Thanks A Team, sure hope you were right!

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Here are a couple of great quotes from Phil on the ramifications of having flat rate trucks in the fleet.

“If it is slow all over,....'"

In the interests of clarity, please note that I did not say it was slow all over. In the quote you cite, I am referring to a comment made by another member. She is saying it is slow all over. I do not agree. My "If it is slow all over" is stated for the purposes of conversation. Emphasis is on the "If."

Again, I do not believe it is slow all over. Click this link to read my comments in their full context.
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
The "all miles" sounds good for a regional truck, but one that does a lot of coast to coast, there's a big cha-ching for the Fed.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
1st of all, all the best with your new contract, and please let us know how it's working out.
as to the flat rate, this have being an ATA agenda for many years, no news here. the carriers job is to pay the contractor as little as possible to move that freight, and the Ex is certainly not the first one to introduced contractors competitions within it's own fleet, they just big and slow in executing the ATA business plan.
the carrier needs to lowers it's costumers costs, and that's why the ATA is actually a shippers representative in the market. when things will get bad enough contractors will vote with their feet. which is why the ATA is in favor of high turn over rates.& why most recruiters will never unveil that rate. most carriers will also never tell a contractor how mach of 'their freight' is moved by 'their own trucks'.
the good news, as you so kindly mention, is that you drive a dry van truck. so while the carrier is playing you against the rest of the fleet in one hand, and against the rest of the available trucks via it's brokerage arm - you can 'play' the carrier against the rest of the carriers, an option that is not as widely reached by others, more 'specialized trucks.
 

Skyline

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
I have been on the flat rate for straight truck with Fedex for 6 months and have been very successfull as a "Solo". Average monthly mileage comes to 10,400 @ $1 + FS and 100% for tolls. I accept every load,because it does not matter where they send me. Where I deliver is my new express center and they will deadhead me to where they want me next. I do not bother with how many other trucks are in the area. The best part is, I have only one dispatcher that I deal with! And yes, I have had many Fedex CC drivers that where rude to me at truck stops. But, more and more of them are joining the flat rate now. All the best to you all and be safe out there. Fedex DA7823
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
If you are running for a buck a mile after tolls and fuel (actually a little less than a buck a mile because the FDCC fuel surcharge expects you to pay $1.25 a gallon for fuel), what kind of life do you expect to live (food, clothing, shelter, vacations, retirement, etc.) and what kind of truck do you expect to buy when your present truck gives up the ghost?

I'm not asking this to be difficult. I'm genuinely interested to learn what buck-a-mile contractors are able to do or think they are able to do with that kind of compensation.
 

Deville

Not a Member
Buck a mile and the FSC is what I heard. I am guessing that is accurate. Almost sounds like a van rate but I could be wrong.

It's ranges from .85 to 1.05 a mile for vans & staright trucks. It's complete BS.

When FDCC put vans on this rate of pay 2 years ago I said that they would try to move everyone to a flat rate system. People laughed it off. Not only have they done that, it's basically one rate for whatever you drive. It's BS & it has to stop.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Hypothetically, if a Fedex OO had an average of 30% deadhead... (or would the average be more than that?)

If a load was say 1000 miles, deadhead at 30% was 300 miles on that trip, no tolls on this one.. the compensation would be $1716. Divide by the 1000 loaded miles, the rate is $1.716/LM.
How would that compare to the Fedex percentage system?

Why is there no concern about how many other trucks are in an express centre? Are the flat rate trucks given first priority... and does it no longer matter how long one sits?

How would it compare when one travels many miles before a load then becomes a dry run? How often does it happen where something happens and a load can't be run for one reason or another (not the right equipment, load cancels, ends up needing a different sized truck, etc)?

What happens if one arrives to a shipper and then has to end up waiting for several hours.. is this compensated?

It sounds like Fedex has shifted some of the financial risk onto themselves, as opposed to the contractor, for a price that might be viewed as tolerable by both parties?

If the percentage based contractors are having to wait longer for loads, and if they are getting shorter runs... it would only make sense that those contractors will need to increase the rate for which they run. If that is the case, then Fedex will be paying less on one hand, and paying more on the other hand.. and will it all work out the same (financially) in the end and kind of defeat the purpose? Although... if a percentage contractor negotiates for too high a price, it would likely end up being cheaper for Fedex to deadhead the flat rate contractor further, to take that load? If that is how it will work, they will just squeeze the percentage contractors out of the company.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Pjjjj,
Think of it this way -

Customer's needs need to be fulfilled.

FedEx is using this system in their freight system - flat rate per all miles when they figure out how much a customer's bill will be.

FedEx doesn't seem to care what the contractors think - never did, they will try different things like any good business and if it works, then they will stick with it.

People actually do make money with this, I think some of the regional work has been flat rate for a while and those guys don't seem to be starving. All Miles, Tolls and FSC - it seems not bad.

