Fuel Mileage; Is This Student on to Something?

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
This morning, we read this story in The Herald Mail (Hagerstown, MD newspaper). It made me wonder, is Bobbie Myers on to something?

Excerpt:

"Going one step further was junior Bobbie Myers' project, Water 4 Fuel, which can double fuel mileage in a vehicle using water to supplement gasoline or diesel fuel, said science teacher Mathern Mellott.

"Myers used a domestic well-water filter, a few screws and pieces of metal for a simple device that connects to a car battery, said Gary McGee, who teaches agricultural and technical sciences in the district. A current running through distilled water separates it into oxygen and hydrogen which is then fed into the engine air filter.

"The two combustible gases mix with the gas or diesel to produce a mixture that burns more completely and cleanly. McGee said.

"No moving parts. No precious metals. No exotic chemicals."
 
Last edited:

gojack

Expert Expediter
Sorry for the long post
I have been discussing this elsewhere, here is a summary.

(Executive Summary; yes it produces Hydrogen, but it’s a scam)
See:Stanley Meyer's water fuel cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Onboard Automotive Hydrogen Generator

The Law of Conservation of Energy.
"Energy can neither be created nor destroyed"

All energy conversions processes involve Losses (heat, friction etc.)

1) Convert the energy in fossil fuel to electrical energy with the engines alternator.

2) Convert electrical energy into chemical energy...Produce Hydrogen.

3) Convert chemical energy to mechanical energy through thermal expansion.


The process loses energy at each step to heat and friction, it can not boost fuel economy

You are loosing more energy than you gain. The on board hydrogen generator consumes around 180 watts. That is about 1/4 HP. Add losses in the alternator wiring and Hydrogen Generator… it puts about a 1/2 HP load on the engine. So you have 1/2 HP loss to make enough hydrogen to produce >1/6 HP.
(15A X 12V is 180 watts. There are 746 watts in a horsepower.)



More Detail:

A Modern Engine has a 99%+ combustion efficiency, anyone claiming to dramatically
increase combustion efficiency is lying, it's all ready near maximum.

“Hydrogen is an energy carrier, not an energy source. Energy is required to separate it from other compounds. Once produced, hydrogen stores energy until it is delivered in a usable form, such as hydrogen gas delivered into a fuel cell. Hydrogen can be produced using diverse, domestic resources including fossil fuels, nuclear energy, biomass, and other renewable energy technologies. The environmental impact and energy efficiency of hydrogen depends greatly on how it is produced. The primary challenge for hydrogen production is reducing the cost of production technologies to make the resulting hydrogen cost competitive with conventional transportation fuels.”

eere.energy.gov



“Electrolysis of water is the decomposition of water (H2O) into oxygen (O2) and hydrogen gas (H2) due to an electric current being passed through the water. This electrolytic process is used in some industrial applications when hydrogen is needed.

Efficiency:
Water electrolysis does not convert 100% of the electrical energy into the chemical energy of hydrogen. The process requires more extreme potentials than what would be expected based on the cell's total reversible reduction potentials. This excess potential accounts for various forms of over potential by which the extra energy is eventually lost as heat. For a well designed cell the largest over potential is the reaction over potential for the four electron oxidation of water to oxygen at the anode. An effective electro-catalyst to facilitate this reaction has not been developed. Platinum alloys are the default state of the art for this oxidation. The reverse reaction, the reduction of oxygen to water, is responsible for the greatest loss of efficiency in fuel cells. Developing a cheap effective electro-catalyst for this reaction would be a great advance.

The simpler two electron reaction to produce hydrogen at the cathode can be electro-catalyzed with almost no reaction over potential by platinum or in theory a hydro-genase enzyme. If other, less effective, materials are used for the cathode then another large over potential must be paid.

The energy efficiency of water electrolysis varies widely with the numbers cited below on the optimistic side. Some report 50–70%[2], while the theoretical maximum efficiency of the electrolysis of water is between 80–94%.[3] These values refer only to the efficiency of converting electrical energy into hydrogen's chemical energy. The energy lost in generating the electricity is not included. For instance, when considering a power plant that converts the heat of nuclear reactions into hydrogen via electrolysis, the total efficiency may be closer to 30–45%.[4]”

[en.wikipedia.org]
 
Last edited:

Hawkeye

Seasoned Expediter
The device the student was making is called an HHO. You can google it. There are web sites that will sell you the device or instructions to build the device (Run Your Car on Water). I have two friends that are trying to design and build one for their own cars. Another fuel saving technique you can try is adding no more that 2oz of 100% acetone to every 10 gallons of gas/diesel. One friend has tried it, and he claims that his car runs better. As always, do your research before you try something.
 

gojack

Expert Expediter
Hawkeye,

HHO just stands for Hydrogen Hydrogen Oxygen --- 2 Hydrogens one Oxygen (H2O) Get it?

Splitting H2O into Hydrogen and Oxygen by applying electricity
has been around a long time. It is called water electrolysis.
It takes MUCH MUCH more energy to split the water into HHO
than the energy you can obtain by burning HHO.

By using the energy that you car is producing ( by burning fuel )
You are converting the energy in the fuel into HHO in a very inefficient process.

Converting the energy in fuel to mechanical energy is only about 33% efficient, another 33% of the fuels energy goes out the exhaust as heat, and the another 33% of the fuels energy is heat removed by your radiator.

Then you must convert the mechanical energy into electrical energy... More losses

Then convert the electricity into chemical energy ... More loss

you are then burning the HHO (free Hydrogen and Oxygen), in the same very inefficient engine.

The internet (ebay, utube etc., ) has plenty of fuel saving scams
This is one of many.

Do Some reading here :Fuel saving - a professional engineer's view

NONE I repeat NONE of these snake oil devices has ever been scientifically shown to work.

Popular Mechanics Magazine, Consumer Reports, The Federal Government have all tested many of these... None has ever worked.

Read: Looking For A Miracle: We Test Automotive 'Fuel Savers' - Popular Mechanics

Tell you friend,
Acetone is a powerful solvent, it can destroy plastic and rubber with prolonged exposure.
Your fuel system has some plastic and rubber parts. Over time these parts of the engine will be destroyed.
Bad idea.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
ok so as i read about the fuel savers,there is no magical fix.if you want to save fuel,drive like there is an egg under your gas pedal,no jack rabit starts and SLOW DOWN,you wont be late,just keep your left door shut.My fuel mileage has jumped,im back to over 7 mpg,two things,not useing the 1500 ulsd and not going flying j.Last week had a run from TN to MI,got 8 .6 mpg.26000 lb load.
 
Top