New HOS Rules are out

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Listening to the call in shows with drivers complaining about EOBR's and stating over and over again that they run illegal.

Listening and watching drivers who want more miles... Everything is about the miles and not about the pay per mile

Listening to why drivers need to be on the phone while driving one big one that hits me is running their business while on the phone. Seems like a big distraction to me.

Most of the arguments that I hear validate why the government needs to regulate us more.

You can include yourself in that group if you wish when you say "we" are our own worst enemies, but do not include me.

I am not my own worst enemy and do not do the things you mentioned above (except complain about EOBRs; because adding one to our truck is not in Diane's and my best interests and doing so will do nothing, absolutely nothing, to improve Diane's and my already-perfect compliance and CSA scores).

It is just plain depressing, Linda, to see you lump all drivers into the same group and then say the government needs to regulate "us." more. While such comments may endear you to the bureaucrats and other authority figures, they do not sit well with me.

The government needs to regulate me more? Poppy****!

If you want to reform the industry and cure the ills you mentioned above, regulate the carriers. Force them to train drivers for six months before putting them on the road. As other professions do, require continuing education classes every so often for experienced drivers. That will prompt carriers to raise prices such that shippers will pay enough money to draw large numbers of quality people (who know better than to lie, cheat and boast) into the truck driving profession and the drivers the carriers train will be seen as assets worth retaining. It will put better trained drivers on the road and thereby improve public safety.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Since your compliance is perfect wouldn't an EOBR be a nice proof of compliance in the event of an accident in the future ?
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I am shocked by the comment that we need even more regulations. You have got to be kidding me.
We are regulated to death now.
Based on current statistics, there is nothing in the new regulations that will accomplish anything other than raise operating costs.
We sent several letters with regards to the split sleeper rule. I doubt they were even read. Drivers wanted the clock stopped when they took a break. The 30 minute break does nothing. 34 hour rule is a joke, and I have yet to read or meet anyone who requested these things.
These regulations are driven by a totally different agenda, and it has nothing to do with what is on a talk show or anything else.
 

Wolfeman68

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Listening to the call in shows with drivers complaining about EOBR's and stating over and over again that they run illegal.

Generally, the only ones that would call in are the ones that will be affected the most, or the ones that are running illegal. I wouldn't tag that as an overview of the industry.

Listening and watching drivers who want more miles... Everything is about the miles and not about the pay per mile

If you are paid by the mile, of course you want more miles. More miles, more money. Less miles, less money.

Listening to why drivers need to be on the phone while driving one big one that hits me is running their business while on the phone. Seems like a big distraction to me.

The phone is a business tool. Like any other tool, if used improperly it can cause problems. That said, I have run my business from my truck for 5 years now. If I can't deal with the problem with one call, I park and make the calls necessary then continue on. The phone is not the problem, it's the judgment made on how it's used.

Most of the arguments that I hear validate why the government needs to regulate us more.

The government is not regulating us. The government caved to the special interest groups and whoever had the biggest checkbook. The corrupt politicians in Washington are nothing but mere puppets whose strings are pulled by their masters with the money. As to regulating us more, what if they came out and said it was a distraction for you to talk to Linda while you were driving and made it illegal to do so. What would you do?? When do we say "Enough is enough"

I commented on the website during the comment stage, and from what I saw and read elsewhere, the majority suggested that the HOS be left as it is because it is working. The other suggestion made by the majority was to address the delays we suffer at the hands of shippers and consignees. So in my opinion, the majority did not get what they wanted.

These changes aren't positive ones. That's what happens when rules are changed by those who never played the game.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Just to reiterate. If they had the industry's interest in mind with regards to safety, they would have addressed detention time, training, loading and unloading issues and a host of other items for the truckload folks. Hardly got mentioned. What gets mentioned and installed are items that they can collect revenue from. Some people need to wake up.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
You can include yourself in that group if you wish when you say "we" are our own worst enemies, but do not include me.

I am not my own worst enemy and do not do the things you mentioned above (except complain about EOBRs; because adding one to our truck is not in Diane's and my best interests and doing so will do nothing, absolutely nothing, to improve Diane's and my already-perfect compliance and CSA scores).

It is just plain depressing, Linda, to see you lump all drivers into the same group and then say the government needs to regulate "us." more. While such comments may endear you to the bureaucrats and other authority figures, they do not sit well with me.

The government needs to regulate me more? Poppy****!

If you want to reform the industry and cure the ills you mentioned above, regulate the carriers. Force them to train drivers for six months before putting them on the road. As other professions do, require continuing education classes every so often for experienced drivers. That will prompt carriers to raise prices such that shippers will pay enough money to draw large numbers of quality people (who know better than to lie, cheat and boast) into the truck driving profession and the drivers the carriers train will be seen as assets worth retaining. It will put better trained drivers on the road and thereby improve public safety.