All the pieces of the puzzle are finally coming together.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
You think running on a flat rate you will run more miles,I dobt it.Last time they tried this,they had a riot amongs the tractor guys that tried it.THe only way a mileage program will work is with a sliding scale,short miles paying much more.
New company I'm with,I tried flat rate,quit that program after 1 week,back on pecentage.Im making more running solo than on flat rate running team.JUswt remember ,faster you put the miles on your tuck,sooner you will need to replace it.You need to take a look at your costs before you really see waht the flat rate will do for you.Good luck,your going to need it
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
It's ranges from .85 to 1.05 a mile for vans & staright trucks. It's complete BS.

When FDCC put vans on this rate of pay 2 years ago I said that they would try to move everyone to a flat rate system. People laughed it off. Not only have they done that, it's basically one rate for whatever you drive. It's BS & it has to stop.

Think it all started when their FSC structure changed. The fawns and bunnies with "rose colored glasses" were in a state of denial since then whether company equipment, numerous load offers based on price/flat rate preferential and the list goes on, but I think reality is likely setting in. Probably why Skyline is hitting some hostility from other drivers. Don't have to be at this carrier to see that. The bigger issue is it effects the whole industry. Freight is good right now with the exception of some of the auto freight and I hope this kind of stuff doesn't upset the apple cart. Operating at a buck a mile just seems like dying a slow death or I think you will start to see a lot of junk running down the road.
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
As far as I remeber Virginia Albanese has been all about "Discounting". That's all she ever talks about.

In response to A Teams "how do live on a Buck a mile"

It ain't easy that's for sure but I've been compaling about rates and having to turn 90% of the load offers for 3 years now. Now my truck only cost me 106K surface fleet only.

I think anyone in a 250K super truck should be very worried unless their truck is paid off and they're gonna quit when the eingine blows anyway.

I think in a couple of months I'm gonna go solo and send the wife to college while there is still life in my truck. Because the good ol days are good and gone Expedite has become a commodity, and commodities are cheap!



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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Think it all started when their FSC structure changed.

It did start with this on the fleet side but it really started with FedEx being tired of the separation between divisions and a lack of uniformity. Since CC is part of Freight, Freight hauls quantity and discounts rates, it only makes sense to move the CC fleet into a structure that they can use the capacity they have in order to fill the customer's needs. No one at CC will know what Memphis has in mind, they don't work that way so more changes may take place which may put a few in therapy.

I think that many were under the impression that FedEx was looking for partners, people who would become company people and sacrifice their business needs for the greater good of FedEx. But as you said the rose color glasses are finally coming off and the shock is too great for some.

For a long time I was told over and over that I was full of it and I said things to damage FedEx because I was spiteful or what ever, but it wasn't that at all. I was bringing some reality to the purple streamer world, and it all seems like a lot of what I said is true.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
It did start with this on the fleet side but it really started with FedEx being tired of the separation between divisions and a lack of uniformity. Since CC is part of Freight, Freight hauls quantity and discounts rates, it only makes sense to move the CC fleet into a structure that they can use the capacity they have in order to fill the customer's needs. No one at CC will know what Memphis has in mind, they don't work that way so more changes may take place which may put a few in therapy.

I think that many were under the impression that FedEx was looking for partners, people who would become company people and sacrifice their business needs for the greater good of FedEx. But as you said the rose color glasses are finally coming off and the shock is too great for some.

For a long time I was told over and over that I was full of it and I said things to damage FedEx because I was spiteful or what ever, but it wasn't that at all. I was bringing some reality to the purple streamer world, and it all seems like a lot of what I said is true.

I was basically told the same thing when a past contractor relationship never had anything to do with it. My interests lie in how it affects the rest of the industry and to debunk some of the goofy myths that were told from time to time.
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
If you are running for a buck a mile after tolls and fuel (actually a little less than a buck a mile because the FDCC fuel surcharge expects you to pay $1.25 a gallon for fuel), what kind of life do you expect to live (food, clothing, shelter, vacations, retirement, etc.) and what kind of truck do you expect to buy when your present truck gives up the ghost?

I'm not asking this to be difficult. I'm genuinely interested to learn what buck-a-mile contractors are able to do or think they are able to do with that kind of compensation.

So far in the last 31 days we have been on the road we have only run 10,800 miles at an average of $1.40 all miles including FSC and tolls. Hopefully we will get more miles on this new program. 13,000 miles on this program will beat the old percentage program we were on.

As far as living we have 7 acres and a 18,000 square foot 52 stall horse barn in Lake City, FL with 2000 square feet of living space. We own a paid for 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 (bought new). Our 06 Columbia is paid for. We have a 2007 John Deere tractor almost paid for. If we continue on the path we are on we will be debt free in about 3 years.
We own 3 horses and 5 dogs too.

We expect our truck to last 3 more years as it is an 06. After that time we may just retire from trucking and board horses.

