Some wish to destroy

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
For every wonderful story there is at least one other that requires us to stay alert. There are still many in this world who would rather destroy rather than mend. Evil is always with us, we must remain vigilant to that fact and confront that evil where ever it appears.




WASHINGTON – A Northwest Airlines passenger landing in Detroit on Friday tried to blow up the flight but the explosive device failed, two U.S. national security officials said.


The passenger, who was traveling on Northwest Airlines Flight 253 from Amsterdam, was not identified. He was being questioned Friday evening, according to one of the officials, both of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was continuing.


The motive of the Christmas Day attack was not immediately clear.


"He appears to have had some kind of incendiary device he tried to ignite," said one of the U.S. officials.
Authorities initially believed the passenger had set off firecrackers that caused some minor injuries.


Delta Air Lines spokeswoman Susan Elliott said the passenger was subdued immediately. She had no details on the injuries. Delta and Northwest have merged.


One passenger from the flight was taken to the University of Michigan Medical Center in Ann Arbor, hospital spokeswoman Tracy Justice said. She didn't know the person's condition, or whether the person was a man or woman. She referred all inquiries to the FBI.


An FBI spokeswoman in Detroit said the incident is being investigated. It came just as the flight, an Airbus 330 carrying 278 passengers, was arriving in Detroit from Amsterdam.
Passenger Syed Jafri, a U.S. citizen who had flown from the United Arab Emirates, said the incident occurred during the plane's descent. Jafri said he was seated three rows behind the passenger and said he saw a glow, and noticed a smoke smell. Then, he said, "a young man behind me jumped on him."
"Next thing you know, there was a lot of panic," he said.
Rich Griffith, a passenger from Pontiac, said he was seated too far in the back to see what had happened. But he said he didn't mind being detained on the plane for several hours. "It's frustrating if you don't want to keep your country safe," he said. "We can't have what's going on everywhere else happening here."


President Barack Obama was notified of the incident and discussed it with security officials, the White House said. It said he is monitoring the situation and receiving regular updates from his vacation spot in Hawaii.


J.P. Karas, 55, of Wyandotte, Mich., said he was driving down a road near the airport and saw a Delta jet at the end of the runway, surrounded by police cars, an ambulance, a bus and some TV trucks.


"I don't ever recall seeing a plane on that runway ever before and I pass by there frequently," he said.
Karas said it was difficult to tell what was going on, but it looked like the front wheel was off the runway.


The Homeland Security Department said passengers may see additional screening measures on domestic and international flights because of the incident.


"We encourage those with future travel plans to stay in touch with their airline and to visit http://www.tsa.gov for updates," the department said.


Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has been briefed on the incident and is closely monitoring the situation.
The department encouraged travelers to be observant and aware of their surroundings and report any suspicious behavior to law enforcement officials.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
An Al Qaeda terrorist who should be executed no later than Monday but preferrably today. Once dead he should be coated with swine blood and buried face down with swine entrails on his back. That's what all of them should get, not all expense paid trips to NYC. If we didn't have sleepers in positions of power perhaps these atrocities would be less common.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We let our guard down, again. We, being, a good people, think that once the threat is stopped it is over. One good thing is this man who would murder women and children was badly burned by his own device but will live to face justice. If there is still anyone that does not believe that we are at war and that this war is not affecting the entire world, please let this near miss wake you up.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Wait a minute everyone.

This is the problem of the TSA and their screening process overseas and the lack of profiling. The Israelis have warned us a lot about the prossiblity of something like this because we are not doing enough of the right stuff so not to offend anyone. How is it that this guy can get past security but we can't have bottled water or tooth paste with us?

The flight originated in Nigeria, then Amsterdam and then here.

The flight marshal did not do the work of stopping the guy, I have yet to hear if there was one there but a passenger was the one who stopped the guy and he is the one in the hospital with burns to his arms and hands.

The DHS Czar, and the inept president are both monitoring things, maybe the president should have taken his fifth vacation but stayed at home.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Reports have him being watched starting 4 weeks ago but not yet on a watch list. Obama is sleeping. His weakening of our nation is already starting to show not even one year in. Just wait, there will be much more to come unless he grows up quickly and faces life as it really is.
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well I have said that we will be attacked again and like any good military organization preparing for a battle, these terrorists are testing out what intel they have to see what holes we have and an attack may pretty much be a given under Obama's watch.

