Your Thoughts About Going to California?

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
That could be problematic. If you were to call can you get that information?
With Panther, the way they currently do it is it shows whats there, whats due in, and whether there are teams or not. I do think our last 5 day daily average is sometimes flawed, because it counts all loads, including the brokered ones.
 
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bludragon13

Seasoned Expediter
Very interesting topic. I can only go on recent (kinda) past experience. Nov,08.,the Wed. before thanksgiving,got load offer leaving on monday,got layover in Indy,to Riverside,ca. arrived and while waiting to be unloaded got offer for Yuma,AZ to Orlando,Fl.(to much dh for some?) full rate . then in dec.08,week before christmas same thing only to Sacremento,followed by two minis then Christmas at realatives in Az. back to Ca. and load from LAX to DWF,less then 12hr in Ca.after returning from the holidays. 14hr in Denton had load to baltimore,Md.(load out from Ca. was interesting as it was a fedex terminal). Conclusion for us ,if you are making a profit then the number of trucks where you are going is irrelevant,worry about it when you get there. It's all about profit, if it takes you a long time to decide you don't have a good handle on your costs.
Another example took a mini this week South Bend,In to Chicago got offer before del.,that p/u 14mi from del. going to Orange,Ia. Guess what the average loads per day were from N.Ia? Using what many do as a formula we would have turned down this load but didn't, 6hr after droping we had 3 offers took the one to Al.from Sioux falls, Sd. The point is you have to think for yourself and take a chance once in awhile, nothing ventured nothing ever gained,and a little dh should be viewed as a chance to see the sights along the way.
On the Ca. thing while waiting it is hard to believe anyone would layover in Ontario,Ca. we haven't since early '06, check out the board maps duh!
 
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TonyG

Seasoned Expediter
It would really be nice to be able to view the load boards near your destination, like typing in zip code. Only thing I get i trk# ##### is on pro
 

broker

Seasoned Expediter
Before I get started, hope nobody felt I was saying someone had bashed me already. I was just saying if that happens, I just ignore it.

More and more I'm reminded just how intelligent Expeditors are.
I'm proud to be part of this business group.

The observations I keep getting out of this topic is, no two days are going to be the same.
Loads, area, pay, etc.
If we could have one tool, it would be a crystal ball.
My fleet owner has one and it works most the time.:eek:

May I give an opinion on number of trucks sitting or are going to be where you are going (remember the crystal ball?)
We really have no idea.
I don't even know how many trucks from my own carrier are going to there.
Example:
Unloaded, went to truck stop. I'm number two on the board in an area that has 4 loads a day (for our carrier) going out.
After 4 days I'm stiil there.
Why? Well, 3 first outs came to town durring this time period and kept pushing me back.
I'M NOT COMPLAINING, just showing you what could happen.
Another time I was sitting (number 3) in a 1 load a day area and saw only one truck on another board that had 2 loads a day. I took off and guess what? 3 other trucks decided the samething and beat me. Now I'm number 5.

One thing I've learned about board positioning, nothing is a guarantee.
BIG JOHN
 

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
This may be trying time but when I see the same Unites right now keep running to CA AZ CO WA all the time I am going to fly the BS Flag. I say Danna Fife Foo Eee.

Heading towards Mickey Mouse, Makes a buck
Drop at Mickeys and roll to South Carolina.
I herd someone wants to wrestle me.
Bring it!!!Anytime any where.
BERRR !BERRR! I just herd Buzzer it's time to go to school !!
Charlie Hunt my Friend its time for your Shave and Hair Cut.
I don't want to here your like Samson you loose all your Powers. ROTFLMAO.:)

Have nice day.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
When it comes to scoping out express centers ahead of time, there may be some fog but we are not operating in the dark either.

First comes the ahead of time part. Once you get to know the system (VRU in our carrier's case), it does not take long to get a feel on a few express centers. Doing this before you get load offers helps you decide on the offers when they come in.

Contrary to what broker suggests, Diane and I have a pretty good idea of what to expect when we are heading to a given express center. We cannot predict what the truck count will be at the moment of our arrival, but we do not have to be to-the-truck specific to make profitable load accept/decline decisions.

Once you have been with your carrier for a few months, you gain a feel for busy and slow areas, truck counts for a given express center, and busy and slow times in a given area. While a load offer may come at any time, there are times of the day and week when they come more than others. People brand new to the business do not need to move 100 times to get the feel. If you are new, talk to others about how they position themselves for freight and what they avoid.

