Taking offense at flags

[BobWolf]

You can't just replace the Confederate flag, it's a historical symbol. Many people [myself included] were surprised to learn that it's a symbol of oppression and racism to many other people, but since it is, it shouldn't be flown by the government. Nor should it be banned from private use or display, it falls under freedom of speech. Whether it says "racist" or "rebel" to you, it's your right to say it.

I agree that they should consider not flying it because of how its been and continues to be forever branded.
and its too bad.
Although, the confederate flag and South Carolina capitol issue has been going on for at least 20 years if not longer.

As for replacing the flag I was just being a smart azz.

 

[cheri1122]

20 years, huh? Consider how long they didn't let women vote, lol, until they did.
I bet there's some [guys] who still think it was a mistake.

 

[Turtle]

Because God promised it as a covenant with His people, in the Bible, so it was their symbol first.
That's what I read in a recent article, anyhow. As I don't believe in God, and I never heard anyone claim the rainbow as a Christian symbol [like the fish, which always tempts me to draw legs & feet on it, lol. But I never do, really!] I had no idea the rainbow was copyrighted, like.

Christians had to work overtime on that one to come up with a way to find the Rainbow flag objectionable. Have you ever seen a rainbow? Looks nothing like the Rainbow flag. It's not even the same shape. It's got the same colors as a rainbow, but that's as far as it goes. I promise you, when Gilbert Baker (also known as Busty Ross, drag queen extraordinaire) invented the Rainbow flag, God's promise to His people was the last thing on Baker's mind. He was looking at primary colors, plus hot pink, each to represent something specific, none of which had anything to do with the Bible.

The rainbow bridge connects Midgard and Asgard in Norse mythology (Thor), and the rainbow flag very similar to the Rainbow flag of today was used in the German Peasants War in the 1500s. A nearly identical flag was used as a symbol of peace in Italy in the 1700s. Christians didn't complain about those. Nor did they complain about Apple Computer using a rainbow apple for a logo. It's a classic case of trying really hard to be offended.

The " Rainbow flag" why is it offensive and upsetting?

I don't know that it is, per se. Waving it my face, literally and figuratively, can get pretty damned annoying, though. When the Rainbow Flag is waved in demand for tolerance, while those waiving it yield no tolerance in return, it becomes a display in and of itself of the same hate and intolerance which gays are complaining about. I do love a good irony.

I don't care who you are or what your sexuality is, when you push it in people's faces, it's annoying. If gays want to truly be accepted by society at large, they will have to stop defining themselves by their gayness, and instead concentrate on the content of their character.

As I remind all who quote from,"God's word" it was written by men during a time when women were 1/2 a step above a slave. In fact a wife was traded as property.

Ah, the good ol' days. You're getting me all misty-eyed.

Flags, fish or pink ribbons, isn't all about we live in a country that allows us to be comfortable in who we are as people and to stand together united because that's the prize?

Depends on how annoying people standing there want to be. You know what's annoying about religious people? When they are all in your face about their religion. Not all of them do it, but enough do it that it taints all of them. And those who do it, man are they annoying. But most don't do it. The ones who don't are the ones you can stand there with and be comfortable and be united. You know what's annoying about gay people? When they are all in your face about their gayness. Not all of them do it, but enough do it that it taints all of them. And those who do it, man are they annoying. But most don't do it. The ones who don't are the ones you can stand there with and be comfortable and be united.

See what I'm getting at? If you define yourself by who you are, instead of what you are, you tend not to be annoying. If I tried to preach atheism or agnosticism to my friends who are religious, tried to convert them and their thinking, I'd be really annoying.


In honor of diversity and tolerance, enjoy this musical tribute, performed by two gay white men (the two are known as Superfruit on their YouTube channel) from Arlington, TX, and straight Catholic Latina female also from Arlington, one Jewish straight man from California, and an extremely religious Seventh Day Adventist straight black man who is also a beat-boxing cello player from Owensboro, KY who graduated from Yale and speaks fluent Mandarin (because when you think Chinese speaking black man who plays cello and does beat boxing, you think rural Kentucky). They define themselves by the content of their character and by their music, and they are best friends, who have won a Grammy for their defining characteristics. Definitely want headphones or speakers to hear the base.

