What Rice's non-apology doesn't cover

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Oct 25, 2007 04:30 AM
Thomas Walkom

The most painful element of Condoleezza Rice's admission that the U.S. made mistakes handling the Maher Arar case is how grudging her non-apology is.

Rice, now U.S. President George W. Bush's secretary of state, acknowledged to a congressional committee yesterday that her government blew it when it arrested Arar in New York five years ago and bundled him off to Syria to be tortured for information.

But she didn't apologize for the substantive injustice done to Arar. She didn't apologize for deporting a Canadian citizen to Syria (a country he left as a teenager) rather than Canada. She didn't apologize for her government's role in mistakenly identifying Arar as an Al Qaeda terrorist. Nor did she apologize for the U.S. government's so-called extraordinary rendition program, of which the Arar case was but one example.

And in spite of a judicial inquiry in Canada that concluded Arar was tortured during his year-long imprisonment in a Syrian dungeon, she didn't apologize for that. Indeed, she didn't even acknowledge it, referring instead to "claims" of mistreatment. (This from someone whose own state department regularly publishes reports detailing Syria's use of torture.)

All she did was say that her government erred by not telling Ottawa ahead of time that it was deporting Arar to Syria.

"We do not think this case was handled as it should have been," she told the House of Representatives foreign affairs committee. "Our communication with the Canadian government about this was by no means perfect. In fact, it was quite imperfect."

Which, in itself, is somewhat of an understatement.

As Justice Dennis O'Connor's inquiry into the Arar affair found, the U.S. not only failed to tell Canada it was deporting Arar to Syria, it lied.

On the very day that the removal decision was being made in New York, FBI agents were still telling the RCMP that he would soon be returned to Canada.

In spite of repeated requests for information, the Americans didn't tell Canada's foreign affairs department they had sent Arar anywhere until two days after he'd been wakened at 4 a.m., hustled into a small plane and flown to the Middle East. Even then, they refused to say where they had sent him.

So, yes, there were some "communication" problems.

But these pale beside the substance of what happened to the Canadian computer engineer courtesy of the Bush government (and, as Canada has acknowledged, the RCMP) – the savage beatings, the nightmare of being locked up in a rat-infested grave-like dungeon for months on end, the whittling away of hope.

Arar is still recovering.

Yet, as British journalist Stephen Grey details in his book Ghost Plane, the Canadian's experience is not unique. Grey estimates hundreds around the world have been scooped up secretly by American agents as part of Bush's so-called war on terror and flown, without trial, to U.S. proxy states in the Middle East and Europe so they can be tortured for information.

What makes Arar so unusual is that he is one of the few to get out alive and tell his story.

Which, perhaps, is why the U.S. government still feels compelled to discredit him, still keeps him on a no-fly list, still leaks damaging stories about him to the media.

And which is perhaps why Rice's mea culpa yesterday was so grudging. For if Washington were to acknowledge the full scale of its crimes against Maher Arar, it would have to lay open this whole shameful business.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
OVM,
Sorry but I can't find much sympathy here for a number of reasons, mainly that there are far more egregious acts committed against the very citizens of this country to be concerned about over one person who was repatriated to a former homeland of theirs. What happened there was on Syrian soil and Canada was informed and did nothing to gain his release.

I do know that we as a country over stepped our bounderies by having laws like the Torture Victims Protection Act that open our courts for litigation on something that happened on the soil of another country.

I am waiting for the US to stop ignoring real issues of it's citizens and close its borders. I am waiting for the US to apologize for the acts committed by the US government against my relatives during WW2.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Then reverse the situation....If Canada deported an American citizen back to thier origin country??
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Then reverse the situation....If Canada deported an American citizen back to thier origin country??

It happened in my family.

I had a cousin who came here from Yugoslavia, he fled or defected in the 50's and was considered by the state department as an important person in fighting the cold war - he was a staff member of Tito's, handling the money end of things for the mild mannered dictator. He became a citizen in 1969 and lived a quiet life with the money he stole from the communist country.

In 1974, He went to Lemington to visit his brother and his family on Christmas day, an annual trip for him since his brother moved to Canada in 1959. While they were having dinner the RCMP knocked on the door and arrested him for some crimes he supposedly committed while he was in charge of something over there that really he had nothing to do with. They held him for 3 weeks without allowing him to see anyone and then against protests from the US state department, he was shipped back to Europe. We never found out what happened to him after he arrived back there, he just disappeared. The really sad thing is, his estate was settled the day Tito died.

