New Harvard Study On Iraq
- Thread starter dhalltoyo
- Start date
I also thought the oil for food program was crap.....it's the action I didn't agree with....the invasion....
It’s sad to see war protesters, now, then and tomorrow. Just think about an 85-87 year old man, that can’t pick up his feet to walk. When that man was 18 or 20, more than likely he was in a living hell during WWII. We see him as an older man in his last days of life. If you ask them about the war now, more than likely they will say we need to get out. Why? They know what war is like. They also know that if attacked the job would have to be completed. Some joined the military soon after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, as they did soon after 9-11. In both cases we were very untied in the cause.
It’s also sad to think if WWII was fought today we Americans would not win the war, we would not be united as we are not united in the current war on terror. We were united in WWI and WWII. How soon we forget. If the Iraq war is ever over, the war will continue on terror. Some say Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror some may not. Please remember that whoever was in the White House on 9-11, I feel that person would have stepped up and did what GW did. Declared war on Terror. Our Congress and House approved this Declaration and gave GW authority to use whatever means possible (Atomic Bomb included). He stood on the rubble and said, “…the people reasonable will here from us…” We got our first bloodily nose and black eye in a very long time. Was Iraq the direct reasonable people…. properly not directly. Now, how will the protesters act when we invade someone else who is a threat? We are at war and will be for a very long time. The protesters show our ermines that America doesn’t have the stomach for a long-term campaign. Just as they (protesters showed them in Vietnam.) We lost that one, tied in Korea.
General Robert E Lee over looking a battlefield said “ it is good war is so terrible, so we not grow fond of it”
His home was turned into a field of honor; it’s called Arlington National Cemetery.
It’s also sad to think if WWII was fought today we Americans would not win the war, we would not be united as we are not united in the current war on terror. We were united in WWI and WWII. How soon we forget. If the Iraq war is ever over, the war will continue on terror. Some say Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror some may not. Please remember that whoever was in the White House on 9-11, I feel that person would have stepped up and did what GW did. Declared war on Terror. Our Congress and House approved this Declaration and gave GW authority to use whatever means possible (Atomic Bomb included). He stood on the rubble and said, “…the people reasonable will here from us…” We got our first bloodily nose and black eye in a very long time. Was Iraq the direct reasonable people…. properly not directly. Now, how will the protesters act when we invade someone else who is a threat? We are at war and will be for a very long time. The protesters show our ermines that America doesn’t have the stomach for a long-term campaign. Just as they (protesters showed them in Vietnam.) We lost that one, tied in Korea.
General Robert E Lee over looking a battlefield said “ it is good war is so terrible, so we not grow fond of it”
His home was turned into a field of honor; it’s called Arlington National Cemetery.
Don't even pretend to know me well enough to know my politics, because you don't. And for the record, you're wrong.
Can it be possible that you really and truly are that stupid? Why you want to make this a personal issue, I have no idea. Why you can't comprehend simple English, I have no idea. I didn't call you or any other protester a traitor. Why is so difficult for you to understand that one simple fact? You can't, and I know why. You make your emotional arguments that have zero intelligence behind them, and when I question you on it, because you have no intelligent thought to work with, you quickly resort to name calling and a personal attack, and then either leave the debate completely, or reply with more personal attacks. It's the classic tactic of the witless and clueless.
I ask you again, point blank since you ignored the question and instead decided to attack me... Would you protest, if knowing that your protest would cost a solder his life?
Our troops do have the opportunity to say what is on their minds. Many of them do. And the fact that it's a civil war over there should not come as a shock to anyone. It's been said many times already. Have you not been paying attention?
<snipped the drivel>
So? Good for you, I guess.
You speaking your piece doesn't make me uncomfortable in the least. I'm all about free speech. Knock yerself out.
No thanks. I prefer to vote for who I want to vote for, rather than let you or anyone else tell me who I should vote for.
Uhm, like, that's "too dumb" not "to dumb." Feeling all smart now?
No you don't.
You're just the pride of Livermore, I'll bet. Real classy guy.
Now you go on and have yourself fine day.
I will, thanks. You too.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Turtle... have you ever seen the Bugs Bunny cartoon where Bugs and Daffy go back and forth with "Rabbit season, duck season"? Well your last reply reminded me of Daffy zipping up to Bugs with his mouth open, ready to chew him out. And Bugs (you) simply says "yaays?"; and Daffy's jaw drops with nothing to say.
Way to go, you waskawy wabbit.
