???? Panther Owner starts a Lease to Own program ???

flatbedjones · Sep 21, 2009

Wasnt one of the very first things we all learned about trucking is never ever lease to own a vehicle from the folks pulling the strings ?
I find it amazing that a post down at the bottom even exist. Who in the world could be that naive and foolish enough to even think about entering into such an agreement ? I know times are tough and all but this is a loose/loose deal anyway you look at it. Has CR England opened up a straight truck sales joint in Ohio under a new name ?

Dreamer · Sep 22, 2009

Just to clarify, this is a Panther Fleet Owner who is starting a Lease to Own program.. not the owner of Panther.

Many Fleet Owners have made lease to own agreements... .. Dave just advised of another one starting to do it.

Dale

arkjarhead · Sep 22, 2009

What gets me about most of the lease purchase deals are they require a large payment(IMO) every month on a used vehicle, plus they take part of the pay sometimes 10%-20%. If you do the math and add the payment plus the pay the owner gets they are still getting almost the same 40% cut as they would if they put a driver in it, but now it's pure profit. Save your money and get your own ride.

Dreamer · Sep 22, 2009

That is often true Joe, but it is also an option for those who can't get financed another way. I have known of a few it worked out well for, but one must tread carefully.

Dale

OntarioVanMan · Sep 22, 2009

In the taxi biz we called it the Never,Never Plan..
A 7 year plan to buy a taxi plate that almost no one survived the 7 years...defaulted....then owner finds another sucker....very,very few ever made the 7 years...

arrbsthw · Sep 22, 2009

That's a pretty good name OVM..and it is very accurate to boot!

OntarioVanMan · Sep 22, 2009

arrbsthw said:
That's a pretty good name OVM..and it is very accurate to boot!

The way things are to-day in this biz..if one has to rely on another and can not stand on their own they should really, really think long and hard and maybe look elsewhere....The liability/risk is way out of proportion..

piper1 · Sep 22, 2009

The never never plan is right. Listen to those adds by one of the BIG truckload carriers that "put you in a truck, no credit check" etc etc. What they are doing is mostly, leasing you a used truck that they have (and likely paid a lot more money for 2 years ago) and are off loading that financial risk off of their balance sheet and on to your shoulders. In return, they get an O/O who has to run hard just to make his payments, and will likely be a bit more co-operative because he can't afford to **** of the company as he owes them money all the time.

I have seen these plans even with companies offering new trucks. They buy the truck cheaper than the O/O ever could, lease it to him based on what he would have paid for it (profit maker number 1) and give him a lease rate that is likely higher than he would have gotten (if he had good credit) or most certainly a lease rate higher than what the credit might be costing the company (profit maker number 2). Usually, the company also offers "competitively priced" shop services that are "convenient" for you since you are at the terminal anyways (profit maker number 3) that because they bought the truck in the first place, will likely submit the repairs as a warranty claim that they will get paid for because they are a big customer as opposed to the chances the O/O would have on his own (profit maker number 4).

None of this is rocket science, sometimes it is the only way people can enter the biz, for others, it represents a "simple" way to get a new truck. Nothing wrong with it but you pay for it.

charlee · Sep 22, 2009

Wow,

All this negativity about lease purchase. Believe it or not there ARE very good lease purchase plans in the industry in regards to trucks.

I have told the story before of how we got our first truck.

Brand new 2005 freightliner columbia with a 750,000 mile warranty

1600$ a month for 36 months.....30,000 buyout end of lease or return truck

the 1600$ included the 2290 taxes every year

zero money down

Great deal for a first truck

Lease purchase from Covenant Transport.

The truck never ran a single load for covenant

There was a clause in the lease agreement that if you gave them a 10,000 deposit you could take truck anywhere you liked.

The deposit was applied towards the residual at end of lease.

Worked well for us.

Knowing the person and the trucks in question.....I am sure they will have no lack of applicants.

I cannot tell you how many calls we received from people asking us to do the same thing for them......we said no because we were done with expediting.....

-charlee

OntarioVanMan · Sep 22, 2009

charlee said:
Wow,

All this negativity about lease purchase. Believe it or not there ARE very good lease purchase plans in the industry in regards to trucks.

I have told the story before of how we got our first truck.

Brand new 2005 freightliner columbia with a 750,000 mile warranty

1600$ a month for 36 months.....30,000 buyout end of lease or return truck

the 1600$ included the 2290 taxes every year

zero money down

Great deal for a first truck

Lease purchase from Covenant Transport.

The truck never ran a single load for covenant

There was a clause in the lease agreement that if you gave them a 10,000 deposit you could take truck anywhere you liked.

The deposit was applied towards the residual at end of lease.

Worked well for us.

Knowing the person and the trucks in question.....I am sure they will have no lack of applicants.

I cannot tell you how many calls we received from people asking us to do the same thing for them......we said no because we were done with expediting.....