Even though he was no angel by any means, he wasn't the one the Canadians were after and what happened to him was more common then not. This is a guy who just loved the freedom we all have and fought hard to get over here. He helped a lot of people escape but it was some 'mistake' that forced him to go back and we assume he was killed in an hour after he got off the plane.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Hummm Thats interesting. Back in the 50's was a paranoid time for the U.S. and Canada sooo much anti-communist fright. It wasn't right that your uncle was prolly killed for a mistake. If he was wanted on an International warrant he should've been deported to the U.S. and let them find out the facts and deport him if necessary.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Hummm Thats interesting. Back in the 50's was a paranoid time for the U.S. and Canada sooo much anti-communist fright. It wasn't right that your uncle was prolly killed for a mistake. If he was wanted on an International warrant he should've been deported to the U.S. and let them find out the facts and deport him if necessary.

OVM,
the thing is the US went through the right channels and did what they could. My contention is that we have laws here that protect people in foreign soil which actually takes our rights away by taking our finite resources to do things that we should not get involved with. One thing is we should never ever recognize the need for a country that wants to have a trial for something that did not happen on their soil. The solution is not to have an international court, because there is no real system in place that allowed any fair system for some people from some countries and when you understand how that system works, you lose your rights and your country has no obligation to assist you.

What I mean is that the international court and justice system is just like the EU and circumvents basic rights and sovereignty of individual countries. Here is a court system that is not setup to determine if you are a soldier or a civilian when it comes to some crimes and the US has refused to get involved and sign some of the treaties in order to protect our citizens. Now only if they get their cr*p together on what the constitution is all about, it would be a better place to live.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
News to me that we are buddy buddy with Syria and they will torture someone because the US says so,Get real.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
OVM you know what gets me about you Ken. You came to this country from Canada. You did everything right and became a US Citizen. Yet now most of your posts and threads do nothing but denigrate this country and it's policies. So my question is ,Why did you give up your Canadian Citizenship to come to a place that you seem to despise?

I certainly would not move to another country that I felt was 100% wrong in their dealings with the world and it's problems. . If and when the Chinese start landing troops in Vancouver who will Canada call on to help. Mexico,the UK ,of course not it will be the war mongering USA.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I am absolutely puzzled here :confused:..... what is the big deal?

I think the opposite of OVM, me being the closed minded American I am, I think he has been questioning things and pointing out the bad to first understand the puzzling nature of America (and sometimes the stupidity of us Americans) and then trying to find ways to improve our country that he shares.

Maybe this is the free spirit and 'got beaten in the head about diversification' attitude I have but really and truly I can't help but think that this form of criticism if you can call it that does nothing but help.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Sure hindsight shows stupidity and wrong decisions but who among us and what Country hasn't been gulity of that. But why come to a place that has policies in place that piss you off. Sure the US is not perfect and probably never will be but it is still the best Country on the planet and if you cannot support it go home.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Sure hindsight shows stupidity and wrong decisions but who among us and what Country hasn't been gulity of that. But why come to a place that has policies in place that piss you off. Sure the US is not perfect and probably never will be but it is still the best Country on the planet and if you cannot support it go home.

Rich,
I agree with you there but maybe I am too used to the mindset that we came here to change things attitude that is prevalent with a number of middle eastern people and eastern europeans I am exposed to living in this area, that I tolerate a lot more then the average person, I just don't know.

Again in comparison, OVM has been OK by my standards with his comments.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Rich my quote from another thread.

"Also I am NOT trying to change your system. I am questioning IT as in getting more info as in learning. Isn't that what ya want How can I assimulate into the American society if I no nothing about it? Farm subsidys I was just talking about them. Not suggesting a thing. Just comparing apples and oranges. Maybe you'd prefer if I stayed a Pedro and raped your land and pillaged your villages like some 12 million other Pedros? I paid my way with almost $2,000 US dollars for this right to question the system of which I am about to become apart of...."

I am not whinning nor pissed....just inquisitive...As in what the U.S is and why is it like that?
And I am sorry but I can't help compare the two countries....I think every immigrant does until he/she gets a notion of whats going on.....

And no not a citizen yet...3 more years or 2 and a bit...Hopefully in that time when I go to the voting booth I might just know what and who I am voting for....
 
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