hence the rotating recruiting door...also incurring additional expense...no win scenerio
Anyone know the name of these companies running penske cube vans?
- Thread starter bfields115
- Start date
dajablu
Seasoned Expediter
I have noted that most old penske cubes over 12 ft are over 10001# GVW. So, that being said most are illegal and under insured if they are even insured,check out most of the drivers, they don't often speak English, the prayer rugs on the dash and the towel on the head are a dead giveaway.
Whose that? Panther?
What a thread full of madness. Here is what I see with regard to the rogue operators. The problem isn't going to fix itself as long as many of the companies continue to use them. When it slows, they utilize their services even more to prop up their balance sheets. Charge to customer close to regular rate and dump it on a bargain hauler and pocket the rest. Goes on like crazy. I see with my own eyes and numerous reports show the same thing. Yep, back to that "sins of the past, and really the present". Hopefully things will change down the road but it will take incentive through litigation or some type of enforcement. If not, little will change unless there is a demand from customers.
Too much is price driven to change those odds at the present.
Bottom line until then, is to provide something they don't service wise. Small to medium carriers can only push so hard because they rely on the large carriers to operate.
Trying to tame a monster that the industry itself created isn't easy.
Too much is price driven to change those odds at the present.
Bottom line until then, is to provide something they don't service wise. Small to medium carriers can only push so hard because they rely on the large carriers to operate.
Trying to tame a monster that the industry itself created isn't easy.
now that is what I can not understand.....what can a large carrier do that a large 3pl or direct broker can not?...they all handle customers shipping needs....
As stated before, the real problem are carriers who give these under insured vehicles work. Regardless of color or type of vehicle. I personally witnessed three cube vans deliver cargo to the GM Spring Hill TN plant right before they shut down. How can under insured or not insured at all vehicles bid or get work from such a huge company? I have alot to learn.
A carrier typically will have much more control over a shipment verses a 3pl or broker. No....they aren't the same if you know anything about how freight moves. It is that reason a broker or 3 pl will call a carrier to move something. It isn't often a carrier would call a broker to move something. They call another carrier typically.
But most carriers have a broker division and transfer loads back-and-forth as they see fit?
Working on it. Educating shippers to the possible liability is a key part of cleaning this mess up.
WOW! I really try to be a nice guy and only post to help others. Not sure how to take your post OVM especially since you have never worked with PTL.
To help you better understand the .05 rate reduction on LOADED miles at Premium it is because we are finally began publicizing and placing into our contract a rate for empty miles - we never publicized in our leases before that we paid empty miles. Our new program is called AMP - which stands for all miles paid. I am disappointed that nobody posted on the forums in 2014 and early 2015 when drivers were demanding much more money than their contracted rates - many times greater and in multiples of the 5 cents................................ Just sayin'.
Now to more important issues - insurance, lack of insurance and incorrect insurance AND the ideas of negligence and vicarious liability. John Elliott is correct - there are correct insurances available that can support the "multi" model. Surely most of the rogue carriers do not ensure the insurances carried by their multi drivers and themselves fulfill all requirements. As far as being underinsured - FMCSA mandates the minimum levels of coverage a carrier should maintain based on the commodities hauled and that carrier must maintain that minimum level of insurance. Because of the rising costs with medical care expenses and litigation after CMV accidents, I suppose that many carriers could be considered to be "under-insured". Being underinsured could happen just to pay the medical and physical damage type claims that may come with a catastrophic accident. Let's face it, any size vehicle from cargo van to semi-tractor could be involved in a multi-fatality accident which could result with a claim over $1 million. Most carriers will purchase Excess Liability insurance to add layers to that first $1 million. Very, very, very expensive.
Now let's look at "punitive damages". Punitive damages are monetary awards given to plaintiffs after an accident due to negligence. What constitutes negligence? Things like exceeding the Hours of Service Regulations by any amount of time would be considered negligence if the accident occurred after the HOS violation. Vehicles not properly maintained (yes they conduct roadside post-accident vehicle inspections) is cause for negligence; drivers not properly trained (and carriers are held responsible for training even owner-operators) and a whole myriad of any other "infractions" or "violations". Insurance does NOT cover punitive damages. Please think about that - insurance does not cover punitive damages.
Vicarious liability is when the plaintiff seeks claims or awards from other involved in the business chain of events like Brokers or 3PL's and others.
Hope this helps with a better understanding.
Thanks,
To help you better understand the .05 rate reduction on LOADED miles at Premium it is because we are finally began publicizing and placing into our contract a rate for empty miles - we never publicized in our leases before that we paid empty miles. Our new program is called AMP - which stands for all miles paid. I am disappointed that nobody posted on the forums in 2014 and early 2015 when drivers were demanding much more money than their contracted rates - many times greater and in multiples of the 5 cents................................ Just sayin'.
