why are owners so crooked

[MentalGiant]

When ever I see this head line "Why are owners so crooked?." I wonder what the owners who lent their Cargo Van to the babe selling what ever she had at the moment, out of their truck, only to abandon their truck and find another owner & do it again. They may have a different view on "crooked" owners.

How often does that occur? Compare to the number of fleet owners taking advantage of the drivers? I don't know, you probably don't know. So, we get it, it happens to fleet owners also. But, that wasn't the topic of this thread, was it now?

 

[Yesteryear]

Yep, agree with Mentalgiant. Apples and oranges. All the owner has to do is call the police and make a report. There is an bolo put out for the cargo van and the driver is arrested, or if the van is not recovered the owner is paid off by the insurance carrier. A driver calls the police and says the truck owner won't give them their pay the police officer certainly doesn't put a bolo on the truck owner. They are simply told it's a civil matter. Go Figure!

 

[BillChaffey]

This thread starts out "I know it's the same ole story" don't you think six pages of saying get it in writing is enough?

 

[MentalGiant]

Wow, you must of taken that personally. I apologize if you took offense, but I would have to say, more drivers have been hurt financially by their owners than the owners being hurt by being taking advantage of. Which is what this thread is about. Just making a point, the six pages you refer to was about the owners being a crook, not the drivers. By all means, start a thread about the drivers being a crook, I'm sure you will get some responses from that.

 

[Yesteryear]

This thread starts out "I know it's the same ole story" don't you think six pages of saying get it in writing is enough?

Yeah bearcat, six pages that you must not of read very well or you would see where we keep telling you WE DID GET IT IN WRITING! It doesn't matter if it is in writing! A thief is a thief is a THIEF! A contract does not stop a thief from stealing from the driver! If an owner is going to steal he is going to steal regardless of a contract. I don't know a single driver that has been in a truck without a contract being signed but I know lots and lots of drivers that have been 'ripped off' by the truck owner.

"Officer, Officer, that truck owner stole my money!" Oh my, let me see, yeah "calling all cars, calling all cars, be on the look out for a bad truck owner".

 

[davekc]

Yeah bearcat, six pages that you must not of read very well or you would see where we keep telling you WE DID GET IT IN WRITING! It doesn't matter if it is in writing! A thief is a thief is a THIEF! A contract does not stop a thief from stealing from the driver! If an owner is going to steal he is going to steal regardless of a contract. I don't know a single driver that has been in a truck without a contract being signed but I know lots and lots of drivers that have been 'ripped off' by the truck owner.

"Officer, Officer, that truck owner stole my money!" Oh my, let me see, yeah "calling all cars, calling all cars, be on the look out for a bad truck owner".

The drive by is gone.....black whoever. Just curious, would you then think as many drivers steal from the owners? Selling fuel, abandoned trucks, selling equipment out of the truck and what ever else you see posted? I personally think there is a little cleaning that could be done on both sides.
Just my penny in the pond.

 

[Yesteryear]

The drive by is gone.....black whoever. Just curious, would you then think as many drivers steal from the owners? Selling fuel, abandoned trucks, selling equipment out of the truck and what ever else you see posted? I personally think there is a little cleaning that could be done on both sides.
Just my penny in the pond.

Ya know Davekc, in all seriousness, it is so so very sad that you are probably very right. I am sure there are drivers that have done those awful things just as there are truck owners that have stolen from drivers. But ya know what, 2 wrongs on opposite sides don't make either side right. I would never do any of the above atrocities regardless of how I felt I was wronged , or for whatever reason these people have for doing the things they do. Honesty and integrity is a matter of respecting one's self for surely someone that respects themselves also respects others. To steal anothers property, be it money or objects, or to not care for anothers property that is entrusted to one is to disrespect one's self. I personally have never seen a driver do these things but I know it does happen. It is sad on both sides.