Way to go, you waskawy wabbit.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OVM,
There are many UN issues that we need to address as citizens of the US. We had one person that was in the UN, Bolton who saw the need for serious reform. The UN has become too top heavy and does not do anything for the world, it has become more corrupt than the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany was. The oil for food went all the way right up to the guy who was in charge of the UN, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan but of course nothing was ever done.
But to give you an idea how it works at the UN, you got a UN Human Rights Council. The majority of the members are from Muslim countries. Make interesting reading when you hear about a resolution that will police free speech of people and the press that speaks against Islam in any form they see fit. This is the same council who in part has been condemning the US for 'failures' with Katrina and not giving enough money to fix problems at the same time ignoring real human rights issues in Iran, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Sudan, North Korea and ignoring the human trafficking and slave trade by Mexico. They are quick to demand we have an open border because we want to shut the border to stop an invasion but what good are they when they can’t stop slavery in some Arab countires or in Africa. They by the way have their hands in our slavery issues, which we are too stupid to understand what that was even all about.
Iraq, the UN had resolution that said force will be used. The problem is the countries who were involved with Iraq; France, Germany, Russia and a few others were not happy with any interruption of the oil and money coming from Iraq - the hell with the people, as long as the money flowed. The UN ran interference for these countries and Iraq, but I think that Bush was planning on fulfilling the US policy on Iraq long before 9/11 and I think he knew the UN had to be stopped. When you look at what happened during the war, who was saying what, like France was b*tching that they will not be part of the rebuilding or allowed to go into Iraq after the fall of Baghdad, they wanted to CTA. The same goes for the UN calling it an illegal war, it was never an illegal war – it was sanctioned under the UN, it followed our laws which are placed over the UN charter but the statement was made to stir up more propaganda. Kofi wanted to have Saddam tried by the world court, the US said NO he will be tried by the Iraqis, and we stood firm. I know this all sounds scattered, but there is so much to say and not enough time.
WMDs’, human rights issues, it don’t really matter because Saddam had the weapons, they found traces of Sarin in a lot of different areas. They still have millions of pages of documents that they are translating and some of it shows what happened to the weapons but we will never know or should. But as I point out that Saddam was a leader of a country with a lot of resources, if some kid can extract Sarin from Castor Beans, what makes anyone think he can’t? He had weapons; there is too much information to prove otherwise.
If you get a chance, go rent No Man’s Land, it is about the Bosnia war and how the UN screwed the people.
UN bad, US good!
There are many UN issues that we need to address as citizens of the US. We had one person that was in the UN, Bolton who saw the need for serious reform. The UN has become too top heavy and does not do anything for the world, it has become more corrupt than the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany was. The oil for food went all the way right up to the guy who was in charge of the UN, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan but of course nothing was ever done.
But to give you an idea how it works at the UN, you got a UN Human Rights Council. The majority of the members are from Muslim countries. Make interesting reading when you hear about a resolution that will police free speech of people and the press that speaks against Islam in any form they see fit. This is the same council who in part has been condemning the US for 'failures' with Katrina and not giving enough money to fix problems at the same time ignoring real human rights issues in Iran, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Sudan, North Korea and ignoring the human trafficking and slave trade by Mexico. They are quick to demand we have an open border because we want to shut the border to stop an invasion but what good are they when they can’t stop slavery in some Arab countires or in Africa. They by the way have their hands in our slavery issues, which we are too stupid to understand what that was even all about.
Iraq, the UN had resolution that said force will be used. The problem is the countries who were involved with Iraq; France, Germany, Russia and a few others were not happy with any interruption of the oil and money coming from Iraq - the hell with the people, as long as the money flowed. The UN ran interference for these countries and Iraq, but I think that Bush was planning on fulfilling the US policy on Iraq long before 9/11 and I think he knew the UN had to be stopped. When you look at what happened during the war, who was saying what, like France was b*tching that they will not be part of the rebuilding or allowed to go into Iraq after the fall of Baghdad, they wanted to CTA. The same goes for the UN calling it an illegal war, it was never an illegal war – it was sanctioned under the UN, it followed our laws which are placed over the UN charter but the statement was made to stir up more propaganda. Kofi wanted to have Saddam tried by the world court, the US said NO he will be tried by the Iraqis, and we stood firm. I know this all sounds scattered, but there is so much to say and not enough time.