-charlee

I am glad it worked out for you...and I am quite sure there are some good truck owners,But the negativity still stands IMO

piper1 · Sep 22, 2009

Its more of a buyer beware thing. Your deal was good, but you also had 10 thousand cash to deposit with them to break some of the chains. They obviously got one heck of a deal on those trucks too. The truck cost you $87,600. Even if they charged you very little interest they must have got those trucks for less than $80k, that's one heck of a good fleet deal for a bunk tractor and a 750,000 mile warranty...on everything? I went looking for the post to find out about the deal but couldn't find it.

Moot · Sep 22, 2009

charlee said:
Wow,

Lease purchase from Covenant Transport.

The truck never ran a single load for covenant

There was a clause in the lease agreement that if you gave them a 10,000 deposit you could take truck anywhere you liked.

-charlee

That's the key. You were not tied to the carrier who provided the financing and truck.

OntarioVanMan · Sep 22, 2009

Moot said:
That's the key. You were not tied to the carrier who provided the financing and truck.

And as Piper noted..the $10,000 down also helped greatly.
Some come into this business not even wearing underwear! Let alone any cash...

Bruno · Sep 23, 2009

Well, now let me jump in here on this. The owner that has the lease to own program is not getting an extra 10% of what the truck makes.

If he sells a truck for $32,000 the payments will be ones to the drivers liking. It all depends on how long the terms will be. Lets say the driver buys this truck im talking about. To do this on a lease to own program for two years, which is a 104 weekly payments. The weekly payments would be $288.47 for 104 weeks with $2000.00 down and $1000.00 buy out on the lease. No 10% extra to the owner. The owner will take out so much each week that will go into account for repairs if they are needed. Once the truck is paid for you get that money back. This owner isn't trying to rip people off out of THEIR money because he is the one taking the risk.

I think this is a very good program. He is even willing to work with people on their down payments.

OntarioVanMan · Sep 23, 2009

Bruno said:
Well, now let me jump in here on this. The owner that has the lease to own program is not getting an extra 10% of what the truck makes.

If he sells a truck for $32,000 the payments will be ones to the drivers liking. It all depends on how long the terms will be. Lets say the driver buys this truck im talking about. To do this on a lease to own program for two years, which is a 104 weekly payments. The weekly payments would be $288.47 for 104 weeks with $2000.00 down and $1000.00 buy out on the lease. No 10% extra to the owner. The owner will take out so much each week that will go into account for repairs if they are needed. Once the truck is paid for you get that money back. This owner isn't trying to rip people off out of THEIR money because he is the one taking the risk.

I think this is a very good program. He is even willing to work with people on their down payments.

So this isn't really a true lease to own program where most are scams...

It seems more of a case of an owner doing the financing and holding title till its paid off....

davekc · Sep 23, 2009

I believe we are talking apples and oranges in this thread.
The reality
Most people aren't walking in the door with a 10k deposit. There is a over payment on the initial base cost to subsidize a walkaway clause. That isn't provided for free on a new truck.
Same principle on a trac lease, although those are used for strategical tax purposes by some fleets.
On a used truck, the dimensions change. If one lease purchases say a truck for 32k, who pays for the repairs? If the lessee is paying them, that person may have to have 10k behind them in case of a major repair. Likely isn't a warranty on a 32k truck.
Just for example.
Say you blow a turbo or any other part while under load. You are looking at a tow to the consignee, then to the repair place, plus the repair, plus hotel and down time. That could easily flip into a 6 to 7k week in the red real quick.
A weekly maintenance fee will fall way short of this type expense.
Never ASSUME something. This scenario could be played over even in a accident whether it is your fault or not. You won't see a penny for a major contested payout for a year or longer.
A lot of expediter casualties over the years in some of these older threads.
Don't come into this under-capitalized. Even more so in a turbulent economy. LM's poll today gives you a quick snap shot of a year in review of the folks that left.
As far as risk, well......it depends on what the truck was bought at, and what it is being sold at.
"If it look too good............"
Just a thought to ponder.

Desperado · Sep 24, 2009

ok my lease 241 aweek/ owner .05 .1 per mile acording rate for mile/ i pay all repairs insurance qc / truck 23 k 06 int/3k down/walk away/ good deal i think so /priced trucks same milage were about 40 to 50 k

Bruno · Sep 24, 2009

If someone wants to lease to own a truck then they need to check out what the lease is about. If you buy a used truck they want 10% or more down on the cost of the truck. Then you may pay up to 21% to the bank. Integrity Motor Freight wants to make it easy for people to own a truck and make a little bit of money in return.

Most of the trucks up for lease look like the truck in this picture or nicer. That Truck is a 2001 Fl 80. If a truck is bought to sell by Integrity Motor Freight it goes to a shop and gets new brakes, Tires batterys, engine check over and painted if needed. He didn't name his company Integrity Motor Freight because he wants to screw the little guy out of money. If any Panther driver wants to know more about the owner they can call Adam Walters at Panther.