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Hazmat question?!

Discussion in 'General Expediter Forum' started by AmeroTruckin, May 17, 2011.

  1. AmeroTruckin

    AmeroTruckin New Recruit

    If a hazmat load is under 1001lbs and does not require a placard. Does a driver still need to be hazmat certified in order to make the pick up??
    I have heard different explanations but have had shippers who did not load me b/c i did not have a hazmat licensce even though the dispatcher told me i could pick up.....does anyone have a legit answer? Maybe a link they could send me so i can see myself?? Let me know, ty.....
  2. Desperado

    Desperado New Recruit

    yes all hazmat loads require hazmat endorsement and some hazmat even 1 oz require placemats
  3. AmeroTruckin

    AmeroTruckin New Recruit

    TY for the response I appreciate it.
  4. moose

    moose New Recruit

    If it's required to be placard, then you'll need the HM endorsements (Doh'a).
    if it's not require to be placard, then you will be good to go, for the simple rezone that by law it is not HM.
    however, shippers CAN have their own rules, for all kind of rezones ,and it will help if they communicate those rules with dispatchers .
    just like carriers hoe require a CDL for Van drivers .
    BTW, if this happens more often then not, maybe it's time to invest in the endorsement .
  5. purgoose10

    purgoose10 Active Expediter

    Depends on the commodity and Reportable quantity.

    If your under reportable (500lbs) I don't think your required by law but the carrier and they're insurance carrier might require it.

    Moose has a point, why not have one.
  6. Brisco

    Brisco Active Expediter

  7. xiggi

    xiggi Expert Expediter

    One thing you also need to be concerned about is how often is a load said to be 1000 lbs but when you get there it is 1200 lbs.
  8. bigshow345

    bigshow345 New Recruit

    It depends on your auto insurance liability policy what your permit book says ohh and most important, your hazmat on your cdl. When I use to be a company driver for werner enterprise (joke of a company) I was sent to Ny ny to pick up a container that had 10 pounds of yellow radio active class 7. It was uranium powder used to make fuel rods. Now on my cdl I do not have hazmat in any way shape or form nor will I ever get hazmat because the risk outweighs the profits.

    Anyways its illegal as hell to transport this from Ny ny to buffalo ny because of having to drive this on the ny state toll road. Werner wanted me to do this I refused and reported werner to the Ny state dot and port authority. Werner got fined and thats why I fly my own flag.

    Anyways in reguards to hazmat if its over 1k you need a hazmat if its something like gasoline, hair spray, a bunch of car batteries, rocket fuel, compressed gasses, etc. If its uranium powder used to make fuel rods and its under 1k you need hazmat. What you should do is whip out your hazmat book and table to see if it needs to be placarded
  9. Turtle

    Turtle Administrator Staff Member

    Moose nailed it. If a HAZMAT load is under 1001lbs and does not require a placard, then it's not HAZMAT. If it's not HAZMAT, you don't need a HAZMAT endorsement to pick it up. The litmus test for HAZMAT is whether or not it requires a placard. If it does, then it's HAZMAT, if it doesn't, then it's not HAZMAT.

    One example would be certain kinds of paint which if the load weighs more than 1000 pounds is must be placarded as HAZMAT, and you must have a HAZMAT endorsement on your CDL to haul it. But if it is 1000 pounds or less then it doesn't need to be placarded because it isn't HAZMAT, and you don't need a HAZMAT endorsement or even a CDL to haul it.

    Some shippers require a HAZMAT endorsement for all of their shipments regardless of whether or not their shipment is HAZMAT. I once picked up a 5-gallon bucket of paint and the shipper wouldn't have loaded me if I didn't have the endorsement, even though having the endorsement wasn't required by law.
  10. TeamCaffee

    TeamCaffee Administrator Staff Member

    Straight Truck
    I just went through getting my drivers license and one of the questions that was asked was this question and this was the correct answer:
    27. You do not have a hazardous materials endorsement on your commercial driver license. When can you legally haul hazardous materials?