I used the term "we" very loosely and did not make special consideration for the perfect drivers.

Regulate the trucking industry more? The last thing we need is more regulation which is why it depressed me to hear drivers call in making a case for the government.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
wolfeman68 You are right more miles more money and what is wrong with more money less miles? Instead of asking for more work lets ask for better pay.

Dave how do you want the government to control the shippers if not through us? More regulations and control on businesses? Right now the government can control us they do not control shippers and receivers, that will take more regulations.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
If I had my way, it would be less regulations all around. As more get piled on, it feeds the system to keep adding new ones.
It is all about the money.
If they went back to what was in place ten years ago, I am guessing we would be essentially in the same place.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Doesn't the EOBR help us get to the Less Miles -More Money solution. When the carrier down the street realizes his solo's can't run 5000 miles per week he'll have to raise his rates to be profitable at less productivity.False logging is so much more of a problem outside out segment. I watched for years as people would work 6-8 hours loading, log 15 minutes, and take off on the run.
 

Wolfeman68

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
wolfeman68 You are right more miles more money and what is wrong with more money less miles? Instead of asking for more work lets ask for better pay.

Nothing wrong with it, but it's a shipper's market. They usually go with the lowest bid for general freight. As long as there are those who accept cheap freight, the problem will continue.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Since your compliance is perfect wouldn't an EOBR be a nice proof of compliance in the event of an accident in the future ?

No. My driving record, CSA score, and log book would prove everything I would need to prove whatever needed to be proved in the event of an accident, as would information from the truck's ECM which is already there at no additional cost to me. The EOBR would be an additional expense that provides no meaningful benefit.

I know there are many drivers out there who love the EOBRs for their convenience. I have used both paper logs and an EOBR with a prior carrier. I find it no trouble at all to draw lines in a log book, do simple arithmetic and keep the log book current.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Nothing wrong with it, but it's a shipper's market. They usually go with the lowest bid for general freight. As long as there are those who accept cheap freight, the problem will continue.

It is a shipper's market until a driver shortage develops. But when will it develop? By putting EOBRs in trucks, carriers can replace driver skills (log keeping, time management, routing, fuel decisions, etc.) with in-truck baby monitors and intense supervision from dispatch and other entities at carrier HQ.

EOBRs turn drivers into robots. The closer a driver is to a robot, the less trained and less paid he or she needs to be. The fewer skills you require of a driver, the greater the hiring pool becomes because the dregs of society become more available to you.

Every new hire with no experience has a perfect CSA record starting out. You can run one for a few months and fire him or her immediately, not when the first or second violation happens but when violations get too high for the carrier's comfort regarding its SMS totals and insurance premiums.

The longer you can run a dreg the better because it is cheap to do so, but if you have to replace one for CSA/SMS reasons, that's no problem at all since the dreg pool is large. They don't have to know enough to even keep a log book and the low pay for which dregs are willing to work more than offsets the cost of turning over a driver.
 
Last edited:

zorry

Veteran Expediter
A few years back there was a horrific murder/arson in Hebron In. The estranged husband was a suspect. He could't have done it. His paper logs proved he was hundreds of miles away at the time.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Since your compliance is perfect wouldn't an EOBR be a nice proof of compliance in the event of an accident in the future ?


Wouldn't the right to be presumed not guilty [in the absence of proof otherwise] be even nicer?
When did the US switch from the presumption of innocence to proving innocence, and why are we going along with the change?
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
I agree with you Cheri, but as truck drivers unfortunately sometimes our reputation precedes us.
 

Wolfeman68

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
It is a shipper's market until a driver shortage develops. But when will it develop? By putting EOBRs in trucks, carriers can replace driver skills (log keeping, time management, routing, fuel decisions, etc.) with in-truck baby monitors and intense supervision from dispatch and other entities at carrier HQ.

EOBRs turn drivers into robots. The closer a driver is to a robot, the less trained and less paid he or she needs to be. The fewer skills you require of a driver, the greater the hiring pool becomes because the dregs of society become more available to you.

Every new hire with no experience has a perfect CSA record starting out. You can run one for a few months and fire him or her immediately, not when the first or second violation happens but when violations get too high for the carrier's comfort regarding its SMS totals and insurance premiums.

The longer you can run a dreg the better because it is cheap to do so, but if you have to replace one for CSA/SMS reasons, that's no problem at all since the dreg pool is large. They don't have to know enough to even keep a log book and the low pay for which dregs are willing to work more than offsets the cost of turning over a driver.

