Union - Could it work, is it needed?

[chuckwagon]

While somewhat new in this industry, I find the expedite industry, for the drivers and some of the o/o, experience the same problems alot of workers throughout country do.
We have spoken on several thrends of deadhead miles, cheap freight, etc, low comp pay, etc.
My question is while there are unions in the long haul industry have there ever been or is there any discussion of a union for the expedite industry?
I have been a union rep in other industries before and find it interesting and somewhat upsetting with the problems we have we have no nationwide representation.
Input please.
Interest?

 

[TeamCaffee]

I don’t think much could make us leave expediting but if this industry where to become a union Bob and I are moving on. Personally if we had to start acting like the auto industry we might as well pack it up now instead of drawing it out for many years and whining because we are not treated right. We are in dependant contractors and it needs to stay that way.

 

[greg334]

chuckwagon,

You know there was an attempt to unionize IT workers a while ago. It fell apart quickly because of the problem that many move around in the industry and unionizing would stifle any progress one would have in regards of increasing one's rates by the change. I think that this industry is the same and that being a contracted contractor (yea I know) I see that unionizing would bring more problems to the table than they would solve.

With that said, consturction industry is unionized to a point and this is an area where they have people move around and seasonal work too.

I am courious what is your idea on how this will specifically improve our position with the companies?

 

[LDB]

An organization designed to impede progress overall while lining the pockets of a few corrupt union officials with my money... where do I sign up? Just to make it easier here's my recent union experience:

Dispatched today to Akron to pick up a hot order for a company that was shut down until these parts arrive. I get there at 1120 and am told which door to back up to. I am situated at the door and ready for the freight at 1125. I'm told they can't load 5 skids because lunch is 1130-noon and they're a union shop so they can't load into their lunch time and will do it at noon. Sooo, the other company gets to stay shut down an extra half hour plus because the union bums can't load 5 skids before lunch. And they wonder why people are down on unions.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[ihamner]

I think the key word here is "Independent." The phrase "Independent Contractors" means something to us. That includes being independent of union rules or dues that we have no say in how they are used. Yes we represent a large company but WE make our own decisions. In fact, we did a great deal of research before we joined FedEx to make certain they were not encumbered by a union.

India Hamner
FedEx CC
Staying alive is nice, but you can't do that forever. It's HOW you live the life you have while you have it.

 

[Moot]

Speaking as an owner/operator I find no reason to invite a 3rd party on board. My one employee, Me, is treated fairly and has a voice in the day to day operations of my business. I value his input and consider him family. I just wish I could control his internet access.
I am a former Teamster, teacher's union member, and some kind of food worker's union member and care for none of them. I joined because it was required. With the help of a 12-step program and therapy I was able to make it on my own.

During the 1980 presidential race I was a Teamster. The AFL/CIO, teacher's unions, and every form of organized labor backed the peanut farmer. Not surprising as organized labor traditionally votes for the Democratic candidate. What was surprising was the Teamster's endorsement of an actor from California. Gee, why would the Teamsters endorse a republican? How could he help them and the Central States Pension Fund?
Nine months after the pro-union actor became president he had a little spat with the people in the control towers.
Oh well, so it goes.

 

[greg334]

Hey Moot, never mind I will go off topic...

Anyway, unions do some good. Some unions are proactive and protect its members from abuse. I wish my wife would take my suggetion and promote a union where she works bbut she is afraid she will get fired.

on the other hand the UAW is the most usless union of all of them. With what is going on in the auto industry, the leadership knows exactly what plants are targeted because they sit on the board of Ford and GM. Starting with Willow Run to today's plant closures, the union is doing nothing for its workers. With Delphi, they should have had a stirke the second Delphi went to court asking to nullify the contract. Shut them down and hurt everyone to get the point that Labor is not going to be cr*ped on. But the leadership of the unions have been procompany for a long time.

Oh God I sound pro-union, got to get deprogrammed.

 

[sixwheeler]

Moot, IMHO, you d make a darn fine shop steward in Chuckwagons union.
Im presently making a list of grievances in the event you accept the position.

 

[lanier1]

There was a time in this country when unions were vitally needed. That time is decades past. This IS America. Don't like your job? Move on.

 

[yaaintdeadyet]

Union members (driver's, O/O's) and management (carrier's, fleet owners) would all operate under an agreed upon contract. The wages (CPM, Load %, etc.) negotiated into a contract wouldn't fall into a one size fit's all standard. Just as they are now. Albeit membership does offer group buying discounts. Along with the ability to find resolution to sub-standard service or goods. Which is where the crux of union bargaining and representation comes into play. All things considered, the sustaining value of an organized union is the ability to file a legally viable grievance.

 

[Made In Detroit]

I say let's do it.

 

[Moot]

I'm not anti-union. I don't like the fact that organized labor tends to drive a wedge between it's members and management. Unions emerged because of managements heavy handedness. In some cases (UAW)the unions have the upper hand. The problem lies with the balance of power. There is no balance.
I worked 13 years for a non-union LTL carrier. I had daily contact with Teamster members. My wages were linked to the Teamsters pay scale. We were always about .20 to .50 an hour or .02 to .03 a mile behind the Teamsters. We didn't pay dues or go on strike. But we did reap the benefits that they fought for. Of course we were expected to work a little harder and had fewer restrictions placed on us.
Thank you Teamsters! But for me, I prefer to be union free.

 

[greg334]

Quick Story.

