Multiple carriers.. beating a dead horse
- Thread starter LastChance2
- Start date
That is true. That is why Moot said in the van is averaging over dollar consistantly. I believe there is a lot more running over that .85 cents than what LC2 realizes. That also doesn't count DH or empty moves etc. There is alot of items that one has to look at.
The gross means nothing unless you have the costs to get to that number.
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LastChance2
Active Expediter
Now here's where when I have more time I'd like to learn something that I don't know much about. I mean, I know what fuel surcharge is and am familiar with the concept, but we had a broker we ran for for a very (very, very) short time (same one who doesn't like to give load pay to the driver with his other info) and we signed on with them because their offerings sounded good, including fuel surcharge. However, when the number crunching started, we saw no difference in the pay. When asked, they said, well, you get such and such percentage of the load and the FSC is included... I still couldn't see it and they refused to break it down line by line. So because of this negative experience I'm still quite in the dark about just how beneficial being paid FSC may or may not be. I've had others tell me it's not a separate pay but included in the final load pay, and to me, that makes no sense. I learned two things, don't drive for anyone who doesn't want to tell you what you're getting paid, yeah I know, DUH, and don't drive for load percentages.
I'd love to pick some brains on this and learn more about FSC (my co/bf has explained it and I've done research, but I'm still a little behind in my understanding of how much of a difference it can make), but I've already sat here longer than I said I would and have to have my son at BB practice in less than 20 minutes.
If you're $0.85 coming out, you should be getting $1.15 going in. Look at what Moot posted. His $1 a mile is typical for most larger carriers.
If averaged on a 40 hour week, he's getting paid $8.12 an hour. $325 a week is good pay, compared to the $290 that a $7.25 an hour minimum wage job gets you, I suppose, but I own my own van and pay myself 32 cents a mile (roughly the Rule of Thirds), and I come out at about $100 a day, or $500 a week. It takes about 1500 mile a week to do that, and at a decent rate per mile of at least 96 cents per, which I definitely get at my carrier.
Living in Murray, I can confidently state that I'm somewhat familiar with Western Kentucky.
You are correct. "They" refers to you and anyone else who thinks the same way.
I am, too. The key to that is having the experience and the knowledge of what is, and is not, smarter. Sometimes things seems smart, and then when you learn a few things, you realize it wasn't maybe so smart after all. That's the story of my life, pretty much.
Yes, there are. Depending on your definition of "broker". If by "broker" you mean a carrier, like Panther, Load 1, FedEx Custom Critical, etc., then yes, the base rate plus FSC is going to be extraordinarily consistent at 95 cents or better (although I have to confess I'm not sure what "consistently 100% of the time" actually means). At Panther ran for a minimum of 97 cents a mile (my 77 cent base plus at least a 20 cents FSC), and at Load 1 it's rarely that low. But then again Load 1 tends to pay near the top end of the market rates. Apparently, what you're accustomed to seeing is the lower end of the market rates.
Again, look at that $1 a mile Moot posted. it's an honest number.
Bluntly put, you need to be looking for new brokers or seriously consider leasing on with a single good carrier. More than 90% of your loads should be at least 90 cents, in the 90 cents to one dollar range, and the other ten percent should fall above one dollar and below 90. 90 or less should be the exception, not the rule. You're settling for lowball rates, because that's precisely the kinds of rates that the brokers you are getting your loads from can obtain. That, or they're screwing you.
Are you seeing the line haul bills the brokers are charging the customers? I'd hate to think they are getting $1.25 or more and then giving you whatever you've been conditioned to accept.
LastChance2
Active Expediter
Okay, so wouldn't the fact that my CV is averaging 93-94 (I think the actual number is .936, not pulling up my spreadsheet for this quick post) and the Cube is averaging I believe the actual number is .997 per mile mean that more than 90% of my loads are getting at least 90 cents per mile? I'm pretty sure it would mean more than 90% but maybe my math is a little off; it has been a very long day after a pretty hectic week. So are we agreeing to disagree on something we seem to be in agreement on?