    A Never
    B Only when the shipment does not cross state lines
    C Only when the load is placarded
    D All of the above

    I also think Moose has it right, but I would like to see the regulation in the FMCSA book.
  11. layoutshooter

    layoutshooter New Recruit

    It is just a good idea to have that endorsement. You can never tell when you might have some HAZMAT "slipped" onto your truck without you knowing it.

    It happened to us. We were loading at the CDC heading down for Hurricane Gustov. We were told NO HAZMAT on this load. While loading we noticed HAZMAT stickers on some of the freight. It made them mad but we required them produce new paper work reflecting the O2 canisters in the kits. They complained that no other drivers made them do that. Oh well, do it right or don't do it.
  12. Turtle

    Turtle Administrator Staff Member

    I honestly don't know if it's in the book or not, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I would imagine that it's not in there. The reason is, the FMSCA regulations themselves already define HAZMAT, and the book deals with HAZMAT as already defined in the regulations.

    The test question is pretty straightforward, as it asks about "hazardous materials". If it's "hazardous materials" then it's HAZMAT (and thus placardable according to the FMCSA definition), and you need the endorsement.

    And if it's not "hazardous materials" then it's not, and you don't.

    Even though I use the term all the time to delineate material which would otherwise be placardable in certain amounts but not placardable in other amounts, there's really no such thing as non-placardable HAZMAT. It's either HAZMAT or its not, and if it is, then it's placardable and you need the endorsement.

    Of course, just because some or all of the freight has HAZMAT stickers on the boxes, that doesn't mean the load itself is HAZMAT. It might be in certain quantities (more than 1000 pounds, for example), but not in the quantities you are being loaded with. A 5-gallon bucket of HAZMAT paint is gonna have a HAZMAT sticker on it, but it ain't HAZMAT unless there is more than 1000 pounds of it being loaded onto the truck. A single 5-gallon bucket of HAZMAT paint loaded amongst non-HAZMAT freight, even if the total weight of everything is well over 1000 pounds, doesn't make the load a HAZMAT load.

    I once picked up two skids, one was 800 pounds of wet batteries, and the other was 1200 pounds of tools and other hardware. Total weight was 2000 pounds, but it wasn't a HAZMAT load because the "hazmat" portion of the load wasn't a HAZMAT quantity.

    But I agree that it's just a good idea to have the endorsement, even if you never haul HAZMAT. It lets you know what you're looking at, the freight, the bills, and the placards on that wild and crazy driving truck in the lane next to you. There are a lot of shipping clerks that don't really understand it, and they'll try to load you with placardable HAZMAT when the bill isn't marked as such, and they'll incorrectly mark something as HAZMAT when it isn't. If you have the endorsement you'll know and be able to spot those kinds of errors. For example, if you are picking up freight that is marked as HAZMAT on the paperwork, but it's not HAZMAT freight, it's illegal to just go ahead and haul it anyway without first having the paperwork corrected, just the same as it's illegal to run with HAZMAT placards if you aren't actually loaded with HAZMAT.
  13. layoutshooter

    layoutshooter New Recruit

    I was pressurized O2 bottles. It was required to be on the BOL but not placarded.
  14. Turtle

    Turtle Administrator Staff Member

    Well, I can't comment on that freight specifically, but if it's not required to be placarded, then it's not required to be marked as HAZMAT on the BOL. In fact, if it's not HAZMAT (no placards required) and the HM column is marked on the BOL, then the BOL is incorrect and should be changed.

    Individual packaging, like those bottles, are required to be marked with HAZMAT stickers, even if they aren't HAZMAT in certain quantities. And even though the individual packaging may be marked, unless the quantity makes it HAZMAT, it should not be marked as HM on the BOL. It should be properly identified insofar as everything else is concerned (packing group, UIN, etc) but just not marked under HM.
  15. layoutshooter

    layoutshooter New Recruit

    Yep, UN numbers etc. The was an 800 number to go with them as well. We have SEVERAL of those on our truck. There was a bit of a battle over what needed to be where, after a bit of searching books, and some help from someone at FDCC we got it straightened out. I forget what went where, but we had our BOL and one from the government as normal.

