2021 MB Sprinter 2.0 gas or diesel

Mr. Loyalty.

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First generation Pentastar 3.6's were prone to head problems due to poor lubrication.
They fixed that in 2014 I think it was. Also many of the drivers that migrated to the Promaster came from driving the regular Ford and
Chevy cargo vans and were pounding on them the same way they used to beat on the old vans and found out fast that they couldn't treat them the same way. Once the drivers/owners figured that out, they stopped destroying the cv axles and other suspension components.
Their transmissions are holding up well for the most part.

I don't have overall cost comparsion charts between the long and talls but if you can tolerate the sacrifice of a proper bunk area, my gut feeling tells me that provided you keep up on the maintenance (love those cheap diy oil changes), and don't beat on them like we did with the old slop boxes, I believe the Promaster will end up providing the lowest overall cost of ownership.
So one has to "baby" a Promaster in hopes that it will hold up, in other words? I'll take the reliability and dependability of my Ford Econoline "slopbox" anyday knowing that it will take anything thrown at it...lol. and yes, those $40 diy synthetic oil changes are great!
 

roadeyes

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Future resale value? LOL!

It's a van! I wouldn't buy a used van (gas or diesel) that was more than a couple of years old which you almost never could find on the market even before the covid vehicle shortages we presently face are in effect. You might get lucky and find an owner or two that is getting rid of a good van because they can't find drivers but generally no expediter sells vans until they are beat into the ground anyways which is basically scrap resale value. You want to buy someone elses problem after 4 or 5 years of hard running? A truck,maybe? A van? Not likely, imo.

You can't count on future resale value because you never know what the market will be like when it comes time to sell
If the market is flooded with vans you ain't getting shyte for your Sprinter with 500k or more on it even if it is only 5 years old.
I would always factor in higher depreciation on a van than I would on a truck and then if you are lucky and you get more then it's a bonus.
Just depreciate high no matter what the make is and hope for the best after you're done beating it into the ground.
 

roadeyes

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So one has to "baby" a Promaster in hopes that it will hold up, in other words? I'll take the reliability and dependability of my Ford Econoline "slopbox" anyday knowing that it will take anything thrown at it...lol. and yes, those $40 diy synthetic oil changes are great!
I don't consider driving properly as "babying it" but I hate Fords and I sure don't want the maintenance expense of a Sprinter (although I would have considered one if you could have gotten the long and tall in a gas engine), so that leaves me torn between a Promaster or forget the long and talls and just get a Chevy SRW cube van. Personal preferences aside though, even if you did get a gas Ford long and tall it will still probably cost you less than a Sprinter will overall provided you can do a lot of your own maintenance which is both harder to do and more costly on a Sprinter.

Edit: the Problem with going with a 12 foot cube (of any make) is that you still don't really have anymore living space than you would with the Promaster unless you put a doghouse over the cab and the Promaster will still win handily in the mileage category over the cube so for overall cost of ownership (creature comforts aside), the Promaster still wins imo.
 
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Mr. Loyalty.

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I don't consider driving properly as "babying it" but I hate Fords and I sure don't want the maintenance expense of a Sprinter (although I would have considered one if you could have gotten the long and tall in a gas engine), so that leaves me torn between a Promaster or forget the long and talls and just get a Chevy SRW cube van. Personal preferences aside though, even if you did get a gas Ford long and tall it will still probably cost you less than a Sprinter will overall provided you can do a lot of your own maintenance which is both harder to do and more costly on a Sprinter.

Edit: the Problem with going with a 12 foot cube (of any make) is that you still don't really have anymore living space than you would with the Promaster unless you put a doghouse over the cab and the Promaster will still win handily in the mileage category over the cube so for overall cost of ownership (creature comforts aside), the Promaster still wins imo.
Screenshot_20210924-025528_Gallery.jpg
Well, everyone has their own preference on vehicles...but there is something about a van with a minivan engine and transmission built in Mexico by a German company that just doesn't sit too well with me..lol..and than there is this issue of the engine and transmission falling out of this Promaster that further confirms my feelings about a Promaster...sure, there are a few good things about a Promaster. But I will stick with my 12' srw Ford Econoline...12' x 85" x 86" is plenty of room..
 

roadeyes

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The driver most likely had been overloading the vehicle since new and the driveline finally gave out.
Surprised it lasted that long. These things don't just "fall out", it only happens either by hitting something or through long term abuse.
You're going to tell me that the driver didn't have warning ahead of time in the form of driveline vibration? because I'm pretty sure that if it fell out like that then the mounts had been gone for a while! As usual it comes down to driver abuse coupled with lack of maintenance/visual inspection!

