers will pay for it out of their pockets because they won't stop shopping at Walmart or eating at McDonald's, AND, their wages won't change because of a labor shortage in low end jobs. My opinion.

You've just excellently described supply and demand and what the market will bear. Thanks.

 

[Turtle]

My question is, beyond emotional release, how does this help Trump?

Trump is not keeping the investigation in the news. Even if Trump goes dark on the investigation, there will be a story every day in the press about it. And every one of them will be one sided, with every little tidbit being presented as an OMG bombshell. The Democrats have been charging Trump with collusion ever since the first Wikileaks release showing the Democrats and the Press colluded with each other. "Don't look here, look there! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

This whole thing has been politically motivated from the very beginning. As we all know, if you repeat something often enough, people will belive it, including never-Trump Republicans. If Trump goes silent, there will be little reason to doubt that the investigation was nonpartisan and completely unbiased. If Trump can keep doubt alive, then the findings, especially if they are outside the scope of the election campaign, can objectively be seen as the results of a partisan fishing expedition.

 

[muttly]

"This is a war:: Trump goes on offensive to spread distrust of Mueller investigation

So, it appears we are going to hear a lot more about the Mueller investigation from Trump and his re-election committee, and it is not likely to be complimentary. The new Chief of Staff (Kelly) is having no impact in that regard, except possibly to swing thins in a more anti-Mueller direction

That will make a lot of Trump supporters happy, or at least give added voice to those who want to express the same thoughts. It may make Trump happy too if he has the need to vent about this.

My question is, beyond emotional release, how does this help Trump?

Will it increase the size of his base?
Will it win him more votes in the next election?
Will it strengthen popular support for Republican candidates for congress in 2018?
Will it intimidate or slow Mueller?
Will it increase positive sentiment for Trump among the Republicans who serve in congress now?

I get it about emotional release. Politically, I don't see an advantage.

I do see a risk. By continually keeping the investigation in the spotlight, Trump distracts attention from other issues where sentiment must be swayed to move things through congress. Waging this "war" also reminds the general public every day that Trump is under investigation. It won't matter that Comey said he is not under investigation. Because Trump is reminding the public every day that the investigation exists, people will generally conclude that Trump is the target.

If I was advising Trump, I urge a different approach. I'd urge him to cooperate fully with the investigation so it can be quickly concluded and so people can learn that the investigation really was a "political hit job" as a Trump advisor described it. That would end the investigatory nonsense and free Trump and congress to focus on more productive and meaningful things.

Of course, the full-cooperation plan only works if there was no collusion and no crimes that the investigation would discover.

Do you have evidence that they aren't fully cooperating? What is it?
At least what I have heard and read is that Trump associate Paul Manafort, his son Don Jr, Carter Page have agreed to speak at Congressional investigations. I haven't heard that they are not cooperating with the Special Prosecutor as well.

 

[muttly]

"This is a war:: Trump goes on offensive to spread distrust of Mueller investigation

So, it appears we are going to hear a lot more about the Mueller investigation from Trump and his re-election committee, and it is not likely to be complimentary. The new Chief of Staff (Kelly) is having no impact in that regard, except possibly to swing thins in a more anti-Mueller direction

That will make a lot of Trump supporters happy, or at least give added voice to those who want to express the same thoughts. It may make Trump happy too if he has the need to vent about this.

My question is, beyond emotional release, how does this help Trump?

Will it increase the size of his base?
Will it win him more votes in the next election?
Will it strengthen popular support for Republican candidates for congress in 2018?
Will it intimidate or slow Mueller?
Will it increase positive sentiment for Trump among the Republicans who serve in congress now?

I get it about emotional release. Politically, I don't see an advantage.

I do see a risk. By continually keeping the investigation in the spotlight, Trump distracts attention from other issues where sentiment must be swayed to move things through congress. Waging this "war" also reminds the general public every day that Trump is under investigation. It won't matter that Comey said he is not under investigation. Because Trump is reminding the public every day that the investigation exists, people will generally conclude that Trump is the target.

If I was advising Trump, I urge a different approach. I'd urge him to cooperate fully with the investigation so it can be quickly concluded and so people can learn that the investigation really was a "political hit job" as a Trump advisor described it. That would end the investigatory nonsense and free Trump and congress to focus on more productive and meaningful things.

Of course, the full-cooperation plan only works if there was no collusion and no crimes that the investigation would discover.