Cool that you're in Murray, my daughter is about to graduate from MSU in May, following in her mama's footsteps with a degree in Criminal Justice. Maybe she'll put hers to more use than I did.
Only one other thing I would respond to and that is your comment about what I already do and that's asking more to go into Laredo because I know I'm going to have to take less to come out. We also agree on that, although I believe it was Davekc who said that I was wrong to do that. Although I'll defend his comments a bit by stating I think he was under the impression that I was trying to get unreasonable rates to go into Laredo, which isn't exactly the case, especially after being told over and over that my rates are super low anyway, apparently. So my asking for anwyhere from 95 to 1.05 to go into Laredo because I may possibly have to settle for 85-90 to come out, I guess is pretty good.
I had something else to say but I I think I know when to stop when I'm behind and so my delete key just became my best friend.
All in all, I'm pretty sure that we're actually all in fairly close agreement, we just get to the end a different way with different perspectives. The last few posts seem to be basically backing up what I've been saying, maybe it's just some wire crossing going on. We all know how much trouble one little short can cause, right?
paullud
Veteran Expediter
Living in Murray, I can confidently state that I'm somewhat familiar with Western Kentucky.
Wow, stating that publicly may cost you some credibility.
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Not really. Without knowing the number of loads, it's hard to know what percentage of them fall above or below 90%. For example, let's say you have ten loads, with one of them at $1.10 per mile, two loads at 95 cents, and seven loads at 85 cents a mile. 1.10 + (2 x .95) + (7 x .88) = 9.16 / 10 = .916 average per mile, with 70% of the loads being less than 90 cents per mile. But that also assumes all ten loads were the same length of line haul.Okay, so wouldn't the fact that my CV is averaging 93-94 (I think the actual number is .936, not pulling up my spreadsheet for this quick post) and the Cube is averaging I believe the actual number is .997 per mile mean that more than 90% of my loads are getting at least 90 cents per mile? I'm pretty sure it would mean more than 90% but maybe my math is a little off; it has been a very long day after a pretty hectic week. So are we agreeing to disagree on something we seem to be in agreement on?
Let's say the $1.10 load was 500 miles, that's $550. Both of the 95 cent loads were 750 miles at $1425, and three of the 88 cent loads were 400 miles ($1056) and four of them were 900 miles ($3168). That's a total loaded miles of 6800 with a total gross revenue of $6199, which comes out to 91 cents a mile, with the same 70% less than 90 cents a mile. So it really depends on how many loads and the length of line for each before you'd know what percentage of those loads fall into the 90% range. You could have two loads at above $1.10 a mile, and eight loads well below 90 cents, and still average out at more than 90 cents a loaded mile with 80% of the loads being 85 cents or lower. Just depends on the length of those loads.
Like I said, you're numbers aren't bad, but they certainly could be better. Currently, the average cargo van rate for a 2-3 skid van is about 95 cents a mile all miles including deadhead, either by all-in bid board bidding (which is what you're getting) or by base+FSC, it doesn't matter. It's the total pay per mile, all miles, that matters. Some carriers and brokers consistently pay in the 80-90 cent range (or lower), are are on the lower end of the current market, some pay in the 90-1.00 range and are in the middle of the market (the average rate per mile all-miles), and some pay consistently in the 1.00-1.15 range, which is the higher end of the market.
I still find it interesting that you stated "Honestly, I still stand by it, because the few who have posted saying otherwise seem to be the exception, not the rule. My co talks to Load One, Panther, and a multitude of others every day and so far hasn't found a single one... that is happy with their pay, their brokers, their dispatchers, etc.," because, quite honestly, you can very likely count on one hand the number of contractors at Load 1 who are unhappy with their pay or their dispatchers... because Load 1 pays on the higher end of the current market rate, consistently, and have dispatchers who, with rare exceptions, of course, will go above and beyond to ensure the contractors are well taken care of and happy.
