you guys are whooses!

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Nothing wrong with drug testing...some insurance co's want it, alot of employers want it...so everyone can be safe at work and enjoy thier enviroment. Only drug users fear this law.

Right? What loss.....To the ordinary citizen that goes about thier daily habits of life, no loss.
I think it the "preception" of loss...I might be wrong but I don't recall "search warrants" in the Constitution...Unreasonable search and seizure I seem to recall.
It was a few years ago even before 9/11 that in Canada the cops don't need a warrant for suspected drug trafficking. They did however have to bring along an RCMP. As with your Patroit Act I think they need an FBI to invoke that privledge.
Seems organized crime has better intel then the President..for they always have thier lobby groups beating on the "rights" drum even before the laws are changed!!!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
“There are those that tell us we are losing our rights. When I look back on my 52(OMG!!!!) years, I feel as free now as I ever did. Could someone tell me, specifically and without the use of rhetoric, what rights I have lost that make me less free? It's important to remember that we can't be truly, completely free in the literal definition of the word, and still be a civilized society.â€

For what its worth, there is no really losing of rights per se, there is a restriction of rights and we have now come full circle of the witch hunts of the McCarthy era with political correctness. The patriot act aside (which is not as bad as what other presidents have come up with), the real issue is;

1 – how people perceive freedoms and rights

2 – what we have to deal with in exercising our rights

First what I mean is that many people don’t understand what rights we have and they look at today’s horrible world and think for example “well I guess to be safer, there should be restrictions or maybe elimination of the second amendment, bad people only have guns†which leads to the what you can understand is a bad, very bad thing. We have twisted around the idea that it is because of our rights, we have these problems today. We lack the education of people to understand that there is an interconnection between all the rights and our freedoms. In this case, I would fault public schools and parents for this.

The second thing is true restrictions of rights that happen through coercion, castigation and even oppressive violence when we exercise our freedoms which easily explained by saying two words – political correctness.

One illustration comes to mind Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), and their efforts to force people to shut up about their opposition (in one case CAIR is supporting suing the people who reported the Muslims that were kicked off the airlines – this is intimidation and should be looked at by the justice department) and if we say something about the terrorist being Muslim (you see this less in the news everyday) or try to make things equal like no government sponsored religion in schools (which we now have an exclusive Muslim school in NYC) we hear this complaining from groups like CAIR about how racist we are.

In the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and even in the 80’s we never had to worry about this stuff, those times we tolerated a lot more criticism of our selves and our ethnic groups and had an more open expression of our feelings without fear of having group like CAIR or the NAACP sue us or being fired because some self appointed civil right leader is complaining.

Now if a kid (preschool) hugs a teacher, they are now sexual predators or if you use the ‘n’ word (God I can’t stand writing that) and you are not the right color, sorry I mean even the right tone of color, you are a racist – get that scarlet letter R out and pin it to your shirt. The symbolism of things matters more than the rights, look at the editing or removing of books because of some negative racial tones or deeming rhetoric – this is a standard set not by society but by an individual who may be offended (over in England they are pulling books off the shelf that were written 60 years ago because someone complained about the word Monkey). We also see this in the rhetoric of the invaders and people who support them, you are racist because you don’t want them to come here through an open border or you are racist because you support the present immigration laws. In the 50’s the question was “are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?†has changed to “are you now or have you ever thought of nasty things about (fill in the blank) people?†and judged accordingly.

I must add something here, it is puzzling to me to hear the ACLU go after a school, city or what ever for the ten commandments, praying at a commencement or some student saying that he believes in God or Jesus and the Christians tolerate this but here we have had foot baths installed in schools, airports and buildings, pray time in schools and government offices and now a Muslim only school, I want to know where are the Christians, their churches and the highly paid preachers on this?

Why are they not organizing and fighting this apparent assault on the religious freedoms?

Maybe this should be a wakeup call before it is too late.

There is a lot more I can write but I hope you get the point.
 

simon says

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Greg- you are not doing your homework.

1) read the Patriot Act carefully
2) follow the news: every week there is a denied inquiry to Congress, or accounting bureau, etc, etc. on
illegal wiretapping, spying, end run around constitutional norms,
abuse of executive privilege, complete pardon of crooks (fall guys), illegal war, need I really go on? Supreme Court gangsters...

Ontariovanman had it right the first time, except that it is not our fault. While his third party is more like the Liberals, at least their country's workers had enough sense to build a third party! We have a two-party system of look-alikes. What one carries out, the other worries about, whimpers a little, then does nothing as they are fed from the same trough! If the unions had not sold out to become an adjunct of the State Dept. in the 50's, we might have had a third party.