In time, you figure things out; like if you are sitting in Saint Louis on Saturday morning and you have been there since Wednesday waiting for freight, it is probably better to deadhead to Chicago than Kansas City. Or, if it is Friday noon in Louisville and you are thinking about deadheading home, it may be best to wait until close of business local time before heading out, as a good offer may still bubble up in Louisville. Or, a load delivering in Kansas City Tuesday night would be a better choice than the same load delivering in the same town on Friday night. But if the load gets you out of Amarillo, Texas, it would be good to take whatever day of the week it delivers in Kansas City.

This is not the kind of stuff that you can teach. But it can be learned by expediters who set out to do so.

Keeping a run journal is one of the best ways to learn and maximize your freight opportunities. A journal is specific to your truck, credentials and equipment. You can see the freight patterns your personal accept/decline decisions create over time. With that information in hand, you can do more of what works and less of what doesn't. If you are open to trying something new, like going to the west coast when you have not before, or going to New York City, you can compare the new runs to your historical base to determine if they are worth it.

Success means more than keeping your wheels moving. It means making money on the freight you haul. In addition to knowing where the busy places are, you need to know how much it costs to operate your truck and how much extra it costs to operate in some areas over others. Combining your operating cost knowledge with your freight center knowledge helps you make profitable decisions.

To illustrate, we once received an unusual call from a dispatcher who told us we had become known as one of the best teams in the fleet. She shined us up real good with praise about our performance, appearance, etc. At the time, such a call was a first for us. We felt great hearing that feedback.

Then she presented her load offer. We were to pick up a custom-made bicycle on the East Coast, transport it to a hotel on the West Coast, stay with it for a day or two and bring it back. I do not recall the exact pay offered.

Wow! Not only were we a good team, we would be entrusted to safely transport a very important prototype for a very important customer to a very important meeting. Naturally, we were inclined to say yes.

But we said no. Because we kept a run journal and knew our numbers, we quickly figured out that we could probably make more money in the same amount of time and driving less miles by hauling short runs up and down the East Coast. Without a run journal, we would have been suckered into a lower-profit decision by the high praise, ego freight, and deceptive home-run paycheck.

Know your numbers. Know your price. Know how much extra it costs to run in certain areas or to haul certain kinds of freight (reefer, lift gate, etc.). And GET FAIRLY PAID FOR WHAT YOU DO.
 
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iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
When it comes to scoping out express centers ahead of time, there may be some fog but we are not operating in the dark either.

First comes the ahead of time part. Once you get to know the system (VRU in our carrier's case), it does not take long to get a feel on a few express centers. Doing this before you get load offers helps you decide on the offers when they come in.

Contrary to what broker suggests, Diane and I have a pretty good idea of what to expect when we are heading to a given express center. We cannot predict what the truck count will be at the moment of our arrival, but we do not have to be to-the-truck specific to make profitable load accept/decline decisions.

Once you have been with your carrier for a few months, you gain a feel for busy and slow areas, truck counts for a given express center, and busy and slow times in a given area. While a load offer may come at any time, there are times of the day and week when they come more than others. People brand new to the business do not need to move 100 times to get the feel. If you are new, talk to others about how they position themselves for freight and what they avoid.

In time, you figure things out; like if you are sitting in Saint Louis on Saturday morning and you have been there since Wednesday waiting for freight, it is probably better to deadhead to Chicago than Kansas City. Or, if it is Friday noon in Louisville and you are thinking about deadheading home, it may be best to wait until close of business local time before heading out, as a good offer may still bubble up in Louisville. Or, a load delivering in Kansas City Tuesday night would be a better choice than the same load delivering in the same town on Friday night. But if the load gets you out of Amarillo, Texas, it would be good to take whatever day of the week it delivers in Kansas City.

This is not the kind of stuff that you can teach. But it can be learned by expediters who set out to do so.

Keeping a run journal is one of the best ways to learn and maximize your freight opportunities. A journal is specific to your truck, credentials and equipment. You can see the freight patterns your personal accept/decline decisions create over time. With that information in hand, you can do more of what works and less of what doesn't. If you are open to trying something new, like going to the west coast when you have not before, or going to New York City, you can compare the new runs to your historical base to determine if they are worth it.