I remember somewhere about how this is done in stages, first it is little things - picture taking and B&Es and then it is flagrant violations of security measures and then this type of testing to see reaction times and how we deal with it. Some of the 'break ups' of plans to blow up a building or to kill people may be only setups to gather intel in the long run and never were anything but a setup.

I honestly think the arrogance of the administration has them all thinking that because he has been accepted on the world stage and with this rock star image that his handlers and he have setup, it is a simple case that they think the terrorists won't attack the country until he is out of office in 2012 or 2026.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
We could easily have been in a state of national mourning tonight, if not for the quick action of passengers aboard the plane. That the failed terrorist was taken alive will yield a lot of leads and information. One year ago, this Nigerian might be enroute to a waterboarding party. As things are now, he will be given a good lawyer and a public forum to air his grievances. What a difference one year makes.

I suspect Obama will make his usual plea for understanding. What's to understand? They mean to kill us.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Let our guard down? When was it ever up?

All this "feel good" security to appease the general public is just baloney!!

If someone wants to do something, there is nothing we can do about it....:eek:

There's no failure here...just reality check.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes OVM, we have let our guard down. I am not speaking of direct airport security but our intell efforts. It will never be possible to stop every attack like this to be sure. The problem is that Obama has spent his first year weakening our military and intell services. He has no clue. He is much like Clinton and Carter in that respect. Our Government should stick with their job as defined by the Constitution and start defending this Nation from a very real and determined enemy, instead of fooling around with things like health care and the rest of the socialist agenda. Do your required job and forget the rest.
 

hondaking38

Veteran Expediter
Gen Pershing cured the problem...and if we did like Leo suggested,maybe that would cure it for another 50 years...Pigs blood is the answer..
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Now you are going deep on me...
but lets remember we ARE at war...and an attack should not shock people..it should be expected.
War is not a one sided affair.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It would help, for sure. Grease our bullet with bacon grease and be sure that the enemy is aware of it. We need fight this war as our enemy is, they are out to win it. We are just playing. Pull out all the stops and let the best trained military in the world, our's, finish this thing off. Our military has only one purpose that is to break things and kill people in the defense of our Nation. Sorry if that offends some of you but that is how it is. Let 'em fight!! Let 'em end it, and then, all the "kumiba" singers can handle the "love in" after the war is over.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
It would help, for sure. Grease our bullet with bacon grease and be sure that the enemy is aware of it. We need fight this war as our enemy is, they are out to win it. We are just playing. Pull out all the stops and let the best trained military in the world, our's, finish this thing off. Our military has only one purpose that is to break things and kill people in the defense of our Nation. Sorry if that offends some of you but that is how it is. Let 'em fight!! Let 'em end it, and then, all the "kumiba" singers can handle the "love in" after the war is over.


No argument from me on that point Joe...

If we are having a war lets have a war instead of all this ***** footin around!!
BTW.. Remember they brought in Canadian sniper instructors at the beginning of this to make that ONE and A HALF mile shot!:D
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
No virgins = fewer martyrs. Worldwide responders should be carrying pig blood with them and as soon as they find a suicide bomber's remains smear some on a few of the pieces. That would end the virgin fantasy. There should be selective assassination of the leaders promoting and/or enabling terrorism and jihad. Keep Gitmo open and get more waterboarding specialists in there. The amount of waterboarding already done should look like a small practice session. They think we're the great satan so we should make Gitmo absolute hell. Between torture and pig blood we should make ourselves too hellish to mess with. You threaten our nation you are dead or you wish you were. That should be the only policy. Not everyone will agree but there have to be some people who are wrong.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We have a very good sniper corp, OVM. They use several weapons. From specialized 5.56cal all the way up to the .50cal Barret rifle, which is capable of accurate fire out to 5 miles and beyond!! That round does a number on engine blocks!!!
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
CBS News is reporting the terrorist aboard Delta Flight 253 attempted to detonate a highly explosive substance known as PETN. Through some fortunate error or divine intervention, the device failed to explode as planned. CNN is running a loop emphasizing the terrorist was acting alone and this was an isolated incident per the Obama administration.