Any American who thinks our rights & Constitution are not being trampled on, just woke up from a 20 yr. nappy! You &the rest of the Bush apologists (the what, 20% ers) will pardon the gangster until hell freezes over!
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
We have the original 2 parties the Liberal and the Conservative..and the way back the socialist party(communist party) with Tommy Douglas as leader it mutated into the now called New Democratic Party which makes 3. Now comes the Bloc Quebecois. They want to secede from Canada but get this want to keep the healthcare and pension rights!! The BQ had it's roots from the FLQ..thats the terrorist group from the 60's that kidnapped and executed a Canadian Member of Parliament! Thats when Mr. Trudeau called out the troops and declared marshall law in Quebec.
When asked by the press..."You wouldn't call out the troops on your own people? His response...."Watch me!!!"
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Simon,
I understand where you are coming from and I have read the patriotic act. I think that there are some things that are needed in it and others that we can do without – the congress (meaning present) don’t seem to be too concern with the issues that has been brought up even though it is was campaign promise to deal with the act as a whole right after the election.

My point is, starting in the teens with Wilson chasing after ‘dissidents’ breaking all kinds of laws to the 30’s with FDR using the FBI to spy on people who disagreed with him and some members of the press, oh and including a few senators to the 40’s and the use of the OSS and FBI under Truman to Eisenhower (and congress) using the FBI to spy on people and the press who had anything to do with communism and organized crime to Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Carter and so on – they did a lot worst than the patriot act because with the act we at least have some recourse and it is going through the courts now but then there was nothing anyone could do.

I have yet heard of or seen anywhere where masses of people have been rounded up and taken away for supporting terrorism. God knows how many people actually are terrorist in this country and to tie the hands of the people who protect us with everything they do, we pretty much deserve the bloodletting that could happen.

I can not be clearer than this and I am not saying this applies to you; many people bring up the points you brought up only out of hatred of Bush. They are true followers of people who lead them to ruin and are far from enlighten on any specific issue. They fail to understand what the real threat is to their way of life and will ignore the real terror to step up the hatred of one man. It is rather sad that we as a country fail to rid ourselves of hatred and have people with the blinders on all the time because it will be one of the real downfalls of the country, not laws or inept congress or anything like that.

The attacks on our freedoms are not coming from people like Bush, they are coming from people who are passionate about their hatred of Bush and anyone who supports him. The first thing that I can point to is the lack of real engagement between a modern liberal and anyone who disagrees with them, you can not have a conversation with a modern liberal because they spin it to make you out as one who hates everyone and ignorant to the facts. I know this for a fact, having it happen a lot to me. A great example is Michael Moore and his latest rounds of beating up the press over their criticism of his latest cr*pumemtory SICKO. In many of the interviews, as soon as he was slammed for his inaccuracies and twisting of fact (like the doctor wait times in the US is longer in than in the UK which is true but he fails to tell the rest of the story that the patient in the UK may not get treatment immediately like the patient in the US) he tries to deflect the conversation to the war, how Bush is ruining the country and a bunch of other hate filled comments.

Look around, see the changes that are being brought while most are protesting a war or complaining about attorneys being fired or pardoning of Libby, how d*mn trivial are those things to begin with and who really cares? I think if you want good examples of lose of freedoms, go to Hamtramck Michigan and sit on Joseph Compo for a few hours when they have call for pray, the community fought this and lost. Go to Dearborn to Fordson high school and look what is going on, pray in school. Go to NYC and see the all Muslim school, what happened to the all Jewish school for disable kids? Didn’t NYC fight the school district on that in Federal court and they closed the school – even after the community told NYC and the school district that they would pay for it? Not to beat up on the Muslims, they are doing what we all should be changing things for the betterment of their world but they are counting on your focus on the trivial to change things to fit them. I always thought there was a separation of church and state but I was wrong.

Follow the news for what, most of what is printed (or reported) is spun to make it look worst than it really is.

I am trying really hard to figure out the circumventing of our constitution with ‘illegal’ wiretapping, domestic spying, abuse of executive privilege (which there is no standard for in any code or the constitution on what he can or can not do), complete pardon of crooks (don’t forget Clinton pardon terrorist - which is worst a white house staffer getting condemnation or pardoning a whole group of people who kill innocent people for a cause?)

Illegal war?

Come on, that is getting so worn out. Please prove that it is an illegal war and where our congress did not vote for it? Please don’t use the Anan speech, he was covering his a** with the oil for food crimes and his son – the UN approved the action and they later lied about it.

OVM,
I think it would be rather funny to see Quebec succeed, join the US and at the same time see a passage of a constitution amendment for English only.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Thats the weirdest apart Quebec doesn't have the economic base to sustain itself and just for the reason you mentioned since they left cause of language and culture..the U.S. would not be a good fit..The only country left is France...we do have that French colony in the Gulf of St. Lawerence that still is under the flag of France.
So in fact theres actually 4 FOUR countries in North America.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I wonder does this apply to English only people?

Also you may agree with my OVM when I say that I really feel there are more than four countries in North America, technically the native population with sovereignty may also count.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
As far as I know greg...I maybe wrong but no tribe in Canada has true self rule or soveriegnty...They have been pushing for it,they want it. They have their own police force and band councils. They are still subject to federal laws in the felony range. Some reserves have court systems for misdeemer crimes.
Remember that issue where those two teens were dropped onto a deserted island in BC and had to fend for themselves the Indian way...all the white yuppies and do gooders thought it was too tough!!! Now thats a real survivor series!!!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
You may be right about that in Canada but here there is a bit of a difference because the UN actually reconginizes some tribes here.

also you said; "Remember that issue where those two teens were dropped onto a deserted island in BC and had to fend for themselves the Indian way...all the white yuppies and do gooders thought it was too tough!!! Now thats a real survivor series!!!"

