Georgia vs. Russia

[OntarioVanMan]

I don't know...greg knows that stuff *L*...I was just showing the expansionism....from the other side of the moon....

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili had gambled on a surprise attack late Thursday to regain control over his country's pro-Russian breakaway province of South Ossetia. Instead, Georgia suffered a punishing beating from Russian tanks and aircraft that has left the country with even less control over territory than it had before

Georgia started this crap...and got their butts kicked as they should have....

We can't defend a "supposed" ally when they are in the wrong...

UPdate...Looks like you got your response to this ...sending in Humanitarian aide by military....a measured response.

 

[layoutshooter]

Sorry OVM but Gorgia WAS an indepent nation at one time, BEFORE Soviet expansion. I am behind almost ANYONE who stands up against Socialist Rule!!! The Russians did this same thing in Hungary in 1956 and Chezkslovakia in 1968. They stood up for themselves, for freedom, and were slaughtered. The U.S. did nothing then and the slaughter continued in Eastern Europe right up the to fall of the Berlin Wall. The Polish stood up in the '80's and the Soviets moved into the streets of Warsaw with T60's. It is starting again. I can't remember which Russian general said the following: There is no need to attack the United States to defeat them, all we have to do is make peace with them. We lull them into a false sense of security. We infiltrate thier schools and colleges and in time we will defeat them from within. A bit of a para-phrase since I am going back almost 20 years to remember. This has been thier plan all along. They started in 1948 and continues today. There was no Cold War, it WAS WW3 and millions died as a result of the in-action of counties like the U.S., Canada, England, West Germany, France etc etc etc. The death toll in Soviet Russia between 1946 and 1988 was over 25 million. That does not include the millions from Poland, Hungary, Chezk, Germany, Gorgia, Mongolia, and on and on and on. It is a crime that what REALLY happened over those years is NEVER mentioned on news programs or in history classes. BUT, read the quote from above and you will know why. This is not my being "stuck in a Cold War Mentality" I am not being paraniod. These things happened. They are FACTS!!! It is starting again!!! Watch out Eastern Europe!!!! Of couse, ALL over Europe has strict gun control laws. USE PEA SHOOTERS AGAINST THOSE SOVIETS TANKS!!!!! Layoutshooter

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I have no recourse but to concede to your point as I am not that informed to the history...BUT I have one distinct advantage...I am not baised by my citizentry....neither being Russian nor American...I can see the whole picture where you only assume to from your vantage point....I see your point of "the Commies are coming" But I also see the spread of Americanism biting into the socialist way of life as well....We are just as threatening to them as they are to us....the battle will rage on...

Only history I know of everytime theres a big economic downturn a war,confict is immenient....nothing improves the economy like a war.....

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Beside shooter if it weren't for me...you guys wouldn't have a mule to beat on in the soapbox.......*LOL*

 

[layoutshooter]

The So-Called "Cold War" was started by the Soviets when they "shut down the gates" in Berlin, I can't remember if it was '47 or '48. The United States, with help mainly from England, flew round the clock re-supply flights into West Berlin for months. Those flights were the only reason West Berlin was able to have ANY food or fuel for the entire blockaid. I can't believe you were never taught this in school when you were growing up. The U.S. aided Russia to the tune of billions during WW2. We never attacked them, even once. We responded ONLY when they provoked the issue in Berlin. We should have put a stop to them then. We have to again, but we won't. Read the history of the Berlin Airlift. The U.S. has not stayed in any country we have fought in except under a Statute of Forces agreement for mutual defense puposes. Once the Occupation of Nazi Germany and Japan ended, we left. Period. Socialism in itself is not the problem, it is how it is represented in the world today. It is being used to keep people under control and doscile. It did not even work in it's purest of forms, Christ's apostles. They could not handle it all that well. It is by it's very nature against human nature. Man wants to profit from his labor. Socialism denies that fact. Most of the places it has been tried it has been done by force. Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, China, Viet Nam etc etc etc. Canada started slowly and increased the grip over the years, much like what is being done in this country. Remember the old "Frog" rule. "If you throw a frog into boilling water he will jump right out but if you throw a frog into nice warm water and then turm up the heat you will have frog soup." That is how socialists "get you" to like the system, once it has been in place long enough people become "domesticated" and are easily duped. Layoutshooter

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Iam absorbing your statement....