 

[TS462]

Have you ever thought about it.. I mean when your in the truck the owner kinda treats you kinda good. I mean there might be some pay issues but atleast you get some kind of a check. because i think they are afriad of all the things you could to screw them. Selling fuel or things in the trucks whatever the case might be. Not saying its right just the facts. BUt when they have there truck and fuel card. Now the big question is are u going to get your last 2 weeks worth of money. Now this is the part i get fuzzy on. I have my contract and promise from the owner that says as the truck is brought back the same way i got it theres no problem on them paying me.... Would we all agree that most contracts and owners say that ???? Now here comes the big problem his or her truck is now sitting not making any money. But i guess they are forgetting about the fact most gets paid 2 weeks in the rears so there is money coming in. But you think like i have said your trying to strong arm them into paying you your money you worked for it and now because you have no control over it anymore they can just say no i'm not paying you and there is nothing you can really do. The company will not help you because your a sub contractor and god forbid they make a fleet owner mad by saying pay this man his money

 

[TS462]

Lets just make this real simple...... Most of us that have been doing this any amount of time.... Know once you quit your owner for whatever reason... Your most likely getting the shaft.... Because they can do it and there is not alot we can do about it....

 

[charlee]

I am sure Dave is not condoning dishonest owners either, but it is always very interesting to read about all the "dishonest owners who take advantage of drivers" from people who drive the 100,000$ + trucks for owners. We have had trucks returned (NICE TRUCKS, when the drivers got them) smelling so bad of pet urine that the entire truck had to be be dismantled all the way to the metal flooring, new flooring installed and everything replaced. We have had drivers not check transmission fluid and burn out transmissions to the tune of $8000. We have had drivers that simply think the "funny feeling in the steering will go away" just to go thru new steers in 3 months ( 800-950 $ a pop). We have had drivers that attempted to sell fuel. We have had drivers that break everything in a sleeper they touch. Fleet drivers can be expensive.



On the flip side, we have had and do have wonderful drivers that take care of the equipment like it was their own. They truly are difficult to find, no matter how many references you check and how someone may look.....you never can tell until you give people a chance.



I am sure Dave does like we do and sits with people and tells them all of the ins and out of being a otr driver...from frequent fueler cards to how to get showers to repositioning and how to make each system work for them. That is something that hopefully a good fleet owner does.



I read of these horrible fleet owner stories and look and surprise very seldom see horrible driver stories posted.


I see teams that want to drive for a fleet owner but only in a truck that would in all rights only be specced out for an owner.


I ask all of you IC's, why do you not have $130,000 invested in your own truck? Too much risk to get your own truck?


There are two sides to every coin. And please do not think I am saying that dishonest fleet owners are acceptable.....I abhor the practices of some of the fleet owners that are spoken of on here and have had drivers from them come to us......but at the same timem until you have been a fleet owner and experienced the flip side, I would be rather hesitant to say that there are more fleet owners that have "stolen" from drivers than vice-versa.


-charlee

 

[pjjjjj]

Just wondering if this might work..

What if drivers said to owner 2 weeks ahead.. 'I'm scheduling 2 weeks vacation for Week X and Week Y'.. Then at the beginning of Week X, they get paid for previous 2 weeks.. at end of Week Y they get paid up to beginning of vacation.. zero now owing.. now give 2 weeks notice, and don't do any further runs? Or are there still holdbacks on top of that?

And when truck is returned, are drivers getting something signed saying truck was returned in agreed upon condition, in agreed upon location, and with agreed upon amount of fuel? If you get the correct paperwork, it'd be easy to take it further to get what's owing?