In your situation going from a SRW cube to a promaster would be of no benefit other than better fuel mileage but as you already know, it really won't gain you any extra living space so it would be more of a sideways move than an upgrade as far as livability is concerned and if you are already happy with your Ford then you have no doubt looked at their long and talls and even though I said I hate Fords, I would still take their long and tall over a diesel Sprinter all day long, just due to the availability of service locations if needed.
 
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Mr. Loyalty.

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The driver most likely had been overloading the vehicle since new and the driveline finally gave out.
Surprised it lasted that long. These things don't just "fall out", it only happens either by hitting something or through long term abuse.
You're going to tell me that the driver didn't have warning ahead of time in the form of driveline vibration? because I'm pretty sure that if it fell out like that then the mounts had been gone for a while! As usual it comes down to driver abuse coupled with lack of maintenance/visual inspection!

In your situation going from a SRW cube to a promaster would be of no benefit other than better fuel mileage but as you already know, it really won't gain you any extra living space so it would be more of a sideways move than an upgrade as far as livability is concerned and if you are already happy with your Ford then you have no doubt looked at their long and talls and even though I said I hate Fords, I would still take their long and tall over a diesel Sprinter all day long, just due to the availability of service locations if needed.
I'm not telling you anything. It is easy to speculate on what could be the cause. Regardless, whatever the case may be, that engine and transmission should not of fallen out. Period.

As much of a diehard fan I am of Fords my whole life, the Transit is a major disappointment to me in many ways. Sure, the engine and drive train issues may finally be worked, especially the guibo issue, but I sm not liking the fact of no engine access from the inside cab via a removable engine doghouse, like the econoline has. And the difficulty of servicing the transmission? No dipstick? Absolutely ludicrous! At least the Econolines have a unrestricted access to the transmission fluid pan, even with a drain plug on the torque converter . And what buffoon thought it was a good idea to relocate the emergency brake setup to next to the drivers seat floor? If you order a Transit cutaway there is an option of having it by the drivers left kick panel, like it should always be. It's just not a very comfortable cab area, imo, nothing like the Sprinter. But I do like the idea of the rear wheel drive, and many other things as well. And the Transit is a nice looking van. Much more than the promaster.
 

roadeyes

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I haven't driven the Ford long and tall so I can't speak to cabin comfort however alot of new vehicles are going the no dipstick route from what I can tell. There's no tranny dipstick on my 2014 Grand Caravan either.....
 

Mr. Loyalty.

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I haven't driven the Ford long and tall so I can't speak to cabin comfort however alot of new vehicles are going the no dipstick route from what I can tell. There's no tranny dipstick on my 2014 Grand Caravan either.....
I heard years ago that a transmission dipstick and tube can be ordered for a Transit, that the hole is on the transmission, just a plug where it goes, and that plug is where they fill the transmission when servicing. That's what I heard, anyways.

Wanna see something comical? Open a Transit drivers side door and slide the seat all the way forward. Not even a anorexic midget can fit on that seat it is so close to the steering wheel. What was Ford thinking there??...lol..
 

LDB

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Is there a computer under that seat? If yes, then access to the computer, if no, then for ability to clean under there or mount your own whatever in that spot. I periodically put my seats fully forward for cleaning from the back. I like that feature.
 
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Mr. Loyalty.

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Is there a computer under that seat? If yes, then access to the computer, if no, then for ability to clean under there or mount your own whatever in that spot. I periodically put my seats fully forward for cleaning from the back. I like that feature.
I just reached under the seat from the open drivers door to clean it out....lol
 

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I'm not telling you anything. It is easy to speculate on what could be the cause. Regardless, whatever the case may be, that engine and transmission should not of fallen out. Period.