WMDs’, human rights issues, it don’t really matter because Saddam had the weapons, they found traces of Sarin in a lot of different areas. They still have millions of pages of documents that they are translating and some of it shows what happened to the weapons but we will never know or should. But as I point out that Saddam was a leader of a country with a lot of resources, if some kid can extract Sarin from Castor Beans, what makes anyone think he can’t? He had weapons; there is too much information to prove otherwise.
If you get a chance, go rent No Man’s Land, it is about the Bosnia war and how the UN screwed the people.
UN bad, US good!
dcalien
Seasoned Expediter
I grew up with a father who was quick to let anyone who disagreed with him that they were either ignorant, or crazy.
Near as I can tell, he figured he knew it all. I have "known" a lot of things in my life that I later decided were wrong.
I wonder how many things I "know" now that may be inaccurate.
I support our troops. I know one of their main goals is to maintain freedom for us. Freedom to support, and freedom to protest.
Terrorists declared war on all free people a long time ago, and I would rather not see that war fought in Washington, DC.
Proud to be American, even with all the warts and wrinkles.
Maybe I am just ignorant, or crazy.
Near as I can tell, he figured he knew it all. I have "known" a lot of things in my life that I later decided were wrong.
I wonder how many things I "know" now that may be inaccurate.
I support our troops. I know one of their main goals is to maintain freedom for us. Freedom to support, and freedom to protest.
Terrorists declared war on all free people a long time ago, and I would rather not see that war fought in Washington, DC.
Proud to be American, even with all the warts and wrinkles.
Maybe I am just ignorant, or crazy.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I grew up with a father who was quick to let anyone who disagreed with him that they were either ignorant, or crazy.
Near as I can tell, he figured he knew it all. I have "known" a lot of things in my life that I later decided were wrong.
I wonder how many things I "know" now that may be inaccurate.
I support our troops. I know one of their main goals is to maintain freedom for us. Freedom to support, and freedom to protest.
Terrorists declared war on all free people a long time ago, and I would rather not see that war fought in Washington, DC.
Proud to be American, even with all the warts and wrinkles.
Maybe I am just ignorant, or crazy.
Dave,
To me I think that it does not matter what you know or think you know but understand the basics. All honestly this is a very complicated subject, one that we are fighting internally and externally and one that there will be no winners.
Supporting the troops means supporting their mission and their leadership. This does not mean that you have follow that leader in anything else or mean that you have to like the mission but the reason I say this is not to have the same thing happen to our troops today like what happened to them in the past. their lives, their work, their coming home depends on what we all say as a country and as individuals. Our enemies are all around, they are not stupid, they are well educated in things most of us can't comprehend but the one thing that is clear is the more divided we are, the stronger they are world wide.
What this all means to me is protesting the war is ok, putting the effort into changing people's minds are better use of energy and screaming, yelling, making a scene in congress and not using your head in repeating the same propaganda that the war opponents are creating does not build change. Many of the protesters I have met, scream yell and don't want to debate - a lot like many democrats.
You know as I am babbling here, I wonder how many who are against the war understand why we are hated? Can anyone come up with a realistic answer? I bet many can't but Dave you gave a great hint at it, freedom.
Just one thing to say "Wittle Silwy Turtle".
You are exactly right. I do not know you.
After reading what you have to say and the labels you so liberally place on people, dumb, crazy and whatever comes into your mind at the time of your keyboard rant leads me to believe. I do not want to know you or your kind. In the future I intend to not post on any thread that you have posted on prior. I feel it is useless to add to the garbage you tend to spew over everything. I respect everyone's opinions on here. I do however not agree with all but try to be civil in my response. Your constant remarks aimed at me is what fires my temper so I have a bit of advice for you.
Crawl back into your "Nerd Cave" and do me the same favor.
You are exactly right. I do not know you.
After reading what you have to say and the labels you so liberally place on people, dumb, crazy and whatever comes into your mind at the time of your keyboard rant leads me to believe. I do not want to know you or your kind. In the future I intend to not post on any thread that you have posted on prior. I feel it is useless to add to the garbage you tend to spew over everything. I respect everyone's opinions on here. I do however not agree with all but try to be civil in my response. Your constant remarks aimed at me is what fires my temper so I have a bit of advice for you.
Crawl back into your "Nerd Cave" and do me the same favor.
Bummer, I thought you'd finally man-up and answer the question I asked you. Doesn't surprise me, though, that you would continue to to evade the issue and, instead, post yet another personal attack.
How do you know? You don't even know me well enough to know what my kind is?
Intentions don't mean much with you, because I predict that you will be unable to resist the temptation.
At least we agree on something. I feel it is useless for you to add your garbage, too.