Interesting scenario but I see it applying more to the larger trucking companies than to expedite. While I agree the EOBR functions you mention will occur, most of these are already in place. I have several friends that drive for large fleets, and the routing, time management, and fuel purchases are already controlled over the Qualcomm. Some have Elogs, some don't. The "dregs" as you call them have been in place for some time. Companies hire them at the cheaper pay rate, and discard them after accidents or violations pile up. It's not new.

I believe there will be a driver shortage, but it may not be as bad as it would have been had the driving hours been cut to 10. The unknown is what this 30 minute break will do. That came out of left field and I haven't seen any facts as to what repercussions it may or may not have. I see more drivers quitting the industry because they do not want to deal with CSA and the HOS regs.

As for new drivers, their lack of experience behind the wheel would worry me more than whether or not there was an EOBR in the truck. If I'm on a snow covered interstate moving at what I feel is a safe speed for the conditions and I see a semi passing me I'm going to be more concerned that he has the experience to complete the pass without losing it and taking me with him.

I started on the Elogs a few months ago since I wanted first hand experience with them. Load 1 offers them, but they are not mandatory. They do require some input from the driver since they keep time by the minute rather than the quarter hour. I consider them to be redundant since paper logs can be verified by time versus speed, fuel purchases, and Qualcomm positions. The major difference is that a DOT officer can verify an Elog quickly where a paper log would require him to do some math. I do admit that I feel less in control with the Elogs than I did with paper logs.

I feel the biggest impact of the new HOS regs will come from the new 34 hour rule. It could have you sitting much longer than 34 hours to fulfill that 1-5 am nonsense. It will cost expedite drivers loads and of course revenue. This will be the major source of putting new drivers on the road since current drivers could be unavailable longer complying with it.

As I said in an earlier post, the changes are not going to improve safety or reduce accidents. There are merely a political move to appease the special interest groups and fill the pockets of the politicians in Washington.
 
Last edited:

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Just to reiterate. If they had the industry's interest in mind with regards to safety, they would have addressed detention time, training, loading and unloading issues and a host of other items for the truckload folks. Hardly got mentioned. What gets mentioned and installed are items that they can collect revenue from. Some people need to wake up.

Dave,
I'm sorry but the ones who need to wake up are the ones driving.

Phil makes a good point (some of what I have said long before he did) and others seem not to see that point. I would think that if we, as an industry, want to have less regulations involved with our daily lives, then we need to step up and make efforts more than commenting on HOS.

One example is really a problem - training. We still allow anyone to get a CDL and these regulation changes are a direct reflection of poorly trained people driving trucks. As an industry we are fighting the need to tightening up training requirements, individuals don't see the problem or want to see the changes but many who know that the FMCSA can lessen the regulations by forcing those who just get out of school and into the driver's seat to actually have proper training.

When I mention what should be needed to drive a truck, I get reactions from it being a joke to disgust, but these are the same people who are crying about the HOS changes and making it into a "right to drive" issue.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
When I refer to "industry" that would include the drivers. I do agree if the industry had a interest in safety, they would be looking at a wide range of issues. But, it is revenue driven as to why other items will never get addressed.
I am pretty much convinced that the only way you would have any significant change in the TL sector would be through a slow down or strike.
Anything else pretty much falls on deaf ears because there simply isn't large enough numbers or money to push something. These and recent past regulations only confirms that.
 
Last edited:

dabluzman1

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It is a shipper's market until a driver shortage develops. But when will it develop? By putting EOBRs in trucks, carriers can replace driver skills (log keeping, time management, routing, fuel decisions, etc.) with in-truck baby monitors and intense supervision from dispatch and other entities at carrier HQ.

EOBRs turn drivers into robots. The closer a driver is to a robot, the less trained and less paid he or she needs to be. The fewer skills you require of a driver, the greater the hiring pool becomes because the dregs of society become more available to you.

Every new hire with no experience has a perfect CSA record starting out. You can run one for a few months and fire him or her immediately, not when the first or second violation happens but when violations get too high for the carrier's comfort regarding its SMS totals and insurance premiums.

The longer you can run a dreg the better because it is cheap to do so, but if you have to replace one for CSA/SMS reasons, that's no problem at all since the dreg pool is large. They don't have to know enough to even keep a log book and the low pay for which dregs are willing to work more than offsets the cost of turning over a driver.

Got both sides of the mouth working today there Phil.
You sure got indignant and I quote "You can include yourself in that group if you wish when you say "we" are our own worst enemies, but do not include me. " at Linda.
Were you a robot while at Fedex, if you were please dont include me in your experience.
Thank you.:cool:
 
Top