Testing Batteries

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
We have four 950 cca batteries in our truck. They are less than 1 year old. When parked the only things drawing power are our refrigerator, inverter and sometimes an overhead light. The inverter powers the tv, dvd, laptop and is used for charging phones and headsets.
Twice in the last month our batteries have run down so low we had to be jump started. When fully charged they only seem to last around 8 hours.
Testing them when fully charged and disconnected from the cables after sitting for 2 hours the volt meter reads 12.88 volts.
Is there any way to test them using a volt/ohm meter to see if they need to be replaced or how many amp capacity they have?
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
When Turtle wakes up he'll tell you all you need to know.

This is why,when talking APUs, I always recommend one that has a low voltage/autostart feature.
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
Yea, I'm waiting on Turtle.
Don't have an apu. Couldn't justify spending that many dollars for a truck as old as ours. Especially when they break down as often as they do. Will get one for our new truck if that time ever comes.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
You seem to have a lot of things running off of the batteries, especially for batteries that aren't designed to do what you are asking them to do. I'm surprised they last as long as they do considering the amount of abuse they have gone through. I understand not wanting to buy an APU but do you have room to mount a box that you could put some marine batteries in? Possibly where the APU would normally go.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using EO Forums mobile app
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
When I ordered my 2001 Western Star I filled the frame with 3 empty battery boxes. It had that Coranado look to it.

I took it to ICT. They installed a monstrous battery and an auto switch.
When running down the road I charged all 5 batteries.

When parked with the key off, the big battery ran everything in the sleeper. If I were to kill that battery, and I never did, the truck would have full use of the fully charged 4 batteries to start.

Quiet, cheap, maint free. Also had an Espar heater hooked to the big battery.
 

redytrk

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
I noticed my fridge was running all the time. Required charging every 4 hours. As an experiment I turned it off. I shut it down and started using my Engel Freezer (set on fridge setting) Now my inverter never shuts down for low voltage. (12 or 13 hours at least).
By the way your batterys should be separated with an isolator, to prevent your start batts going down.
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
We are still powering the same things the same way that we have for over 3 years. Just trying to figure out why they are running down so quickly.

Sent from my EVO using EO Forums mobile app
 

Refer Hauler

Expert Expediter
"I took it to ICT. They installed a monstrous battery and an auto switch.
When running down the road I charged all 5 batteries. "

This got my attention, would a forklift battery work? They get ran down daily before recharging.
I googgled them they ain't cheap and they ain't light but they are maintenace free, might be a good option
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Keep tuned to this channel.

Turtle will arrive and dispense some of his knowledge.

He may not be right in the Soapbox ( gotcha, shelled-one) but he will be right on this battery stuff.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
There's no way that a voltmeter can truly test the health of the batteries, since a perfectly crappy battery can read 12.88 volts at rest after being fully charged, but drop to below 12 volts when a load is applied. Only way to test them to see if they can hold a charge is to use a battery load tester. Any repair shop will have them, most places that sell batteries will have them to test your batteries. Walmart, Costo, Pep Boys, Autozone can all test them for you. You can buy load testers. The ones under $100 will generally tell you good weak or bad, and the ones in the $200-$400 range will tell you more information about the actual capacity of the batteries.

A load tester removes amps from a battery much like starting an engine would. Some battery companies label their battery with the amp load for testing. This number is usually 1/2 of the CCA rating. So, a 950 CCA battery would load test at 400-500 amps for 15 seconds. A load test can only be performed if the battery is near or at full charge.

You can still use a voltmeter to test them, however. Fully charge the batteries and then do one of two things to remove the surface charge. Either, remove all connections to the batteries for at least 12 hours, 24 is preferred, or the battery must be discharged for several minutes to remove the surface charge (headlamps on high beam for 3 or 4 minutes will do it). Then remove all connections to the batteries, and of course disconnect them from each other. Then test the voltage.

100% charge - 12.7v
75% charge - 12.4v
50% charge - 12.2v
25% charge - 12.0v
DOA charge - 11.9v

I don't know what kind of batteries you have, but being 950 CCA batteries indicate cranking batteries, and being in a truck it suggests Group 31 truck batteries. Group 31 truck batteries of 950 CCA generally have about 110 Ah and 195 minutes RC (Reserve Capacity minutes at a 25 amp draw). Four of them gives you 440 Ah and 780 minutes RC.

780 minutes is 13 hours. But the RC is the number of minutes a fully charged battery at 80 ° F will discharge 25 amps until the battery drops below 10.5 volts, so you won't get anywhere near 13 hours out of them at a 25 amp draw. The inverter (and anything plugged into it) will start screaming or quit working at closer to 11.8 volts.

Truck batteries and marine batteries are the same thing, BTW. The only differences are the types of terminals they have, and the marketing and packaging. But internally they are the same.

There are cranking batteries that should be used for cranking. These generally have CCA as the most prominent specification on the label. These have thin lead plates that are designed to provide a large amount of amps (for cranking) for a few seconds. They are not designed for even low amp draws (1 or 2 amps) for extended periods.

There are deep cycle batteries that should be used for deeper and higher amp draws, and will have the amp hour capacity as the most prominent specification on the label. These have thick lead plates that are designed to provide plenty of amps for extended periods.

Then you have the hybrid batteries that are somewhere in between cranking and deep cycle. These are called truck and marine batteries. Some of them even have "deep cycle" on the labels. They are simply deepER cycle than cranking batteries are. They are designed for the same type of low amp draw that a trolling motor or running lights on a boat requires. This means 5 amps or less for extended periods.