That's a lie.
That's another lie. Name calling is not a civil response, and you've demonstrated beyond all doubt that those who do not share you opinion are subject to name calling.
You're delusional and way too full of yourself. I've have, currently, more than 1100 posts here on EO. To date, other than my direct responses to you in this thread and in one other thread, only one of those posts was aimed directly at you. One. That's it. One.
Is that the best you got? Really?
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
See? I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. The above is known as a response. I know it's hard to understand these complicated concepts.
Not only do you STILL refuse to answer the question, you also do exactly as I predicted, which is to avoid the real issues here and instead attack me. You spout all these emotional arguments that have no basis behind them, and when you are utterly unable to back up your assertions with intelligent thought, the only thing you are left with is your emotions to attack those who do not agree with you. Hopefully, one day, you will learn enough to know just how big of a luzer that makes you appear.
Here, I'll make it easy for you. Let's see if you can answer this simple question:
Would you protest in public, be it in the streets or here on the Internet, against the war and George Bush, if you knew that your protesting would directly result in a soldier being killed by the enemy?
It's a yes or no question that requires either a yes or no answer. They don't get any simpler than that. Let's see if you're man enough, and smart enough, to answer it. It's put up or shut up time.
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I was content, and greatly humored, by sparring with this ignorant simpleton, but the final comment above crosses the line. I formally request that the moderators review this post and make a decision to ban either Robsdad, or me, I don't care which, because one of us is leaving, either involuntarily, or voluntarily. Once the F-bomb gets dropped, that's where I draw the line. All that's left is who needs to leave these forums because of it.
Let me make this easy on you. I am surrounded by sharks here anyway. You succeeded in bringing the worst out of me. That in no way will get you an apology. I still feel the same and wish we were face to face. I would love that right now. I will remove myself from this place. And if you are ever in Livermore, Kentucky please look me up. It would be my pleasure to meet you face to face. Just ask anyone where the only expediter in town lives. There is plenty of parking here and I will leave the light on for you.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Alright. Cut the personal attacks. This is supposed to be a civil forum where we discuss issues. Not a free-for-all where names and personal attacks reign. Relax. Breathe. Sing Kumbaya. Whatever! But stop the insults!
Robsdad... you know this is a debate forum. If you can't keep up with the substance of a thread, don't go cussing someone out. Just say your peace and leave.
Turtle... play nice.
Robsdad... you know this is a debate forum. If you can't keep up with the substance of a thread, don't go cussing someone out. Just say your peace and leave.
Turtle... play nice.
Ok
Turtle asked..."Would you protest in public, be it in the streets or here on the Internet, against the war and George Bush, if you knew that your protesting would directly result in a soldier being killed by the enemy? "
Boy tough one...how does one protect the rights of the constitution and not be made out like a conspirator??
If we were to restrict our rights that WE believe in and fighting this war to defend, does that not concede a win to the enemy as well?
That doesn't answer the question though...
Yes, I would protest. I believe to change would also inspire the enemy...We have to stand up for what we believe in ...or why even fight the war....we'd be defending an empty cause.
Also...we've went to war and lost many a good warrior...as they were defending our way of life and the constitution we hold so dear....as Leo says defend the whole constitution not just the parts you like....
Turtle asked..."Would you protest in public, be it in the streets or here on the Internet, against the war and George Bush, if you knew that your protesting would directly result in a soldier being killed by the enemy? "
Boy tough one...how does one protect the rights of the constitution and not be made out like a conspirator??
If we were to restrict our rights that WE believe in and fighting this war to defend, does that not concede a win to the enemy as well?
That doesn't answer the question though...
Yes, I would protest. I believe to change would also inspire the enemy...We have to stand up for what we believe in ...or why even fight the war....we'd be defending an empty cause.
Also...we've went to war and lost many a good warrior...as they were defending our way of life and the constitution we hold so dear....as Leo says defend the whole constitution not just the parts you like....
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arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
I think if you are protesting the war you are giving the enemy strength to fight another day. They feed off of that. That extra day they fight results in American casulties which results in more protesting which helps them even more. Why can't we all just get along? The sad thing about it is when we leave Afganistan and Iraq the fight is going to come here. Are you willing to take up arms and fight in the streets? I know I am. I took an oath like many others on here did. To protect this nation and the constitution against all enemies both forgein and domestic. The only thing is when I took mine I didn't put an expiration date on it. I will always have that duty. As long as , like I said May 28,2002, so help me God.