 

[charlee]

So what about the driver that gets a ticket they did not report? The carrier pays the ticket because it is on their MC number. The carrier then deducts the ticket from the owners settlement. Whoops driver is gone and it costs the owner the money. Yes this happens. We rent equipment to IC's to run their own business. They have an equipment rental contract. IF we or they decide to teminate the rental contract, a two weeks notice must be given. We must allow them to run two weeks (unless they have been disqualified by carrier) or pay them a daily fee due to having unavailable equipment and they must run two weeks or pay a daily truck rental fee. Very good attorneys set this contract up with the directive to protect BOTH us and the IC's. It was set up this way because we have been drivers also......we spend several hours going over every detail....but you would be surprised how people forget the 2 weeks notice part. I hate going to court, but everytime we have won...because of our contract. I used to think I had seen and experienced a lot....then I became a fleet owner



-charlee

 

[bubblehead]

Just wondering if this might work..

What if drivers said to owner 2 weeks ahead.. 'I'm scheduling 2 weeks vacation for Week X and Week Y'.. Then at the beginning of Week X, they get paid for previous 2 weeks.. at end of Week Y they get paid up to beginning of vacation.. zero now owing.. now give 2 weeks notice, and don't do any further runs? Or are there still holdbacks on top of that?

And when truck is returned, are drivers getting something signed saying truck was returned in agreed upon condition, in agreed upon location, and with agreed upon amount of fuel? If you get the correct paperwork, it'd be easy to take it further to get what's owing?

I that situation, the driver lost an entire month of work. If his truck averaged 15k and he got 40%, it cost him/her 6k to collect 2wks back pay (adjust down for advances if allowed.)

We had a friend who realized he was (not might) going to get ripped by the owner so he waited until he got a good load, took his 45% advance, went to a truck stop and cashed out. Then he called in to the dispatcher claiming the truck was broke and got the load transfered. I don't agree with his method however, the customer got served, he got his money(most of it) and the truck started to work again so he returned it to the owner cleaned, fueled and everything intact. After the owner adjusted for the advanced, my friend only lost $800 instead of almost 3k.

 

[BillChaffey]

How difficult can it be to have any monies being put in escrow, have the escrow held by a third party agreeable to both owner & driver(s). Also whats wrong with having an Arbitration clause in the contract. Lastly if anyone who works for someone else on the promise "the checks in the mail" should have a figure in mind of when work stops until the check arrives.

 

[bubblehead]

How difficult can it be to have any monies being put in escrow, have the escrow held by a third party agreeable to both owner & driver(s). Also whats wrong with having an Arbitration clause in the contract. Lastly if anyone who works for someone else on the promise "the checks in the mail" should have a figure in mind of when work stops until the check arrives.

Excellent points bear...a thread titled OWNER/DRIVER CONTRACTS would be useful for people to share information. As for this thread, why not let it be for "why are owners so crooked" and have a thread similar about DRIVERS etc. That way when people are searching for information, they can go directly to the topic of interest. I for one would give equal attention to a similar thread about drivers.

 

[charlee]

possibly even why are SOME owners so crooked or Some drivers......because not all fit the bill.


As to escrow accounts, we have an escrow account with our carrier for each truck leased on. We have thought about escrow accounts for drivers, but when talking to current and previous drivers NONE of them liked the idea. As to arbitration, that is a good idea, and the costs would need to split down the middle. Most, not all but most drivers do not want to pay out of pocket costs for things like that.


-charlee

 

[pjjjjj]

..... We have thought about escrow accounts for drivers, but when talking to current and previous drivers NONE of them liked the idea .....

Sorry Charlee, I wasn't siding with any one side. I absolutely understand the owner's point of view also. From the sounds of it though, it's coming across as if this is a huge, widespread problem with owners not paying the final settlement. Of course not all owners, but I'm getting that this is a big problem out there.

I don't think most owners like the idea of an escrow either, but there has to be one. The owners should also have one for the drivers to cover any items that can come up, such as a ticket the owner isn't aware of at the time. But, it can't just be used as another method for a cheating owner to get more of the driver's earned money. A third party to hold the funds and an abritration clause is a great idea. Of course, nothing matters much if there is no contract and drivers don't educate themselves enough to know they need these things.