We eat quite well as my rotund middle will attest. Most of our clothing comes from Walmart as we are simple folks who do not feel the need to purchase designer clothing. Vacations are taken at home in Florida enjoying the quite solitude of farm life.

Everyone is different and has there own wants needs and goals.
 

ts675

Seasoned Expediter
That sounds like a quite enjoyable life. Somehow your description of your place made me daydream back to when I was a kid. Glad you are successful and handled your business as just that.

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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
If a load was say 1000 miles, deadhead at 30% was 300 miles on that trip, no tolls on this one.. the compensation would be $1716. Divide by the 1000 loaded miles, the rate is $1.716/LM.
How would that compare to the Fedex percentage system?

It may be better to ask, how would that compare to how some percentage contractors deal with deadhead miles?

It has been stated many times in the Open Forum over the years, by some percentage contractors at least, that deadhead miles are not an issue at all because we price all miles the same. While the point has been repeatedly made, it also seems to be repeatedly missed.

Example (once again). Diane and I are offered a load that includes 200 miles empty and 1,000 miles loaded. The empty miles are the "deadhead" from our present location to the pick up. The 1,000 miles are the distance from the pick up to the delivery with freight on the truck.

What does the deadhead pay and what does the loaded pay? That is not even considered. We ask only, what does the run pay per mile?

To determine that, we add 1,000+200 to get the answer. It is a 1,200 mile run. We then look at the money being offered. If the pay is say $1,200, the run pays $1.00 per mile. If the pay is say $2,400, the run pays $2.00 per mile.

We accept or decline a run based on the per mile rate calculated as above. In a very real sense, there are no deadhead miles or loaded miles in any run we do. There are only miles.

A run that had 200 miles empty and 1,000 miles loaded would be viewed exactly the same as a run that had 1,000 miles empty and 200 miles loaded.

Our cost to drive a mile is the same no matter what you call it. We look at the miles and then the money, and then decide whether to take the load or not.

Flat rate contractors who say they get all miles paid are telling us nothing new. Diane and I have been getting all miles paid on every load since 2003 when we started driving.

True deadhead miles would be something like driving home at our own expense, going out of service to drive to a truck show (also at our own expense), or driving 300 miles to get to a trusted truck dealer (or any distance to any dealer for that matter) for service work. We don't get paid for such miles and flat rate contractors do not either.

Another example would be driving at our own expense from say Denver to Kansas City to better position oursleves for freight after finding Denver slow.

In the past, we almost never did such a thing because we almost never had to. There were enough great loads out there that we could afford to wait in Denver for something to bubble up hundreds, or even over a thousand miles away.

The introduction of flat rate trucks with preferential dispatch into the FedEx Custom Critical fleet has changed that. We no longer have the luxury of taking loads into remote areas because the flat rate trucks are getting the great loads that used to bubble up and get us out.

While we are adapting to that by staying east (where we won't have to drive anywhere to be close enough to active freight) our approach to deadhead remains exactly the same. We get paid for all miles because we only accept runs that pay well enough to profitably fund all miles.
 
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EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
ATeam,
I think what u r driving at is that the white glove folks are next to be hosed. I believe you are correct.

Upon reflection the new dispatch system was designed to push Surface trucks slowly out of the fleet either through attrition or flat rate switching. Once that has smoothed out wHite glove will be next.

This is one of the few things Greg and I agree about Fedex is chanding there whole business system. I even predicted flat rate was coming on this BB and all the FECC said I was crazy.

Anyway the good news for you is you have paid your truck so now you guys can chill. I feel bad for others in the supertrucks because they cost so much more to replace and to run.

The flat rate won't work for a super truck because your replacement costs are twice what a surface truck is.

But see the tea leaves within 2 years the whole fleet will probly be flat rate. It makes the most sense for FECC.

That may be bad or good I guess it Depends on how low the FLAT rate is. If I was in a super truck I know I would need an additional 15 cents a mile for replacement cost.

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nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
I'm, now out of the expedite business,as most of my ffriends know.My truck is now 3 weeks old.there was 1400 miles when I picked it up,ran team 1st week,did 4300 miles,since then been solo.I'm just deliveed my 6th load,4th load running solo.For the 2 solo weeks did 7000 dollars and just 4800 miles.,and no co drive to pay.Tomorrow afternoon,I load in Ft Erie ONT,deliver Tuesday Murfreesboro Tn,Drop and Hook there,load going to Miami,for Thursday,reload Fri,West Palm Beach,back too Where I started,west Seneca NY(Buffalo). 3020 miles and and 4670 dollars.Running team 1st week on flate rate,averaged 1.14 all miles.So far my dead head had been minimal, under the percentage deal,which helps.
Bottom line,Im dooing about what I have always done in expediting as far as overal money per mile,and I get to choose where I want to go.Nice when they offer you multi amount of loads to choose from.Flat rate,good luck,you will need it,dont kid your self,more miles in the long run costs you more,the fixed costs go down,but the variables will skyrocket,with the extra miles.
 
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