Minneapolis Police Have Done It Again

Pilgrim

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What is it with the Minneapolis police dept? Earlier this week they botched a no-knock warrant, entering an apartment with a key and killing a legally armed black victim who was sleeping on his couch. The victim had no criminal record and no relation to the homicide investigation that was the foundation for the warrant. It sure sounds like this swat team was a bunch of poorly trained, trigger-happy cowboys who did a poor job of clearing this apartment, knowing the occupant would likely be asleep. Granted he had a weapon legally in his possession, but it's likely he had justification for wanting to protect himself in a city with a rampant crime rate. Here's another case of a cop that will be put on trial under national publicity while BLM and Antifa do their riot/protest thing.

 

muttly

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What is it with the Minneapolis police dept? Earlier this week they botched a no-knock warrant, entering an apartment with a key and killing a legally armed black victim who was sleeping on his couch. The victim had no criminal record and no relation to the homicide investigation that was the foundation for the warrant. It sure sounds like this swat team was a bunch of poorly trained, trigger-happy cowboys who did a poor job of clearing this apartment, knowing the occupant would likely be asleep. Granted he had a weapon legally in his possession, but it's likely he had justification for wanting to protect himself in a city with a rampant crime rate. Here's another case of a cop that will be put on trial under national publicity while BLM and Antifa do their riot/protest thing.

So they shouldn’t do these type of raids? Because when they do, they should anticipate every type of scenario from happening, such as having a person be there that may be sleeping and have a weapon nearby for protection. Then they need to anticipate that the person might be woken from a sleep and be confused about what is going on and may think it’s a burglary. Because when officers raid a home there is the possibility that a person will be holding a gun and then what? The officer is faced with a split second decision whether to shoot before the person does. This all should be considered and anticipated already with no knock raids. The question is are the no knock raids necessary given the risks of wrong things happening?
 

ATeam

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So they shouldn’t do these type of raids? ?
You're speaking in generalities. Pilgrim cites a specific case with specific facts. In that case, the Minneapolis police themselves demonstrate the tragic and horrific downsides of their no-knock approach. By all accounts so far, they killed an innocent man who was asleep on a couch when they stormed in, thereby creating a high-intensity, high-stakes situation.

I'm wondering why they felt the need to raid the apartment like they did to target a man not named in the warrant. First, did they go to the right apartment? Second, it's an apartment with one or two entrances. It would be easy to stake the place out and simply wait for the person to emerge, would it not? Might it have been better to simply call the phone in the apartment, tell the person he is surrounded and ask him to come out?
 

muttly

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You're speaking in generalities. Pilgrim cites a specific case with specific facts. In that case, the Minneapolis police themselves demonstrate the tragic and horrific downsides of their no-knock approach. By all accounts so far, they killed an innocent man who was asleep on a couch when they stormed in, thereby creating a high-intensity, high-stakes situation.

I'm wondering why they felt the need to raid the apartment like they did to target a man not named in the warrant. First, did they go to the right apartment? Second, it's an apartment with one or two entrances. It would be easy to stake the place out and simply wait for the person to emerge, would it not? Might it have been better to simply call the phone in the apartment, tell the person he is surrounded and ask him to come out?
If they called first, it would defeat the purpose of a no knock raid, which is the element of surprise. This element is characteristic of no knock raids and especially early morning ones where the person may be sleeping. The person thinking his house is being burglarized and grabs his gun. Sometimes shooting it in the direction of the breach without even seeing who it is.
More details need to be known about this particular case.
It’s a close call if the officer was justified or not. The gun was pointed in the direction of the officer. So he has little time to respond .
And yes, the person if awakened from a sleep, naturally grabbed his weapon to defend his self from a potential burglar, it is understandable to do so.
Hence the pratfalls of no knock raids.DE936E36-8C23-4BE4-B0C6-C16BE91DF580.jpeg
 
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Pilgrim

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After reading several more articles about this raid, it appears the cops had the right apartment but the subjects on the warrant weren't there. Shouldn't they have known that beforehand? So they had the right place but the wrong guy happened to be there, sound asleep. The question is now whether or not they used excessive force when they could possibly have subdued him by other means. So far the St. Paul police dept is keeping a lot of details under wraps, but it seems that this was a poorly planned raid with very little research or reconnaissance done prior to its execution. Whether or not the shooting was justified is a hard call, but my guess is the city of St Paul is going to be paying out another multi-million dollar settlement.

"The Fourth Amendment governs how police officers should conduct searches, and the U.S. Supreme Court's interpretation sets the legal standard. The Supreme Court case Graham v. Connor set this standard. The amount of force used to seize a suspect must be "objectively reasonable." When a plaintiff files a civil suit alleging excessive force, the court examines the totality of the facts and circumstances faced by the officer to decide whether the force used to affect a seizure was excessive."
 
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