The Washington Post and New York Times have been pretty much publishing stories everyday with their obligatory leaks included just to keep the Russian thing alive. They think they are so cute with those leaks too. They soooooo want to make this another Watergate. If they ever let the Russian thing go, democracy will die in darkness, or something.

 

[ATeam]

The Washington Post and New York Times have been pretty much publishing stories everyday with their obligatory leaks included just to keep the Russian thing alive. They think they are so cute with those leaks too. They soooooo want to make this another Watergate. If they ever let the Russian thing go, democracy will die in darkness, or something.

That's why I think it's in Trump's best interests to cooperate fully. The sooner Mueller concludes the investigation and issues his report, the sooner Trump's MSM foes will lose that issue to talk about. Granted, they'll likely remain critical of Trump on other topics, but that's no reason for Trump to prolong the investigation by fighting it and keeping it in the spotlight. The sooner he can make it go away by cooperating, the better it is for him. If he tries to make it go away by firing people or otherwise interfering with the investigation, he creates the impression he is guilty of something and hurts himself.

 

[Turtle]

Just keep track of how many people in the Russian investigation pleads the Fifth, versus how many people in the Hillary email and Intelligence unmasking investigations plead the same. That will tell us who is and is not cooperating.

 

[muttly]

The Washington Post and New York Times have been pretty much publishing stories everyday with their obligatory leaks included just to keep the Russian thing alive. They think they are so cute with those leaks too. They soooooo want to make this another Watergate. If they ever let the Russian thing go, democracy will die in darkness, or something.

That's why I think it's in Trump's best interests to cooperate fully. The sooner Mueller concludes the investigation and issues his report, the sooner Trump's MSM foes will lose that issue to talk about. Granted, they'll likely remain critical of Trump on other topics, but that's no reason for Trump to prolong the investigation by fighting it and keeping it in the spotlight. The sooner he can make it go away by cooperating, the better it is for him. If he tries to make it go away by firing people or otherwise interfering with the investigation, he creates the impression he is guilty of something and hurts himself.

Trump isn't prolonging it by 'fighting it((whatever that means) or keeping it in the spotlight'. The investigation is marching ahead at its own pace regardless. The things that would prolong it would be if they were withholding documents or refusing subpoenas.(haven't heard they are doing that) Or if Trump fired Mueller, which is probably unlikely because of political reasons. They would have to get a new SP or have the new FBI director conduct it. But it would be debatable It were prolonged or shortened as they may be much less likely to go on time consuming 'fishing expeditions.'

 

[ATeam]

Do you have evidence that they aren't fully cooperating? What is it?
At least what I have heard and read is that Trump associate Paul Manafort, his son Don Jr, Carter Page have agreed to speak at Congressional investigations. I haven't heard that they are not cooperating with the Special Prosecutor as well.

I don't want to take the time to do the research but a couple things come immediately to mind.

Failure to disclose meetings on security clearance forms requiring them to be updated later, more than once.
Failure to release tax return (not required but something previous presidents did).
Lying about the occurrence and purpose of the meeting with the Russian lawyer.
Refusing to voluntarily appear (Flynn) before a committee without an offer of immunity. (Flynn)
Firing the director of the FBI because of the investigation then conducted by the FBI
Going on the offensive to spread distrust of the Mueller investigation.

This does not paint a picture of transparency and cooperation. It makes Trump look like he has something to hide.

None of this is good for the country. I know it's wishful thinking but I'd like to see Trump and his team be more forthcoming. I'd like to see the investigation proceed in a fact-based and legal manner that respects the rights of all concerned, and I'd like to see the press stop trading in made-up stories based on unnamed sources and act more in accordance with the standards and ethics journalists claim their profession has. I'd also like to see politically-involved be more respectful and tolerant of each other's views instead of jumping quickly to immediately declare another to be an enemy or villian because he/she sees things differently.

 

[ATeam]

Just keep track of how many people in the Russian investigation pleads the Fifth, versus how many people in the Hillary email and Intelligence unmasking investigations plead the same. That will tell us who is and is not cooperating.

Once again ... the Hillary card.

While I do not disagree that Hillary should be investigated, it is not the case that just because Hillary or Obama did something wrong, it is OK for Trump to do something wrong too.

 

[Turtle]

Failure to disclose meetings on security clearance forms requiring them to be updated later, more than once.

Has nothing to do with cooperation in the investigation. Updating disclosures on security clearance forms isn't even unusual. That's why they allow updates.