 

[Worn Out Manager]

Turtle - you are the spokesperson for insightfulness! Not sure if that's a real word?

Interesting to know the demographics of expediters on this forum. More men, less religious, more tolerant (?), older.

 

[quadflyer1]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10204401107249983&id=1299801677&ref=fbwaexpcopy

 

[cheri1122]

Music can create the strangest partnerships ever, lol. Back in the days when I was ripping and burning CDs for the road, one of my favorites was 'oddfellow duets', like Brian Setzer [of the Stray Cats, a rockabilly band] and Ann Margaret.
It really is our one common language.

 

[cheri1122]

Ah, the good ol' days. You're getting me all misty-eyed.




an extremely religious Seventh Day Adventist straight black man who is also a beat-boxing cello player from Owensboro, KY who graduated from Yale and speaks fluent Mandarin (because when you think Chinese speaking black man who plays cello and does beat boxing, you think rural Kentucky).

I wouldn't have thought 'rural Kentucky', about a Chinese speaking black man who plays cello and does beat boxing, but add intellectual? Dead giveaway, lol.
PS Heard this medley last week, it's awesome!

 

[Tennesseahawk]

As I remind all who quote from,"God's word" it was written by men during a time when women were 1/2 a step above a slave. In fact a wife was traded as property. So as far as I'm cocerned they were at the same level or lower due to limited physical abilities.
And really, the rainbow flag is copyrighted? Shows how much I march with it.
Flags, fish or pink ribbons, isn't all about we live in a country that allows us to be comfortable in who we are as people and to stand together united because that's the prize?

But that's the point... too many people aren't comfortable in who they are, or else they wouldn't be trying to change everything/everyone else.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

You can't just replace the Confederate flag, it's a historical symbol. Many people [myself included] were surprised to learn that it's a symbol of oppression and racism to many other people, but since it is, it shouldn't be flown by the government. Nor should it be banned from private use or display, it falls under freedom of speech. Whether it says "racist" or "rebel" to you, it's your right to say it.

Here's a thought... why don't the ones offended change, rather than everyone else?

 

[cheri1122]

Here's a thought... why don't the ones offended change, rather than everyone else?

Because that would lead to porn on prime time tv - not a good idea, IMO.

 

[cheri1122]

But that's the point... too many people aren't comfortable in who they are, or else they wouldn't be trying to change everything/everyone else.

It's not about being comfortable in who they are, it's about being uncomfortable in who others are, and that's what led to the end of slavery, and whole lot of other indefensible practices and beliefs. Like public hangings. And the Women's Christian Temperance League, too.

 

[Turtle]

South Carolina's House voted to take the flag down.

Good. It's ridiculous enough to fly a defeated flag. It's just absurd to fly it as a symbol of pride.

 

[aristotle]

South Carolina's House voted to take the flag down.

Good. It's ridiculous enough to fly a defeated flag. It's just absurd to fly it as a symbol of pride.

I suspect it has been flown as a symbol of defiance to the federal government in many, many cases. Resentment of the federal government runs pretty strong in the South.

 

[aquitted]

 

[cheri1122]

I suspect it has been flown as a symbol of defiance to the federal government in many, many cases. Resentment of the federal government runs pretty strong in the South.

Why is that, in your opinion?

 

[Turtle]

Why is that, in your opinion?

That's an easy one. The South doesn't like the federal government, the northern federal government in particular, who doesn't know what the South is or what the Southern culture is, coming in and telling us how to live, coming in and imposing their version of society on us. The South doesn't like the government, the northern government in particular, coming in and saying, "This is how we live and think, therefore you will have to live and think the same way." You know, kind of like how the government does in places like Iraq, Panama, Iran, North Borneo.

It's far more than just the South wanting to be left alone to keep slaves, or to keep black kids out of white schools, too, although that's one of the reasons for the lingering animosity. It's a cultural and moral relativism thing. Philosopher Johann Gottfried von Herder (1744–1803) despised the cold rationalism of the Enlightenment and would also despise the cultural and moral superior positions many people have today where they impose their morality and culture onto others. We as a nation do it all over the world, because we're smug and full of ourselves, and the north does it to he South for the same reasons. Von Herder was big on the idea that cultures are so different from one another that we should not be picking out what is wrong with them. After all, he argued, no one “became man by himself alone.” And he's right. Just because something is culturally different doesn't make it wrong. It doesn't make it right, either so the culture the north is trying to impose might not be the right one at all. In fact, we should not be chronological snobs (as C.S. Lewis put it), either, acting as though we are so much better than our ancestors. It is simply unfair to judge our forebears since our descendants will similarly judge us. It's fruitless and wasteful to view the past through the lens of today's morality and culture.