I remember that and what they did. Wasn't there a fight to try the case in the regular courts but the courts decided to allow 'native' justice. I also heard that the term roughing it was loosely used because they actually got support from the tribe with food and shelter and that was criticized by some on the CBC. I think they should have spent time in jail like the rest of us.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
They prolly wouldn't have gone to jail up here anyhow even if second offense courts are too lenient on teens.
 

simon says

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Yea, they may be butt heads, but the they is the French-Canadian nationalists that Ontariovanman talked about. The average F-C is just as nice as anyone. Some of the truckers get an attitude due to all the flack they get from the Ontario drivers! Most I have talked to are polite and talk readily in English, or at least try. My limited French is so old, I can barely say hello, or count to 10. In Montreal, everyone I met at the Fly-hook or on vacation, broke fluently into English as soon as I opened my mouth. And everyone treated us as a mixed couple with absolute politeness...

However, even in France they have "stop" on the stop signs! So, yes, it is ridiculous, but it's the party's fault. I do remember the 1970 measures, and the tanks where in the streets. Anyone who thinks that the Bush-Cheney caball would not do the same with a national trucker's strike, is a dreamer! They already have well documented plans to call off elections in case of "National emergency"- we could be in for a Nov. surprise next year. Time will tell...
 

Critter Truckin

Expert Expediter
>but when they beat all the unions were are we going to be
>working for a company living in a company house buying in a
>company store
>and payday youll owe the company more than you worked
>
>as far as drugs they are wrong
>but someone telling me to fill up a cup while watching me or
>sticking a needle in my arm or cutting a chunck of hair out
>of my head without a court order is taking away my rights
>
>i'm not a dem or rep or ind
>so don't need to know about who's doing what and how like i
>said useing the church is wrong we fought for the right of
>seperation of church and state but i'm not a athous or
>whatever you call them
>
>just the same useing cb;s radar dectors or this openscale to
>be able to run against the law is just as wrong

You ready for this?

1. Unions were initially used for wage and working conditions, or the act of keeping them fair. The unions have since told people that they HAVE to join out of fear of losing jobs, wages, benefits, etc. They are one of the main reasons that cars, gas, household products, and the like are up and still on the rise. Not to mention, those in unions, OWE THE UNIONS DUES!!!

2. When one signs on with a company to drive a truck, or many other jobs for that matter, one signs an acknowledgment. The letter usually reads that the employeee understands that the company, in accordance with DOT and other regulations, does engage in random and occurant drug testing. So your argument about drug testing being a violation of rights, just got boiled because you signed the agreement to drive with that in it.

3. Since the people that are running for president, they don't represent the government or office that they are running for. And a little aside to that, please point out to me where it says in the Constitution that there is a "separation of church and state.'

4. Ya lost me. But don't run from the cops.

PS to our Canuckian friend. What's a whooses?
 

Critter Truckin

Expert Expediter
They are random for a reason. You get stupid, you get popped. It's a karma thing or something. When you get comfortable with the stuff that you shouldn't do, that's when you get it. I've never had a random done on me, but I know that if I did, it would come out right... no studying required!
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
well a couple of weeks ago close to my house there was a woman and her four kids that got killed by a driver high on crack. if he would've been get tested he wouldn't have been on the road.
 

marvinkwagner

Not a Member
YOOO Ontario wo man hmmm You said the following:::::
(You have a corrupt government, from the top to the bottom...your American values are washed up, you whine and cry and do nothing!! You deserve the government you got!! Over 250 years ago you didn't like it and what happened? your forefathers had the stones to stand up and do something...if you dare suggest it in here..I read we need a measured response!! What crap. Theres only one thing these guys need and thats a coordinated effort to be heard. A protest of all protests!!! Your justice system your constitution is being dismantled piece by piece! And whine whine whine...whoooses

oh yeah you can always write to your representive....whooses!!!
They need an ole fashion slap in the face...

Express-1.. Big enough to matter, Small enough to care.
B unit Sprinter #1585
6 years plus)



My answer to you is :::::::::::::

You complain to much about things you know nothing about why dont you crawl back under the rock you came from.

Better yet lauch your self into space and go sit on some distant astroide and tell a buch of space rocks your complaints, but dont sit there and put this country down or the Govt. ITs not perfect but neither are you.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Mr. Wagner? Don't you agree your government needs awake up call from the people??? It was you talking about all the pork barreling in the other thread.

Have a good day sir.....
:)
 

Critter Truckin

Expert Expediter
Wait a minute. As much as I don't dig people from other countries ripping on how ours does business. OVM has a point here.

We the People elect these morons to do our dirty work. We give them the broadest powers available to "govern" the way we think they will. But when they go and do something horrific, we say, "oh well, maybe next time." Like it's a baseball game played by children. Marvin, I don't know where you got your ideas on this issue, but I think you've just proved everyone's point that's rated you. Your beef with OVM doesn't make sense. And, it's just plain childish.

Plain and simple. Cheers.
 
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