Success means more than keeping your wheels moving. It means making money on the freight you haul. In addition to knowing where the busy places are, you need to know how much it costs to operate your truck and how much extra it costs to operate in some areas over others. Combining your operating cost knowledge with your freight center knowledge helps you make profitable decisions.

To illustrate, we once received an unusual call from a dispatcher who told us we had become known as one of the best teams in the fleet. She shined us up real good with praise about our performance, appearance, etc. At the time, such a call was a first for us. We felt great hearing that feedback.

Then she presented her load offer. We were to pick up a custom-made bicycle on the East Coast, transport it to a hotel on the West Coast, stay with it for a day or two and bring it back. I do not recall the exact pay offered.

Wow! Not only were we a good team, we would be entrusted to safely transport a very important prototype for a very important customer to a very important meeting. Naturally, we were inclined to say yes.

But we said no. Because we kept a run journal and knew our numbers, we quickly figured out that we could probably make more money in the same amount of time and driving less miles by hauling short runs up and down the East Coast. Without a run journal, we would have been suckered into a lower-profit decision by the high praise, ego freight, and deceptive home-run paycheck.

Know your numbers. Know your price. Know how much extra it costs to run in certain areas or to haul certain kinds of freight (reefer, lift gate, etc.). And GET FAIRLY PAID FOR WHAT YOU DO.


Yes I agree but then trying to tell somebody that lives in the past what happened 1 to 2 to 3 to 5 year ago don't work today. Patience is wearing thin. Micky's resort is a bad move. The DH out waste. Hope-en for a load out it just don't happen. Maybe if a Liftgates and Broom sticks load wish not likely.
I hope this soaks in. Pay heed. I'm no Jeeb's.
Vespa Can ya here me now.
 
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broker

Seasoned Expediter
ATeam, one thing I figured out long ago, you are #1 when it comes to someone trying to help others in this business.
As I said before, Kathy and I would go to any post you made while searching this out.
May I add, we still do.

However (don't you just hate that word) one of my light bulbs just went off reading your last post.
The advice and opinions you give, always come from how "you" operate.
That would be fine if:
We all had sold everything we owned
We "lived" in our small truck box.
We had the resources you have to figure stuff
We all lived the same lifestyle you do.
We were debt free like you.
We had a truck set up like yours and could have the choice of frieght you do.
We were all O/O's/
However (there it is again) one of the most overlooked issues is, we don't all drive for the same carrrier as you do.

All of us do have one thing in common, we all haul freight.
Not so when it comes to policies, dispatch, customer base, running areas, load pay, deadhead pay, relocating after load empty, can we broker or not, do they put multiple loads on one truck, hazmat, Canada, elite, etc.

Your opinions on how to run a business are priceless stuff, thank you.
However (oops) to try and pick and choose loads or areas to be in that you do, is not a way for me to be more profitable.
I do not work for your carrier, not elite certified, I have a single axle straght truck and work for a fleet owner, just to name a few differences.

Big example.
I'm sitting waiting for my next load offer.
Next to me is an elite setup truck from another carrier.
I get an offer and take it (2,000 pound normal freight)
Get the truck fired up and dispatch says, load cancelled.
Look over and the elite truck has fired up and it looks like the driver is going to a fire.
We had talked the day before, so I rolled the window down and said, must have got a load?
Yep, just got a call to go pick up a 2,000 general freight run.
Yes, it was my load and he didn't know it.
I asked for how much. His reply, well under my normal pay, around $1.20 a mile but it's a load.
Yep, his company had undercut mine as I was accepting it.

I'm going to sound like a broken record but even this newbie is figuring somethings out pretty fast.
Here I go again:
Everyday is a new day and nothing will be the same as yesterday.\

ATeam, your typical day, will never be my typical day.

Got to love this business, right?
BIG JOHN
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Yes I agree but then trying to tell somebody that lives in the past what happend 1 to 2 to 3 to 5 year ago don't work today. My Patience is wearing thin.

The techniques described above work as well today as they have anytime we have been in the business. Our actions differ because external circumstances have changed for the worse. The decision-making process with an eye on profitability remains the same. Our profits are down as the freight has slowed, but profitable we remain.

Patience is an emotional or mental state, but money enters in too. The more you built your reserve funds in good times, the more patient you can be in bad times.
 

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The techniques described above work as well today as they have anytime we have been in the business. Our actions differ because external circumstances have changed for the worse. The decision-making process with an eye on profitability remains the same. Our profits are down as the freight has slowed, but profitable we remain.

