The Trump Card...

muttly

Veteran Expediter
This is less of a left/right problem than it is an "I want my lawn care, farm crops, construction labor, factory labor and Mexican restaurants" problem.
More like employers wanting cheap labor. Clamp down intensely on the influx of illegal aliens and even for awhile, legal immigration. Have U.S. citizens do those jobs in a tighter labor market and you’ll see wages rise for them. It will especially help minorities the most too, since they bear the brunt more from an influx of cheap labor.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
More like employers wanting cheap labor. Clamp down intensely on the influx of illegal aliens and even for awhile, legal immigration. Have U.S. citizens do those jobs in a tighter labor market and you’ll see wages rise for them. It will especially help minorities the most too, since they bear the brunt more from an influx of cheap labor.
There is always a simple solution, isn't there? Just do this, than that. Just do that, then this, and all will be well. And oh, yes, I almost forgot. If something's wrong, it's the Democrats' fault.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
There is always a simple solution, isn't there? Just do this, than that. Just do that, then this, and all will be well. And oh, yes, I almost forgot. If something's wrong, it's the Democrats' fault.
“Chamber of Commerce” Republicans and “Desperate for new voters” Dems are both at fault. And are making it more complicated than it has to be.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There's not going to be a simple solution for this enormous influx of unskilled laborers, most of whom are illiterate in their own language, to say nothing of English. When do we reach the saturation point of landscapers, roofers and hotel maids? Then consider how many entry level jobs these illegals are taking away from American workers. America has to stop being the world's homeless shelter. Enough already - the shelter is full. Deploy the troops, build the wall and close the border.

Maybe by 2024 there will be somebody from the GOP who'll be willing to have a serious conversation with the leaders of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce - the largest lobbying group in the country, and a staunch supporter of cheap, illegal labor. Maybe it will be the same guy that grabbed Mickey Mouse by the ears and told him to leave our kids alone.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Deploy the troops, build the wall and close the border.
On that we have some common ground. I do not object to foreign workers coming to America to work. In Florida this is a common sight. Just last week, a crew of non-English-speaking people (I presume Mexicans) re-roofed our neighbor's house and they did a pretty good job. They were well equipped and looked professional in all respects. Did they take jobs away from American workers? Probably not as workers are hard to find these days. Did they save money for the homeowner? Probably so because they work cheaper than their roofing competitors.

Should the homeowner be penalized for hiring illegal labor? That's one of the hot questions of the day.

But when it comes to the border itself, I'm with you. If a border is to actually be a border, it must mean something. For decades, millions of people have illegally flowed across the U.S. Mexico border. This can be stopped and should be stopped.

Trump's wall was a stupid, and ineffective idea (see post above about the really nice Trump wall that is now associated with an INCREASE in illegal crossings). It was a waste of money. Great idea for stoking the simple-minded anger of those who feel cheated by Mexican laborers, but a really bad idea for producing the desired result.

Yes, deploy the troops, and control the border. Let's develop a collective American will to have a border that actually means something, which will help bring order to our labor markets. It will help rectify the insanity now overwhelming our country's deportation courts and processes too.

Yes, lots of people in the world genuinely need the kind of asylum America offers, but that need will always exceed our ability to provide it. That's no different then your situation or mine. There are lots of people we can help right in our own neighborhoods. But we don't help them all because doing that would leave us broke and exhausted. Seal the border. Allow asylum but cap it and rationally administer it.

You are right. This is a complex problem with a host of variables. But one thing can be constant. Seal the border! Then let the other variables sort themselves out or be sorted out around the fact that our border is secure (or as reasonably secure as a national border can be).
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
On that we have some common ground. I do not object to foreign workers coming to America to work. In Florida this is a common sight. Just last week, a crew of non-English-speaking people (I presume Mexicans) re-roofed our neighbor's house and they did a pretty good job. They were well equipped and looked professional in all respects. Did they take jobs away from American workers? Probably not as workers are hard to find these days. Did they save money for the homeowner? Probably so because they work cheaper than their roofing competitors.

Should the homeowner be penalized for hiring illegal labor? That's one of the hot questions of the day.