 

[layoutshooter]

The Berlin Airlift started on June 24th, 1948 and ended on May 12th, 1949. According to one artical it has been called the "Greatest Humanitarian Relief Effort in History." Had the U.S. been the "war-mongoring" nation they think we would have attacked, insted we flew food, fuel etc. Maybe we should have hit the Soviets BEFORE they got the bomb, millions would have never died and millions more would have NEVER been enslaved. Which country was/is the war monger? We did not learn in '39 with Hitler, in '48 with Stalin. We did a little in Korea, Viet Nam, Nicaragara, Cambodia etc but not nearly enough. Same now, only playing with the Middle East. Take them now while they are weak or face a huge war latter. THAT is the reason history needs to be taught, not glossed over as it is done now. I had a history teacher in HS try to give me/the class a raft of horse hockey over our use of nukes at the end of WW2. I asked him is he was aware of the type of fight the Japanesse put up on Okinawa? He did not. He was not aware of how the would not give up or stop fighting. He was not aware of the estimated death toll of a mainland invasion of Japan. In the tens of millions counting Japanesse/allied and civilian loses. There are plenty of good books out there on the subject although it is getting harder to find them. The truth about what happened with Soviet Russia after WW2 is being eleminated from history classes and being replaced with a more polilitcally correct version, mainly one that shows the U.S. and the West as the agressor. I get the feeling that you might have been taught history by the second method. If so, you were done a mis-service. Layoutshooter

 

[layoutshooter]

Don't want to absorb too much, you will turn into frog soup!!!! Just a joke. Layoutshooter

 

[OntarioVanMan]

My history consisted of alot of the 1812 stuff, Plains of Abraham your Revolution....1960 I would have been 10 not alot of referenced history on WW2 yet. Never learned the US as bad guys...the russians wore the black hats...My relatives were alittle put off with the hesitation of the US to enter WW2...lost a few uncles in 39-40. you can see why?

 

[layoutshooter]

I said all along we screwed up in 1939. Of course so did Nevel Chaimberlin, Prime Minister of England prior to Winston Churchill. His idea was apeasement of Hilter after his invasion of Poland. He though that if we talked and said ok but only if you stop there, that they would stop. The US was in a bit of isolationalsim at the time. We did not want to become involved in Europes problems. Many though since Europe has been fighting for thousands of years there is no reason for us to get involved. Sound familure? Also, Germany had infiltrated the US heavily prior to the out set of WW2 and had many "rable rousers" in place to insure that congress got the messege that we did not want to get involed. Much like what the Soviets did post WW2. Layoutshooter

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I said all along we screwed up in 1939. Of course so did Nevel Chaimberlin, Prime Minister of England prior to Winston Churchill. His idea was apeasement of Hilter after his invasion of Poland. He though that if we talked and said ok but only if you stop there, that they would stop. The US was in a bit of isolationalsim at the time. We did not want to become involved in Europes problems. Many though since Europe has been fighting for thousands of years there is no reason for us to get involved. Sound familure? Also, Germany had infiltrated the US heavily prior to the out set of WW2 and had many "rable rousers" in place to insure that congress got the messege that we did not want to get involed. Much like what the Soviets did post WW2. Layoutshooter

That said....

I still think Georgia was playing a very serious game by the "sneak attack" I hope President Bush reamed thier butts in private for trying to provoke the west to come to the rescue...