 

[aristotle]

Reportedly, the city council in Memphis, TN has voted unanimously to exhume the bodies of Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest and his wife and move them elsewhere. Why stop there? The District of Columbia might choose to exhume George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and many others in a show of solidarity. Dig 'em up. Grind their bones into powder and bury them at sea with Osama Bin Laden. The racial hatred hysteria sweeping through parts of the US can trace its origins to noon EST on January 20th 2009.

 

[LDB]

The state of Tennessee legislature passed the heritage protection act in 2013. Exhuming General Forrest would likely violate that law. It's all possibly a smokescreen anyway to cover for the true reason. There's talk about an expansion of the University of Tennessee which would use the land the General currently occupies. It's a $500M project. There are certainly politicians lined up to steal their portion I'm sure.

 

[Turtle]

The Nathan B. Forrest tomb, and statue which sits above it, have long been a bone of contention in Memphis for most of the city's population. It's in Health Sciences Park, which until 2013 was named Forrest Park after the very General himself. He was originally buried in a cemetery elsewhere in town, but was moved to the park in the early 1900s as the KKK gained momentum and became all that and a bag o' chips in Memphis. They dedicated the memorial and the statue of him as a great big FU to the blacks of greater Memphis. Forrest was, of course the first Grand Wizard and then the Grand Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan, an organization which he also by the way founded. He is probably most famous for his brutality during the Civil War, particularly that of the Fort Pillow Massacre in Henning, TN (birthplace of author Alex Haley, incidentally) where he and his men murdered between 350 and 500 Union soldiers and local civilians, almost all of them black, almost all of them as they were trying to surrender or after they had surrendered. The Nathan B. Forrest monument isn't a monument to Nathan B. Forrest, it's a monument to white supremacy and a warning to blacks that acts as a reminder that they were once property, so watch your step.

The nonsense of renaming schools that are named after Confederate leaders, and destroying all monuments to them, as well as disavowing people who owned slaves, is just silly beyond reason. Most of these aren't monuments to slavery or racism or hate, but to honor Americans who fought for something they believed in. Even though they lost, there's no reason to try and erase them from history. You can't look at the past through the lenses of the present. But of course, all monuments (especially statues and the like) aren't solely or even mostly about the past, they're about the present time in which they were created.

Incidentally, there's also a large statue of Nathan B. Forrest in Nashville (Brentwood on the south side), right off I-65. You can't miss it.

The statue was sculpted, the layout of the flags, the whole deal, was designed by Jack Kershaw, the lawyer of James Earl Ray (the guy who assassinated Martin Luther King, Jr). The monument sits on private land owned by well-known Nashville businessman Bill Dorris. Kershaw justified the memorial at its unveiling in 1998 by saying, "Somebody needs to say a good word for slavery."

The Nashville City Council can't remove the monument from private land, so they are in the process of putting in trees and maybe a wall so that it can't be seen from the Interstate.

There's also a large bust of Nathan B. Forrest inside the State Capitol building in Nashville. There's going to be a problem getting rid of the bust, and the statue in Memphis, thanks to the Tennessee Heritage Protection Act (which is just as racist as it sounds, and was enacted into law in 2013) which prohibits "cities or counties from changing the names of parks, streets, monuments or just about anything memorializing nearly any war or military conflict in human history."

 

[skyraider]

Remember now, you take down a flag, then they(the feds), take down your freedom of speech. Then they(the feds) allow Muslims the right to block sidewalk traffic for prayers, but slap the crap out of a one room school house with some lawsuit because a kid brought a Bible to school, but the kid with a Koran is given accolades of praise ...

Then if someone objects to the above, they are called racist, go on trial, lose their job, put on foxnews, 3 talkshows and everyone makes a few million off of them,,,,and you wonder why we are sinking from within...great, just great.