Now, Fox news reports a Lufthansa flight bound for the United States was just diverted to Iceland. Go with EL AL.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
We let our guard down, again.
We have been letting our guard down going back over a number of administrations (as well as doing things that actively create the problem) - and it certainly isn't confined to one political party or another.

Further, much of what we are doing - both from a foreign policy and military standpoint - is provoking and exacerbating the problem - without delivering any real tactical or strategic advantage.

This doesn't mean that we shouldn't be responding militarily (we definitely should) - just that some (most, actually) of the response - and in some instances, lack of any response whatsoever - is actually playing right into the hands of al-Qeada. (In terms of both Afghanistan and Iraq, Bin Laden couldn't have asked for more if we had handed it to him on a silver platter)

Alot of it has to with an outdated Cold War mentality, which is applicable to nation states, but not so much to transnational actors - specifically transnational actors which are attempting to radicalize an entire religion - one which has roughly 1.57 billion adherents.

Given that that religion constitutes a fairly significant portion of the world's population (about 23% or 24%), while we, as a nation, only constitute between 4% and 5%, it ought to plainly evident to anyone that it is not in our best interest to be doing stuff that further enables Bin-Laden to accomplish what he is seeking to do - he's got a way bigger pool to draw from than we do.

We, being, a good people ...
We - like all peoples - have among us both good and bad.

To believe otherwise is clearly delusional.

If there is still anyone that does not believe that we are at war
Oh, we are certainly at war ..... although at times one would never know it.

and that this war is not affecting the entire world, please let this near miss wake you up.
Yeah ..... it does effect the entire world ..... but to a far less degree than it does us - we are the ones with the big bullseye on our backs. Further, the extent to which it affects other nations is largely under their control (as it is under ours)

The extent to which other nations are targetted is primarily dependent on how interventionist their own foreign policy is in the Islamic World, and to what extent they support us - particularly to what extent they support us militarily, in what are considered to be Muslim lands.

Stop and think about that one for a minute - this should immediately tell anyone several things, if one bothers to really consider the matter:

1. The more any non-Islamic nation supports us, in our interfering the Muslim world, the more of a target they will become.

2. Therefore, it is not in their best interests to support us overtly - particularly militarily, in terms of armed action in Muslim nations (although they may be able to get away with covert, hidden support, that isn't readily evident)

3. Given no. 1 and no. 2, one can expect that as time progresses into the future that little real help will be forthcoming from those quarters. Indeed, expect it to become less and less as time goes on. In fact, it is in their own self-interest to do those things which ensure that we remain the primary target.

If all three points above are true (and they are) then one ought to recognize that traditional "coalition building" and reliance on international forums (such as the UN) will be of little real use in defending our nation, and indeed may actually be a hinderance to doing so. This has already proved to be true repeatedly - in both the cases of Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as other instances.

It's an argument that largely will not sell, no matter what lip service "our partners" give it for political PR reasons.

And oh yeah ......... the pigs blood and bacon grease ?

Yup .... that will really have them shakin' in their dishdashah's (but not from fear ...)

I'll bet ya that Bin Laden is just praying for that one ........ I rather doubt that one could make up a better recruitment tool .....
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Out dated Cold War (what ever that is) mentality? You mean that you don't believe that the United States should be a free and soverign nation?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"And oh yeah ......... the pigs blood and bacon grease ?

Yup .... that will really have them shakin' in their dishdashah's (but not from fear ...)

I'll bet ya that Bin Laden is just praying for that one ........ I rather doubt that one could make up a better recruitment tool"


Sorry, but you are wrong on this as well. This tactic is being used by our "physc ops" teams for quite sometime. It has been very effective in curbing insurgent activity in areas where it is used. It is being expanded. I got that little tidbit of information from a "physc ops" officer that used this in a combat region to get success.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Out dated Cold War (what ever that is) mentality? You mean that you don't believe that the United States should be a free and soverign nation?
Not at all - what I mean is that fighting the Soviet Union (which was a nation state) is not necessarily entirely the same as fighting a transnational actor (such as al-Qaeda)

Strategies and tactics which may have worked well and been successful in one instance, may not even be applicable in another, vastly different one.

I would think that premise would be readily apparent .. even to the average man on the street ......
 
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