Failure to release tax return (not required but something previous presidents did).

Not only is it not required, but it's not even remotely connected to cooperating with the investigation.

Lying about the occurrence and purpose of the meeting with the Russian lawyer.

When did he lie to investigators (either Mueller's or in Congress) about that meeting?

Refusing to voluntarily appear (Flynn) before a committee without an offer of immunity. (Flynn)

He stated that he would honor a subpoena, which is most definitely cooperation. He has turned over all documents that have been requested. The fact that he refused to be a human target in a witch hunt isn't exactly the litmus test for non-cooperation.

Firing the director of the FBI because of the investigation then conducted by the FBI

Trump fired Comey because despite Comey telling Trump that Trump was not under investigation, Comey refused to publicly correct the MSM narrative that Trump was, in fact, under investigation.

Going on the offensive to spread distrust of the Mueller investigation.

That doesn't mean Trump is not cooperating with the investigation.

This does not paint a picture of transparency and cooperation. It makes Trump look like he has something to hide.

Well, no, it wouldn't, when you bring in things that have nothing to do with the investigation and present them in the context of the investigation.

 

[muttly]

Do you have evidence that they aren't fully cooperating? What is it?
At least what I have heard and read is that Trump associate Paul Manafort, his son Don Jr, Carter Page have agreed to speak at Congressional investigations. I haven't heard that they are not cooperating with the Special Prosecutor as well.

Failure to release tax return (not required but something previous presidents did).

I think Turtle hit on most of the rest, but 'failure to release tax return' which he didn't do from the very beginning of his presidential run is now about not cooperating with the Russian investigation?
We don't even know definitely if Mueller has asked for the tax return or that Trump and his legal team has rebuffed that request.

 

[Turtle]

Just keep track of how many people in the Russian investigation pleads the Fifth, versus how many people in the Hillary email and Intelligence unmasking investigations plead the same. That will tell us who is and is not cooperating.

Once again ... the Hillary card.

While I do not disagree that Hillary should be investigated, it is not the case that just because Hillary or Obama did something wrong, it is OK for Trump to do something wrong too.

That's not the Hillary Card, that's the Those On The Left Will Obfuscate, Hold Back Documents, And Plead The Fifth Card. I'm not even talking about Hillary or Obama. I'm talking about the people around them who have demanded immunity in exchange for cooperation and then refused to cooperate, I'm talking about the guy who was in charge of Hillary's server, Brian Pagliano, whs refused to turn over requested documents and then said he would plead the Fifth rather than testify to Congress, I'm taling about how Lois Learner pleaded the Fifth in the IRS scandal, the time when Jeffrey Neely of the GSA invoked the fifth when he squandered $800,000 in taxpayer money at a GSA conference in Vegas when a picture of him sucking down wine while sitting in a hot tub surfaced, the IRS Deputry Director Greg Roseman invoked the Fifth as soon as Darrell Issa (R-CA) started asking Roseman about the panel's findings that he helped a friend procure potentially $500 million worth of IRS contracts, about the time when Patrick Cunningham, the chief of the criminal division of the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona, became the first of many to plead the Fifth in the Fast and Furious scandal, about how AG Eric Holder was found in Contemp of Congress for his brazen refusal to cooperate, and the conucopia of Veterans Affairs and EPA officials who have all pleaded the Fifth. I could go on, but you get the idea.

This is what the Left does. They're practicallly famous for it. And they're very good at it. Just like little children, they will lie and deny, blame somebody else, and never take responsibility for their own actions. Obama and Hillary have done the same thing (Hillary got caught lying about lying about lying, sheesh), but it's not about them, they're just part of the Left. There are absolutely exceptions to the rule, but by and large the Right tends to be more cooperative and take responsibility for their actions, whereas the Left will do everything they can think of to avoid it.

The Trump campaign turned over about 20,000 pages of documents on Aug. 2. Paul Manafort provided about 400 pages on the same day, including his foreign-advocacy filing, while Trump Jr. gave about 250 pages on Aug. 4.

Fusion GPS was asked to turn over documents by August 2, and as of today have turned over nothing, and the CEO has said he will plead the Fifth if asked to testify.

 

[muttly]

Just keep track of how many people in the Russian investigation pleads the Fifth, versus how many people in the Hillary email and Intelligence unmasking investigations plead the same. That will tell us who is and is not cooperating.