As much of a diehard fan I am of Fords my whole life, the Transit is a major disappointment to me in many ways. Sure, the engine and drive train issues may finally be worked, especially the guibo issue, but I sm not liking the fact of no engine access from the inside cab via a removable engine doghouse, like the econoline has. And the difficulty of servicing the transmission? No dipstick? Absolutely ludicrous! At least the Econolines have a unrestricted access to the transmission fluid pan, even with a drain plug on the torque converter . And what buffoon thought it was a good idea to relocate the emergency brake setup to next to the drivers seat floor? If you order a Transit cutaway there is an option of having it by the drivers left kick panel, like it should always be. It's just not a very comfortable cab area, imo, nothing like the Sprinter. But I do like the idea of the rear wheel drive, and many other things as well. And the Transit is a nice looking van. Much more than the promaster.
ProMasters used to have a tranny dipstick, but no more. It truly is a dumb move by any manufacturer.
 

Mr. Loyalty.

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ProMasters used to have a tranny dipstick, but no more. It truly is a dumb move by any manufacturer.
One more reason why I stick with my tried, tested, ultra dependable Ford Econoline.

A freind of mine recently developed a transmission fluid leak. No dipstick. No easy accessible way to add fluid, like Ford Econoline. So what is a non- dipstick sealed transmission van owner to do in a situation like this?...call a tow truck is my guess..smh..
 

Charity's Van

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there is a tube but no stick on promasters. are you saying the vans made after 18 have no tube? i have no idea on the newestversion with the 9 spd. on my 18 any stick could work if long enough, just stick it in till it bottoms out. when trans is at operating temp; then 2" on stick is fine. just like all automatics since 1958
 

coalminer

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If it uses the zf 9 speed there is no dipstick or tube, on the back of the transmission there is a 6mm hex plug that you remove and stick a special tool in to measure the fluid level and then use a chart along with the transmission temperature to make sure the level is correct. Or at least that is how it is on my Pacifica.

Hate the 9 speed by the way…..


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Mr. Loyalty.

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there is a tube but no stick on promasters. are you saying the vans made after 18 have no tube? i have no idea on the newestversion with the 9 spd. on my 18 any stick could work if long enough, just stick it in till it bottoms out. when trans is at operating temp; then 2" on stick is fine. just like all automatics since 1958
Wow....if you say so...lol......
 

VocalVirgo

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there is a tube but no stick on promasters. are you saying the vans made after 18 have no tube? i have no idea on the newestversion with the 9 spd. on my 18 any stick could work if long enough, just stick it in till it bottoms out. when trans is at operating temp; then 2" on stick is fine. just like all automatics since 1958
After 18 the tube all but disappeared, and now it’s a short stumpy thing way down at the bottom of the engine bay. It’s good enough to add fluid, but there’s no reliable way to check the level.
 

VocalVirgo

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If it uses the zf 9 speed there is no dipstick or tube, on the back of the transmission there is a 6mm hex plug that you remove and stick a special tool in to measure the fluid level and then use a chart along with the transmission temperature to make sure the level is correct. Or at least that is how it is on my Pacifica.

Hate the 9 speed by the way…..


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The 9-Speed wont be here until March 2022 in the ProMaster, along with the slightly updated engine.
 

VocalVirgo

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I wonder if they will fix the engine and transmission falling out issue? And the constant headlights burning out?
That’s not actually an issue, lol. But I have had 3 vans: 2017, 2018, and 2021, and none of them had the bulbs go out. However, after I sold the 2018 (21,000 miles) the new owner had to have major top end work done to the engine at 31,000 miles. It’s stuff like that, that keeps ProMaster owners on edge, lol. Hopefully the changes to the engines for 2022 will stop all the top-end nonsense #PentastarTick. Thats why I’m over-protecting the engine from the start. In this day and age any new car built should last 200,000 miles without a hitch. Having engine or transmission failures in something with, let’s say, 100,000 miles on it is completely unacceptable. Mine needs to last at least 200,000. And boy, I sure was looking at that Ford 7.3 V8… and the Chevy 6.6 V8 too for an RV… but this is what I got… We’ll see.
 
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