    The point was mainly to point out the value of having the HAZMAT to avoid problems if they to crop up.
  16. layoutshooter

    layoutshooter New Recruit

    Yep, UN numbers etc. The was an 800 number to go with them as well. We have SEVERAL of those on our truck. There was a bit of a battle over what needed to be where, after a bit of searching books, and some help from someone at FDCC we got it straightened out. I forget what went where, but we had our BOL and one from the government as normal.

    The point was mainly to point out the value of having the HAZMAT to avoid problems if they to crop up.
  17. gunnrunnerX

    gunnrunnerX New Recruit

    No matter how much hazmat it is...placarded or HAVE to have an endorsement on your CDL, your bill of lading HAS TO BE marked as hazmat. that $10,000+ fine WILL change your mind. All the 1001# rule is for is placarding. If you don't placard that corrosive load, it doesn't automatically become non-corrosive. The freight is still the same.
  18. Turtle

    Turtle Administrator Staff Member

    Well, that's true, sort of. No matter how much HAZMAT it is, you do need the endorsement on your CDL, since you need an endorsement to haul HAZMAT. The "placarded or not" part is somewhat confusing, because if it is HAZMAT, as defined by the FMCSA, then it must be placarded - period. So there is no "or not" involved. If it's HAZMAT, it MUST be placarded. If it's not HAZMAT, it MUST NOT be placarded.

    There are several types of material which only becomes hazardous when it reaches a certain quantity. Unless and until it reaches that quantity threshold, it is not hazardous and is thus not HAZMAT. That's why cargo van drivers who have no CDL can haul certain materials that would be HAZMAT (and thus placardable) when in quantities of 1000 pounds or less, but cannot haul the same material if it weighs more than 1000 pounds. The only thing that will change my mind is if the FMCSA changes the definition of Hazardous Material.

    Do you even know the definition of "HAZMAT"? Because everything stems from that.

    According to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA), the term hazmat, or hazardous materials, "includes those materials designated by the Secretary of the Department of Transportation as posing an unreasonable threat to the public and the environment."

    Further, from from Definitions. - Part 383
    ยง 383.5

    "Hazardous materials means any material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR part 172 or any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR part 73."

    The Hazardous Materials Table lists all items that are hazardous, and the quantity that establishes them as such. Some materials are hazardous in any quantity at all, and others require a certain quantity to be classified as HAZMAT.

    No... the 1001# rule is for determining certain materials that are classified as HAZMAT. Certain materials that weight less than 1001 pounds do not have to be placarded, because it is not classified as HAZMAT. If you don't placard that corrosive load, because it doesn't have to be placarded, true enough it doesn't automatically become non-corrosive, but it does automatically become non-hazardous material. A single truck battery on a skid is most definitely corrosive, but it also most definitely doesn't need to be placarded, or marked on the BOL as HM, because it is not hazardous material which poses an "unreasonable threat to the public and the environment."

    Some materials only become an "unreasonable threat to the public and the environment" once it reaches a certain quantity. That's what the 1001# rule is for.

    One of the worst things you can do in this business is use common sense to reason out an interpretation of the DOT regs, as most of them don't make much sense in the first place. It's always best to go and read the actual regulation and see what it says. That way there is no doubt.
  19. gunnrunnerX

    gunnrunnerX New Recruit

    Ok, let's see if I can explain this so you can understand.....
    If I have a 100 lb container of corrosive, the container has to have HAZMAT LABELS on the container(which means it is hazmat), the paperwork has to be marked as HAZMAT, but you don't have to have HAZMAT PLACARDS on the truck.
    It is still a corrosive. If this container leaks, you have to have a HAZMAT team come out to clean up the leak and overpack the container. Because it's under 1001 lbs, you wouldn't say it's not a danger to anyone who would stick their hand in it, would you?
    Do you have a hazmat endorsement?? I've been hauling hazmat for 18 years.....
  20. nightcreacher

    nightcreacher New Recruit

    I once was with a company that hauled no haz mat loads,but every driver had to have the Haz mat endorcement,just incase a shipper tried to put a haard load on one of his trucks

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