Once again ... the Hillary card.

While I do not disagree that Hillary should be investigated, it is not the case that just because Hillary or Obama did something wrong, it is OK for Trump to do something wrong too.

It's an interesting comparison nonetheless.
You had the Obama/Clinton IT employees pleading the Fifth and one skipping the hearing all together. Lol
And you have Paul Manafort, Jeff Sessions, and Carter Page all willing to testify at Congressional hearings. With Carter Page you had someone basically begging to come before a House hearing to testify and representative Adam(shifty) Schiff said no, we need more time.( translation : We need more time to push this Russian narrative. We don't need you coming before the committee and speaking the truth and clearing your name.)

 

[davekc]

Just keep track of how many people in the Russian investigation pleads the Fifth, versus how many people in the Hillary email and Intelligence unmasking investigations plead the same. That will tell us who is and is not cooperating.

Once again ... the Hillary card.

While I do not disagree that Hillary should be investigated, it is not the case that just because Hillary or Obama did something wrong, it is OK for Trump to do something wrong too.

That's not the Hillary Card, that's the Those On The Left Will Obfuscate, Hold Back Documents, And Plead The Fifth Card. I'm not even talking about Hillary or Obama. I'm talking about the people around them who have demanded immunity in exchange for cooperation and then refused to cooperate, I'm talking about the guy who was in charge of Hillary's server, Brian Pagliano, whs refused to turn over requested documents and then said he would plead the Fifth rather than testify to Congress, I'm taling about how Lois Learner pleaded the Fifth in the IRS scandal, the time when Jeffrey Neely of the GSA invoked the fifth when he squandered $800,000 in taxpayer money at a GSA conference in Vegas when a picture of him sucking down wine while sitting in a hot tub surfaced, the IRS Deputry Director Greg Roseman invoked the Fifth as soon as Darrell Issa (R-CA) started asking Roseman about the panel's findings that he helped a friend procure potentially $500 million worth of IRS contracts, about the time when Patrick Cunningham, the chief of the criminal division of the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona, became the first of many to plead the Fifth in the Fast and Furious scandal, about how AG Eric Holder was found in Contemp of Congress for his brazen refusal to cooperate, and the conucopia of Veterans Affairs and EPA officials who have all pleaded the Fifth. I could go on, but you get the idea.

This is what the Left does. They're practicallly famous for it. And they're very good at it. Just like little children, they will lie and deny, blame somebody else, and never take responsibility for their own actions. Obama and Hillary have done the same thing (Hillary got caught lying about lying about lying, sheesh), but it's not about them, they're just part of the Left. There are absolutely exceptions to the rule, but by and large the Right tends to be more cooperative and take responsibility for their actions, whereas the Left will do everything they can think of to avoid it.

The Trump campaign turned over about 20,000 pages of documents on Aug. 2. Paul Manafort provided about 400 pages on the same day, including his foreign-advocacy filing, while Trump Jr. gave about 250 pages on Aug. 4.

Fusion GPS was asked to turn over documents by August 2, and as of today have turned over nothing, and the CEO has said he will plead the Fifth if asked to testify.

Can't say that.

 

[ATeam]

Yesterday, while reading the news, I stumbled upon the Centrist Project. While participation in this EO forum has provided fun breaks from work and truly interesting conversations, it does not leave me with a feeling that it is meaningful political involvement. By meaningful, I mean taking action that makes an actual difference in the world. For me, participation here has been more about entertainment than civic engagement.

The Centrist Project is different. This initiative stirs the soul of a guy like me who once founded a third party and helped grow it to the point where we elected a governor. In America today, at the national level, the Democrats can't win and the Republicans can't govern. Trump is neither the answer or the problem. If he is impeached, the political divide between the left and right will continue and the hopelessly dysfunctional and corrupt two-party system will continue to be exploited by the far-left and far-right extremists who now control it.

There has to be a better way and I believe the Centrist Project may help us find it.

Accordingly, I'm shifting my focus off this forum and onto the Centrist Project. I may pop in from time to time but if you see less of me here, it's because the Centrist Project is providing a more meaningful and more satisfying way for me to scratch my political itch.

 

[blackpup]

Dartmouth Professor Charles Wheelan , Democratic candidate for Rahm Emanuel old seat in Illinois

 

[muttly]

'You can't go. All the plants will die.' - Movie Stripes (Just kidding )
But this Russian thing is just heating up, ready to pop.