Honestly, I think your next cargo van should be leased on with a large carrier, and run solely with that carrier, so you can truly compare the single-carrier versus multi-carrier model. I'm confident you'll see some surprises, especially if you pick a good carrier to lease the van with. I know a couple of small fleet owners who have done precisely that.
Congrats to her. Just one more semester and she's done. She can get out of this one red-light town and get back to the sprawling metropolis of Russellville. LOL (I also have relatives in beautiful downtown Elkon. We're practically related.)
I just think you should be asking more for going in, if that's what you're getting coming out. It's harder to get people to go to Laredo, so there is more money there to go. If your brokers aren't getting it, or they are getting it but aren't passing it along, you need to reassess your brokers. That's all I'm saying.
You're doing very well. But, you can do better. Time and experience will certainly help, and lots of talking to other drivers both here and at trucks stops will be good. The more you learn about this business, the more you realize you don't know. There is a natural tendency for those who have been with a single carrier or have only run under a single business model to only know things from that perspective, from within the one context, and they are basically operating with their eyes wide shut despite thinking they've got it all figured out. Then one day their eyes are seriously opened and the flood of new possibilities opens up.
Time and experience will do it. Having had 20 years in general trucking is both a help and a hindrance, because general trucking and expediting are so very different from each other. Often what works in general trucking will bite you in the butt with expediting. Things like running for multiple brokers, which is common and routine in general trucking, before learning the expedite side of things. A year or two at a single carrier to learn how things really work, will make the move to multiple-brokers far, far easier with a shallow learning curve. The other way around, like you're doing, means you have to re-learn everything you think you already know, because expediting is really that different from general trucking. In another year or two you will have learned that, and I have no doubt you will. The best example of the eyes wide shut thing is we have one member here who spent several successful years with one large carrier, and pretty much knew what was what, had it all figured out... until he changed carriers, and then his eyes got seriously opened. Time and experience, and the more time and the more varied the experience, the better.
Which? Murray, or Western Kentucky? LOL
For years I had Murray, KY listed under my avatar, before the pond started filling up with pennies.
LastChance2
Active Expediter
You don't know where Gilbertsville is at, do you?
I am in Marshall right on the lake. I'm only about 25 minutes from you.
runrunner
Veteran Expediter
I'm have to say this because it is so true. It is impossible to determine if working for one carrier or more than one carrier is better,because there are to many variables,and everyone here knows what those variables are. Sometimes having someone else load you is gonna help and sometimes it will hurt and you most likely never know. Every time you except a load there in theory could have been an even better one offered had you said no. That is just my humble opinion.
LastChance2
Active Expediter
It may be your humble opinion, but it's the smartest post that's been made in this whole thread (including mine). I agree wholeheartedly. One man's poison is another man's tea.
And, just to make a quick response to a lot of other posts/threads, my name is Dani, not Lisa, and posting or lurking, I still stand by everything I said. My cube has run 2,197 miles since last Tuesday and my cargo has run 1,838 since last Wednesday. Two runs for the CV and four for the Cube. It's starting out as a great year. Neither have sat for more than 24 hours (except for this weekend and that was only the CV).
May everyone's runs be long and rpm be high.
You don't know where Gilbertsville is at, do you?
Sorry. Brain fart. I had just gotten off the phone with one of my relatives in Elkton and we had been talking about Russellville, so when I responded to you my fingers were typing Gilbertsville but my brain was still in Russellville.
But yes, I know where Gilbertsville is. Sorry about that. Been there many times. At one time I had a boat at the marina until we moved it down to Kenlake.
The sprawling metropolis shot still stands, though.
I earned more than that, I might say almost double, with a single carrier... well, in a whole year, not nine months...
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I'm not Lisa
My name is Dani
Lisa left us, years ago.
Apologies to Dani and Jessi Colter.
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volunteer 1
Expert Expediter
Dani, I sent you a PM.
guido4475
Not a Member
I'll put anyone's one good one up against my four good ones...
You don't want to go there..I, like Rocketman, guarantee that you will lose....lol...