Patience is an emotional or mental state, but money enters in too. The more you built your reserve funds in good times, the more patient you can be in bad times.


Patience, you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
Making a move from bad to better should be better. The reason one makes a move the American Green back, Equipment ect ect, Reserves if are none, Then one should hope all the Hype is true. Ive not seen anything yet that was Talked.
I say show me.
Hopefully what u have written will be seen.

Triple Thanks.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The advice and opinions you give, always come from how "you" operate.

Absolutely. I don't know enough about how other people think, feel and make decisions to talk about how they operate. I share our way not as the way, but as a way others can consider.

That would be fine if:
We all had sold everything we owned
We "lived" in our small truck box.
We had the resources you have to figure stuff
We all lived the same lifestyle you do.
We were debt free like you.
We had a truck set up like yours and could have the choice of frieght you do.
We were all O/O's/
However (there it is again) one of the most overlooked issues is, we don't all drive for the same carrrier as you do.

You do that a lot, talk about how we are different than everyone else. In some ways we are. But the fact that we live the lifestyle we do has little to do with the fundamental business principles I advocate.

If we kept our house, cars and goods, we would run our business the same way. If we had kids and grandkids and liked to squirt our hard-earned money into slot machines, we would run our business the same way. If we felt the need to go home for two weeks in eight, we would run our business the same way. If we ran a dry box truck for a non-elite expedite carrier, we would run our business the same way.

Keeping a run journal makes sense no matter what kind of expediter you are, in my opinion. Why would you not want to have the information that helps you choose more profitable loads over less-profitable loads?

Using whatever resources are available to you to develop a sense of express centers, freight flow and truck counts makes sense for all expediers, does it not? Why would you want to run blind if you don't have to?

Living within our means is something we do. Do you know of any expediter that can survive and prosper by living beyond one's means?

You frequently put the spotlight on our unusual lifestyle. The business practices (not lifestyle practices) I advocate can be done by any expediter regardless of lifestyle.

Have a business plan. Live within your means. Build capital reserves. Optimize your freight opportunities. Understand how freight flows. Know your experess centers. No one needs to sell their house to do any of those.

Howerver, (Ha!) if we were up to our eyeballs in debt, we would not be in the business at all. Expediting is not a good business to be in if you have no capital and are living hand-to-mouth. Expediters should not be driven by debt. They should be driven by profits.

However (oops) to try and pick and choose loads or areas to be in that you do, is not a way for me to be more profitable.
I do not work for your carrier, not elite certified, I have a single axle straght truck and work for a fleet owner, just to name a few differences.

The differences are noted but I fail to understand you would not be more profitable by picking and choosing your loads. I don't know any independent-contractor expediters that have improved their profitability by accepting every load they are offered. I don't know anyone in the Open Forum that thinks doing so is wise.

Big example.
I'm sitting waiting for my next load offer.
Next to me is an elite setup truck from another carrier.
I get an offer and take it (2,000 pound normal freight)
Get the truck fired up and dispatch says, load cancelled.
Look over and the elite truck has fired up and it looks like the driver is going to a fire.
We had talked the day before, so I rolled the window down and said, must have got a load?
Yep, just got a call to go pick up a 2,000 general freight run.
Yes, it was my load and he didn't know it.
I asked for much. His reply, well under my normal pay, around $1.20 a mile but it's a load.
Yep, his company had undercut mine as I was accepting it.

Are you saying you would have been more profitable if your carrier bid even lower so you could haul the load even cheaper? If so, I would disagree. The same thing has happened to us, though not as directly. We get a good offer, accept it, start to roll on it, only to have it cancel, presumably because the shipper found someone to do the load cheaper.

When that happens, what do we do next? We don't exploit some technique that is available only to us because we sold our house. We do the same thing that has worked for us and others for years. We make the next best decisions we can, using the best freight flow, express center, truck count, operating cost and other information we can develop.
 
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broker

Seasoned Expediter
ATeam, I respect your years of service to Expediting.
I am not going to keep debating back and forth.
I gave my opinions and you have given yours.
We are now becoming redundant. (yes, I can use big words when I want):D

You are also starting to leave out key words from comments I've made and that is not fair.
Example.
I said, I would not be as profitable, if I picked loads like YOU do. Key word, YOU.
I did not, as you want it to sound, say that I did not pick loads.