Now to more important issues - insurance, lack of insurance and incorrect insurance AND the ideas of negligence and vicarious liability. John Elliott is correct - there are correct insurances available that can support the "multi" model. Surely most of the rogue carriers do not ensure the insurances carried by their multi drivers and themselves fulfill all requirements. As far as being underinsured - FMCSA mandates the minimum levels of coverage a carrier should maintain based on the commodities hauled and that carrier must maintain that minimum level of insurance. Because of the rising costs with medical care expenses and litigation after CMV accidents, I suppose that many carriers could be considered to be "under-insured". Being underinsured could happen just to pay the medical and physical damage type claims that may come with a catastrophic accident. Let's face it, any size vehicle from cargo van to semi-tractor could be involved in a multi-fatality accident which could result with a claim over $1 million. Most carriers will purchase Excess Liability insurance to add layers to that first $1 million. Very, very, very expensive.
Now let's look at "punitive damages". Punitive damages are monetary awards given to plaintiffs after an accident due to negligence. What constitutes negligence? Things like exceeding the Hours of Service Regulations by any amount of time would be considered negligence if the accident occurred after the HOS violation. Vehicles not properly maintained (yes they conduct roadside post-accident vehicle inspections) is cause for negligence; drivers not properly trained (and carriers are held responsible for training even owner-operators) and a whole myriad of any other "infractions" or "violations". Insurance does NOT cover punitive damages. Please think about that - insurance does not cover punitive damages.
Vicarious liability is when the plaintiff seeks claims or awards from other involved in the business chain of events like Brokers or 3PL's and others.
Hope this helps with a better understanding.
Thanks,
John, not to give you nightmares but you brought up a good point.
HOS. If I were a lawyer,and I often wish I had pursued that path, and your van was involved in a situation with my client, that would have resulted in a violation in a regulated vehicle, my defense would be you should follow the HOS guidelines.
You don't HAVE to, but they are what FMCSA deems safe.
Is there a reason, other than profits, to not adopt them ?
I understand why you do what you do, but I bet I could convince most juries any van operation is putting profits before safety.
Edit: It wouldn't even have to be after the HOS is up.
Your driver is fatigued from yesterday.
Or last week's run.
You actually may be an easier target than a regulated driver that can show he has had his allotted time off, thus we know he's fully rested.
Second edit: this post was no way directed towards John or PTL.
John is one of the finest people representing our industry.
This post was just me thinking out loud and presenting food for thought.
HOS. If I were a lawyer,and I often wish I had pursued that path, and your van was involved in a situation with my client, that would have resulted in a violation in a regulated vehicle, my defense would be you should follow the HOS guidelines.
You don't HAVE to, but they are what FMCSA deems safe.
Is there a reason, other than profits, to not adopt them ?
I understand why you do what you do, but I bet I could convince most juries any van operation is putting profits before safety.
Edit: It wouldn't even have to be after the HOS is up.
Your driver is fatigued from yesterday.
Or last week's run.
You actually may be an easier target than a regulated driver that can show he has had his allotted time off, thus we know he's fully rested.
Second edit: this post was no way directed towards John or PTL.
John is one of the finest people representing our industry.
This post was just me thinking out loud and presenting food for thought.
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bfields115
Seasoned Expediter
I might be wrong, but I think the quickest solution to weeding out these carriers and brokers that have driven down rates for drivers and carriers/brokers because they use vehicles, drivers, and crooked practices with insurance, as in not having the "industry standard amount", to keep their overhead/cost low, would be load boards such as sylectus being aware of the importance and need to verify their insurance and/or credentials. T,his is not difficult to do. I have been seeing lately more and more drivers driving "company vans", of all types, for .30-.40 cpm. It is forced dispatch and they are often not US citizens or they are felons with few work options, or they are 47 and still living with their Mother, sorry.
If Cheesey Auto Parts is known to use these people the legit carriers need to look at two options.
They should cover none of that frieght. They are just aiding and abetting Cheesey while Cheesey is killing thier business.
Let the illegals have it all until they take Cheesey down with them through accidents, damaged freight, or missed deliveries.
The other would be a bad business practices surcharge. Your illegal broke down ? We'll rescue you at double our rate.
The first would be easier/better in my book.
They should cover none of that frieght. They are just aiding and abetting Cheesey while Cheesey is killing thier business.
Let the illegals have it all until they take Cheesey down with them through accidents, damaged freight, or missed deliveries.
The other would be a bad business practices surcharge. Your illegal broke down ? We'll rescue you at double our rate.
The first would be easier/better in my book.
Just wondering...if insurance doesn't cover punitive damages, what's my 2 million for? Freight?
bfields115
Seasoned Expediter
That's a great idea. But I think too many are desperate for work right now with the way the business is. I just talked to a straight truck diver last week from load 1 who had rescued a load recently from a cube van when the axle broke from being over loaded.