A laptop and lights, or a TV and lights will usually draw at least that much via an inverter. The inverter may be drawing 1 amp all on its own, the light another amp, and the laptop or TV another 3-5. It adds up. Throw in a fridge and you're in serious deep cycle territory. All that will certainly work on four hybrid batteries, but it's a tremendous strain on the batteries, the batteries should be closely monitored with a Battery Monitor to ensure you don't discharge them too deeply and that you full recharge them when you do charge them back up.

One of the worst things you can do to a battery is run it down to the point where things stop working or the inverter starts screaming, and then crank the engine and let it run for 15 or 30 minutes thinking that's enough to recharge the battery. More likely the engine needs to be running 8-12 hours to recharge the batteries. This is also a very common scenario. Discharging too deeply and then not fully recharging the batteries is the reason the saying "Batteries don't die, their owners kill them," is so true.

On a boat you will have one battery (or battery bank) that does nothing but crank the engine and run the boat's electrical system of marker lights. You will have another totally isolated and separate "house bank" of batteries to run everything else. If you run the house bank down, the starting battery bank can sill start the engine. It could mean your life. The concept in an OTR truck or van is no different, where you want a cranking battery that does nothing but service the truck and a house bank that services you. If you combine the cranking and house bank into the same batteries, it might not mean your life in a truck, but it'll certainly mean annoying jump starts and frequent battery replacements.
 
Last edited:

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
Thank you Sir Turtle.:thumbup:

Sent from my EVO using EO Forums mobile app
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
Take a look at ebay in the commercial truck parts section. I purchased a used FL battery box with the cover for like $125 shipping included (the cover costs more than that new).
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
What is a good brand of battery monitor?

Sent from my EVO using EO Forums mobile app
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
Our truck is also equipped with a battery discharge protection system that disables auxiliary circuits if the voltage drops below a preset limit. It used to beep and shut everything except the inverter off. (The inverter is wired directly to the battery bank.) It does not appear to be working. Does anyone know where they hide this in a 2006 Freightliner Columbia with factory sleeper?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
What is a good brand of battery monitor?
Xantrex is arguably the best, but Victron is also good as well as Trimetric. There are others, but it's those three that you will find on boats and in off-the-grid alternative energy applications most often.

The Xantrex LinkLITE is the one you want (IMHO). The LinkPRO monitors two battery banks.

The Victron BMV 600 monitors one bank, the BMV 602 monitors two.

The Trimetric TM-2025-A (and the TM-2025-RV) monitors one bank, and will also monitor the voltage-only of another bank (like the cranking battery). We had a Trimetric on the houseboat.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
At first, I thought you were just pulling names off prescription bottles.

Were you a battery specialist in the military ? Or....?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Naa. It's self-taught mostly. I started learning about batteries when I was a kid and we had a sailboat. Batteries don't die, their owners kill them. Well, when you're out on the ocean and out of sight of land, if you kill your batteries, they'll kill you right back. So, you learn all about the care and feeding of batteries. Since then I've had several boats, and have become a batteryholic of sorts.

The closest I got to the military was auditioning for (and being accepted in) the Navy Band. But I was also offered a 4-year full-ride scholarship at the University of Cincinnati College Conservator of Music (go Bearcats). I didn't much like marching band as it was, so I knew I didn't want anything to do with basic training.
 

RETIDEPXE

Veteran Expediter
Any comments or experience with an ultracapacitor?; Maxwell Technologies Engine Start Modules Ultracapacitors Application Specific Modules

I am strongly considering one of these with the idea that a cheap bank of 1050CCA Group 31's would last so much longer by not having the draw of cranking, aren't the wet cells only good for a finite number of cold cranks?.

My better half takes for granted we are on the grid, even when off, so I keep the EU2000 going and use the 8.3amp charger to keep my 3 group 31's charging while all the 120V items, TV, DVD, micro, blow dryer, window unit etc, (not all at once ofcourse), are plugged to run off the generator when sitting and inverter off. Our truck also has a Norcold DE6000 fridge which just crapped out on us after 6 yrs. Even the generator going tho, I can only get about 24 months out of the 31's.

However, the Maxwell ultracapacitor cost $995, so maybe a bank of 4 AGM's might make more sense. The ultimate would be a Maxwell plus the 4 AGM's, just need a couple extra 1500 mi. loads this year to cover it, hello dispatch!!
 

westmicher

Veteran Expediter
We used to kill our starting battery about once a year, just from the continual drain of our QualComm. Over three or four days of that relatively light load on the starting battery would cause a serious reduction in battery power, often to the point of jump starting. Like Turtle says, even light continual loads on a conventional starting battery murders the battery. We already had 2 group 31 Odyssey AGM batteries isolated for our refrigerator, microwave, TV, etc. and they did a great job. Then I learned the same battery was also a great starting battery! Once I replaced the starting battery with an Odyssey group 31, we never went dead again! NICE! Expensive but very nice! I really prefer no starting issues. :D
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Rather than a Maxwell engine start capacity, a most cost effective way to go is just a separate house bank for the non-truck loads.

Wet cells (and dry cells and AGM/Gel) don't have a finite number of cold cranks, per se, rather, they have a finite number of discharge/charge cycles. The energy is from chemical reactions, and eventually those chemicals break down and can't do it anymore. The lower you drain the battery in between fully charging them, the more cycles they will have.
 
Top