But when it comes to the border itself, I'm with you. If a border is to actually be a border, it must mean something. For decades, millions of people have illegally flowed across the U.S. Mexico border. This can be stopped and should be stopped.

Trump's wall was a stupid, and ineffective idea (see post above about the really nice Trump wall that is now associated with an INCREASE in illegal crossings). It was a waste of money. Great idea for stoking the simple-minded anger of those who feel cheated by Mexican laborers, but a really bad idea for producing the desired result.

Yes, deploy the troops, and control the border. Let's develop a collective American will to have a border that actually means something, which will help bring order to our labor markets. It will help rectify the insanity now overwhelming our country's deportation courts and processes too.

Yes, lots of people in the world genuinely need the kind of asylum America offers, but that need will always exceed our ability to provide it. That's no different then your situation or mine. There are lots of people we can help right in our own neighborhoods. But we don't help them all because doing that would leave us broke and exhausted. Seal the border. Allow asylum but cap it and rationally administer it.

You are right. This is a complex problem with a host of variables. But one thing can be constant. Seal the border! Then let the other variables sort themselves out or be sorted out around the fact that our border is secure (or as reasonably secure as a national border can be).
Thanks Phil for your well written, thoughtful post. I really don't think there is anybody that doesn't acknowledge the fact that we have a problem on the southern border ( even Democrats, regardless what some on this forum believe ).

The question is, how to solve it .
Walls don't work.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Mostly business owners that hire cheap labor that illegal aliens provide. There are Dems that do this too. It drives down wages by flooding the labor market. It affects minorities most of all.
I think your use of the label "Chamber of Commerce Republicans" is inaccurate and unfair. I am a Chamber board member in our city. While there are businesses in our city that hire illegal aliens, I do not know of a single Chamber member who does. Not one.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Mostly business owners that hire cheap labor that illegal aliens provide. There are Dems that do this too. It drives down wages by flooding the labor market. It affects minorities most of all.
I think you may find it helpful to rethink your assumption that wages are driven down by illegal immigrants who are flooding the labor markets. Right now, in Florida at least, labor is scarce, but illegal immigration is said to be a big problem. Your characterization of the problem is over-simplistic and factually inaccurate.

Wages are not being driven down by a flood of illegal immigrants. While illegal immigration continues, wages are rising fast.

This is partly because of the minimum wage increase that A STRONG MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE (including a ton of Trump voters in this red state) voted into law in the form of a state constitutional amendment. It's partly due to the current shortage of workers that now exists. And it's partly due to inflation.

Things cost more so the scarce number of workers workers are demanding more, and they're getting it. And they are also getting it because the law requires employers to raise pay if minimum wage is being paid.

The minimum wage hike is having a knock-on effect on other wages too. Employers (including our city which employs hundreds of workers) who used to pay $15 per hour are raising pay to $17 or $18 because minimum wage will be $15 and they don't want to lose employees who will leave because they don't want to work for "minimum wage." Their self-worth and self-esteem will prompt them to leave a job where they made more than minimum wage before but make minimum wage now. Why work for the city for $15 when Target and Walmart pays more and offers the same or better benefits?

I don't know the illegal immigration stats for Florida, but I do not think the inflow of illegal workers has slowed in recent times. Note that the number of arrests at the border and the number of successful crossings are not the same number. Just because more people have been arrested at the border, it does not follow that fewer people are illegally getting in.

The assumed correlation you make between the number of illegal workers present and the direction of wages is simply wrong. The truth is, illegal immigration is persistent if not increasing. AND wages are increasing.

And it's really hard to find workers now. The labor markets are anything but flooded. Before COVID-19, I could run a help-wanted ad for a gym manager and receive dozens of applications. I could fill the position quickly. The last time I ran the same ad, I had just three qualified applicants over two months, and we lost two of those to other jobs before our interview process was complete. The position was eventually filled but the change in the labor market is dramatic.

And, according to some of my Chamber of Commerce friends and the city managers I know, I'm one of the luck ones in that I was able to fill our vacant seat. Numerous employers have vacancies they cannot fill.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter

IMG_20220503_182646.jpg
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
I see the Trump backed candidate won the Primary for Senator in Ohio.(Come from behind victory too.)
The demise of Trump’s influence has been greatly exaggerated. Lol.
 
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