I used to think I had seen and experienced a lot....then I became a fleet owner

After having been an employer for 3 years, I can only imagine... enlightening to be on the other side of the fence once in awhile, isn't it though?

 

[Yesteryear]

There are two sides to every coin. And please do not think I am saying that dishonest fleet owners are acceptable.....I abhor the practices of some of the fleet owners that are spoken of on here and have had drivers from them come to us......but at the same timem until you have been a fleet owner and experienced the flip side, I would be rather hesitant to say that there are more fleet owners that have "stolen" from drivers than vice-versa.


-charlee

No Charlee, Dave is not saying he condones bad truck owners. We all realize that. Actually what Dave says is correct. He is just stating the facts the way he sees. (although some is through the eyes of an honest truck owner that just doesn't seem to quite understand the bad truck owner).


As for why we don't buy a truck, funny, we thought about doing just that when we were with the truck owner that wasn't paying us. Actually even called a EO sponsor that sells trucks (Ellenbaums) and talked to them about financing. We started to do it then got to thinking, do we really know enough, even after almost a year of driving to put our house up for collateral? Hmmmm I don't think so. And ya know what because we didn't go through with it we still own our home in Kansas free and clear. I would bet if we had went through with it and then have the economy fall like it has, we wouldn't have a truck or a house.


As for bad drivers, bet your boots there are nasty ones. I mean think about how nasty the truck stops are. Went walking this morning, trash thrown every where, smell of urine, disgusting. Like I said I have heard really disgusting stories of drivers and believe everyone of them. Matter of fact some really good friends of ours just started driving for Judd Trans, same truck owner as us, Sally Ann (trucknlace on EO) could not believe how disgustingly dirty the previous drivers left the truck. Fortunately they only had it a few weeks before Brian bought them a brand new truck. Have seen a few trucks you could not pay me to get into. So, oh yeah, their are definately bad bad bad drivers.

People ask us why we won't rent our house out. Simple, renters destroy, for the most part they don't own it so they don't care! Same with trucks and drivers. It's very sad!

 

[davekc]

You are correct. I am not a fan of owners that are rip off artists. Maybe another thread, but this idea of paying thousands for a driving school to obtain a class B license is nothing but a rip-off. If you see a fleet owner with a "school", do nothing but RUN.
Case in point. We just helped a team obtain a class B license in the state of Ohio where they reside. The cost was 75.00 per person for the test, and 139.00 for a vehicle to test in. A refresher course was 100 per person in case of a failure.
NOT THOUSANDS.
I did not hire this team because we only hire teams with previous experience. But they are making a nice addition to another fleet owner we know.
With regards to arbitration, I would have no interest unless it is something that is not in the contract. The driver wouldn't want to split legal fees any more than I would. Anything else is already in the contract. I wouldn't feel a need to negotiate something after the fact that is already addressed.
As for damage or something, we do use a third party to determine amounts of any said repairs. Just making up numbers is another sign of a rip-off artist.
Lastly, I do have a escrow for every truck. Just common sense. It addresses the issues already mentioned in other posts. Drivers don't mind paying a escrow if they know they will get it returned upon meeting conditions in their contract. That goes full circle back to the fleet owners reputation.
Is my way the right way? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on alot of factors. In our case, this is what works for us.
As for the goofball driving schools, save your money.

 

[bubblehead]

You are correct. I am not a fan of owners that are rip off artists. Maybe another thread, but this idea of paying thousands for a driving school to obtain a class B license is nothing but a rip-off. If you see a fleet owner with a "school", do nothing but RUN.
Is my way the right way? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on alot of factors. In our case, this is what works for us.
As for the goofball driving schools, save your money.

David I couldn't agree with you more. So why has EO partnered with one of those schools? See link below. (Read the left colum)This too I have e-mailed EO and never got a response, guess someone up at EO lost that e-mail also. It dosen't make sense.

Expedite Solutions