Your debts or the lack of, do have a big bearing on what loads some of us take and don't.
If I have a payment to make this week and don't have the funds to cover it, I'll take a load I might not next week.
I am the norm, I have debts.
I do not know many people who do not.

Sorry "if" (key word, IF) you have taken some of my posts personal, it was never aimed that way.

You and your wife have a life style most of us can only dream of.
Some would be jealous, I am happy for you.
May God continue to bless both of you each day.
BIG JOHN and Kathy
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
If I have a payment to make this week and don't have the funds to cover it, I'll take a load I might not next week.
I am the norm, I have debts.
I do not know many people who do not.

Now you are scaring me. If you are out here trying to make money as an expediter and don't have the funds to cover next week's payment, you are living dangerously.

See this example. This guy gave it his best for over a year but business costs and slow freight brought him down. With the benefit of hindsight, it is clear that the year could have been better used working most any other job, maybe as a company driver, maybe as a janitor or factory worker, maybe as a teacher or trainer of some sort. Anything would have worked out better.

Could he have seen it coming? I believe a number of us on the Open Forum would say yes. The red flag, the give-away tell is his lack of capital (money in the bank to fund unexpected developments and slow freight times).

If you are accepting loads to pay next week's bills, you are not running your business. Other people are running you. (I am hoping now that you were telling the truth when you said you had a thick skin.)

Diane and I did not become debt free by accident and we won no lotteries to get us there. If you are in debt and don't want to be, there are ways to get out. Dave Ramsey is a resource that comes to mind. A number of Open Forum members speak highly of his advice and materials.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Hi Folks,

Hope your all well. Had to comment here. California will survive.

More leter,goota run.

Cheers

TC
 

broker

Seasoned Expediter
ATeam, as the movie saying goes, "I think what we have here, is a failure to communicate".

As for my own personal life. It is of nobodys business, especially on an internet site.
I was giving an example (could have been my fault for the way I said it) to the many that have posted on here about lack of funds, etc.,
I thought you would understand what I was talking about.
How many times have you read why a newbie is thinking of getting into this. For all the wrong reasons.

As for having debts.
You know, some of us can live a very happy life, having a house mortgage or a car payment.
Some of the most successful people I know have these debts.

As for paying someone to tell me how to get out of debt, that would be for those who are living well beyond their means, not us.

I am begining to feel you think the way you live (debt free, home on the road, etc.) is the way everyone should live.
The way you operate in Expediting, is the way everyone should.
Am I wrong?

I was hoping you were giving advice, as one who has been here for sometime.
Kind of like an advisor.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

I do like to be on the same page.
BIG JOHN
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Sometimes a drum can be beat but no one hears. The reality is Phil does what works for Phil, and makes sure everyone knows it.
Is it the best way? Not hardly in my opinion, but I am assuming it is the best for him. I can look at that as many others can, because myself and others have already been where Phil is currently at.
Stay in the business long enough and everyone evolves to different places it seems.
I do agree with Phil on one point. If one is seeking a genuine path to be debt free, Dave Ramsey is a good source to start the ball rolling.
 

broker

Seasoned Expediter
Wow,
you just said in one paragraph what I have been trying to say for days.
Pretty cool stuff Dave.
OK, all of us have watched people who have won millions in a lottery say: I might buy a new car, give money to relatives, etc. but, I'm going to keep my job at Wal-Mart. (EXAMPLE, not word for word)
You see, I would be one of those.
I would give most my money away and keep working somewhere, maybe own my own business (even though I could live the rest of my life without working)

I'm not going to push my religious beliefs on you fine folks, but, my understranding is, too much money is the root of all evil and that we are to work for our fruits.
That is all I will say about that subject. So please, no religious debates. That is just my own feelings, not telling anyone it should be theirs.

I don't mind having a house or car payment.
I doubt I will ever be debt free and don't really care if I am.

Am I still a successful person?
Darn right, I would bore you and sound like I was tooting a horn if I told you of what I have accomplished in this world so far.

Dave, I also will agree with you about seeking advice "IF" you want to be "debt free".

To each their own.

For Kathy and I, retirement is not in our picture.
We want to work until it is time to go home (upstairs) and we will be very happy living like this.

BIG JOHN
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I am begining to feel you think the way you live (debt free, home on the road, etc.) is the way everyone should live.
The way you operate in Expediting, is the way everyone should.
Am I wrong?

Yes. You are wrong.
 
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