 

[layoutshooter]

Again, the history of the area has and is being "altered" for what ever reason. Georgia was a seperate nation, it was taken over by force by Russia and ruled by force for over 200 years. The Soviets contiuned that force on them until the sort of break up of the Soviet Union. It appears that the area might be used as a jump off point for the formation of the new Soviet Union. You can bet that the new one won't be as nice as the old one was. We do not want a repeat of '39, '48, '56, '68. We the US, Canada, England, Germany, Poland, France, and who ever else needs to send troops in NOW to back the Georgian government. If we don't, well, not one reads history anyway. Layoutshooter

 

[layoutshooter]

It seems, from what I have read, that the President has reemed the Russians butt, at least in public, and told them to leave, the right response. There are US aircraft with supplies being sent to the area. Just as in '48 during the Berlin Airlift, humanitarian aid. Food, medicines etc. NOT military supplies, at least not yet! Good thing I am not running the country. I would not be so "nice" about this. Layoutshooter

 

[OntarioVanMan]

It seems, from what I have read, that the President has reemed the Russians butt, at least in public, and told them to leave, the right response. There are US aircraft with supplies being sent to the area. Just as in '48 during the Berlin Airlift, humanitarian aid. Food, medicines etc. NOT military supplies, at least not yet! Good thing I am not running the country. I would not be so "nice" about this. Layoutshooter

I watched the video..he was intent to stress certain words...so the russians would get the message...don't mess with the aid...
That puts the game back on the russians to show intent...

Georgia still needs a spanking for igniting this issue....I DON'T trust Georgia....I still contend they planned this long time ago....

Kuwait used to belong to Iraq until taken from them by the British....it's the same comparison by history your using?

 

[layoutshooter]

Similar, but not the quite the same. I don't think Kuwait used force against Iraq. The Kuwiat people are not very well alinged with the Iraqi, differnet sects I think. I am not up on the Middle east like I am with Russia etc. I spent a 20 year career fighting the Russians and one must know one's enemy to fight them well. Layoutshooter

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Similar, but not the quite the same. I don't think Kuwait used force against Iraq. The Kuwiat people are not very well alinged with the Iraqi, differnet sects I think. I am not up on the Middle east like I am with Russia etc. I spent a 20 year career fighting the Russians and one must know one's enemy to fight them well. Layoutshooter

I'll go with that....gotta run...sometimes they expect us to drive....interesting concept eh?

Thanks for the history lesson....

One of these days I'll straighten you out on Canada!!!*L*

 

[layoutshooter]

Okee Dokee!!! Look me up when I am home someday, Between Monroe MI and Toledo. You can come by and we can share an adult beverage or 3 and our shower is always hot and clean, NO CHARGE!! LOL Layoutshooter

 

[aristotle]

How many times do we have to pull Europe's chestnuts out of the fire? Why are they hesitant to defend themselves? The European Union(EU) has a GDP similar to ours, they could marshal the resources if they had the will. Putin knows America is preoccupied with Iraq, Iran, Afganistan. We(America) are busy bickering amongst ourselves and Putin sees our vulnerabilities. The Lilliputians in Congress keep us divided along party lines while Russia consolidates power.
We are in an awful mess this time. The United Nations is useless and China holds most of our national debt. This Globalism, multi-nationalism, New World Order mentality is bringing us to the brink.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Maybe they don't see the threat this time as you do...???

 

[layoutshooter]

They see it, most don't care, most of Europe is headed the way of Russia anyway. The rest just bury thier heads in the sand. They hope it will just all go away, just like Hitler did. Europe is controled by Socialists for the most part. There is little freedom there. I watched many a bright child in England not given a good education because they did not fit the role. Those who were educated got only what they needed to do what ever they trained for, nothing else. I will tell you about the plastic bottles and the water some day. Over here we just drug kids who don't conform, easier to control drugged kids. Ever wonder why soooo many kids are on Ritilan? If Henry Ford was around today he would have been on it. He was known to just jump up and turn handsprings in class, ADHD. Pass out the pills, we are next. Layoutshooter