A relative of mine worked for a company that was non-union the became a union shop. he got me a job there one summer as a forklift repairman on a contract basis.

This company had great benefits, great medical with company reemburstment on copays and liberal sick time/leasure time policies. The 401K was one of the rare ones that the company that matched the contributions dollar for dollar and vested company portions every 6 months and even had a profit sharing program if a profit level was met - I got a profit sharing check for the little time I was there.

The UAW came in and convinced a slight majority to go union so the company become a union shop.

The UAW negotiate the contract, medical insurance became uniformed to what the other UAW workers got - big reduction in everything and the co-pays are now the workers problem. The sicktime was now limited to 5 days or what ever the standard is but no lesure time anymore. The 401K went from dollar to dollar match to something like a 25% match that was now vested every 2 years. AND no more profit sharing.

The owners were asked by the long time employees why were they losing all of this with the union and the owners said that it was not their choice, the UAW told them what the UAW expected, told them that they will decide what the workers will get, gave them the contract and told them to sign because they will not negoiate. The onwers were willing to give the same package they were giving but the UAW wanted to decide for the workers. Yes the workers ratified the contract, they were given a line of bs. My relative went to a supervisor position to keep the benefits they had (no UAW representive for managment).

This company stopped growing soon after that and got bought up. The people who ended up retiring with a good retirement package were the long time workers but the people who were brought in after the union or started a few years before lost out on a good deal witht he UAW.

Would I recommend the UAW? No, after working at that company and working for the UAW, dealing with them on the insurance level, I think their time has past.

 

[yaaintdeadyet]

There are more union bargaining units than the UAW or the Teamsters. There are tangents of both which serve their members very well. It's also a very rare incident in deed when a union contracted business slides into disrepair. This takes place much more often with non-union contracted business.

 

[chuckwagon]

Let me answer a few of the quetions and points brought up to this point.
Correct, we are independent contractors.
Correct, one contract would not fit all situations.
Correct, there are other unions to consider other than UAW and Teamsters.

Now - while we are independent contractors my point is to become a group of organized independent contractors - set some standards, such as deadhead mile guidelines, pay per mile minimums, etc etc.

While one contract may not fit every situation I am sure that one standard guideline such as deadhead miles, right to refusals, pay per mile, would be a stronger standard than we have now.

I believe we should consider four or five different unions. Be it UAW or Teamsters or someone else.

As far as the post goes about showing up at a dock and having the union workers refuse to load you because it was coming up to there lunch break - I would say interesting situation. If we were union, even the same union, we would understand this - part of the problem is we have lost respect for the union in this country because we all want it our way all the time.

 

[bryan]

Hi

Thompson Emergency's Canadian O/O's were union, the American's were not.That all ended last year.
Good points:They raised the rate in 2000 for non-union O/O's,You always knew all the corp. gossip,and the union would send flowers to your funeral.

Bad points:The union stopped the company from signing on tractor-trailors when they really needed them,when ever the union O/O's got a raise they just took it from the non-union O/O's and they boycotted my van once because I was getting loaded aroung CND drivers.

Instaed of a union I think we just need better communications with our carriers.A little less whining and a little more creative criticism.

 

[cheri1122]

>An organization designed to impede progress overall while
>lining the pockets of a few corrupt union officials with my
>money... where do I sign up?

Leo: If you replace "a few corrupt union officials" with "a lot of corrupt, ineffective pals" you could be describing our political leadership - do we do away with the system, or the people who corrupt it? I don't know if a union is necessary, or even possible, but as was pointed out, the reason they exist is that they were needed - management often took advantage of labor, otherwise. A management that solicits input from labor, and works to resolve whatever obstacles prevent or impede them from being the best they can be, is a management that has no fear of unions, and a labor force that has no need for what unions offer. I'd prefer that kind of work environment, myself.

 

[darkunicorn]

Don’t even get me started on unions once upon a time yeah, but that time is long gone unions are run by gangsters that just want a peace of your $$$$$ and run the country in the dirt and protect deadbeats so some one else has to cover for them doubt that would work in expedite it has to be on time all the time, worked union job been there done that unions are more corrupt than our government and that’s bad! Any way said don’t get me started so in short there is a voice for us and its OOIDA http://www.ooida.com/ its as close to a union I want to get.

Alvin

 

[LDB]

>As far as the post goes about showing up at a dock and
>having the union workers refuse to load you because it was
>coming up to there lunch break - I would say interesting
>situation. If we were union, even the same union, we would
>understand this - part of the problem is we have lost
>respect for the union in this country because we all want it
>our way all the time.

We haven't lost respect the unions have forfeited respect by actions such as this one. To leave an entire company shut down for an extra half hour because some union anal orifice can't take lunch from 1134-1204 after loading 5 skids is inexcusable.

To be paid 8 hours wages after doing 4.5-5 hours work and going home is ridiculous and yet that goes on by the scores at union auto plants like the one my brother in law works for. Assemble the required quota of steering columns or wheels/tires or other offline components and you go home no matter how short your day. No wonder there is shoddy workmanship on U.S. assembly lines. The offline components are union krap work.

At one time unions were a good thing and sorely needed. They evolved from protecting workers from idiocy on the part of management to organized thieves and thugs. I have no desire to affiliate myself with such and certainly no desire to let such dip their hand into my money and that's the guaranteed outcome.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Bruno]

Union's are a bad thing. I would say no way to Union's