Even Carriers are having a hard time filling jobs.

BigCat

Expert Expediter
Please explain this, a driver with three years no moving violations is better than a driver with ten years experience and one to two moving violations in three years? I'm still in my first year otr but have held my cdl for thirteen years, I have been a fleet mechanic and triax / redymix driver with no moving violations in better than five years, but I'm still amateur on these CSA CVSA issues

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Tickets mean CSA points. And with the CSA the points are now tripled. So a driver with less experience and no points is better than more experience to carriers. Especially since the points count against carriers scores as well.
 

spongebox

Active Expediter
Does this apply only to moving violations with a fine, or violations received from a roadside / weighstation non-fine violation as well

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moose

Veteran Expediter
to be awarded a CSA score one of three things needs to happen.
a road side inspection resulted in a violation (or not)
a towed vehicle from a place where a police report was filed (usely an accident)
a severe injury or a fetal accident.
 

john12666

Active Expediter
This truck drivr shortage is another persisant myth. Let me explain. If there truely was a shortage of drivers, than driver pay would increase and so would rates.

I've been around this gig for 7 years and driver pay is exactly where it was when I started. Rates are mostly lower. The reason big companies complain abou driver shortages is becase there is a federal law that allows them to import aliens if they can't find americans to do the work. HB1 visa I think it is called. So everytime you see a knucklehead somali in a swift truck taking 2 hours to park.

Yes somalis and ignorant indians will drive a truck for half of what an american will. Same thing happened to construction in CA except it was illegal alliens.

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there is a shortage of compenent drivers ....especaily in expiditing
 

BigCat

Expert Expediter
there is a shortage of compenent drivers ....especaily in expiditing

There are also shortage of competent owners. Good owners get good drivers. Owners with high turnover shouldn't be owners if they are so screwed up to retain drivers.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I always think there is a little bit of both. Some owners are ripoff artists and do everything possible to jerk the driver around.
On the other side, there are new drivers without a commercial drivers license that expect the owner to provide a new truck with a large sleeper, make at least 100k a year and need to be home every weekend. But of course....they have no money to get their CDL or attend orientation.
Usually get a call once a month on that type.
 

BigCat

Expert Expediter
I always think there is a little bit of both. Some owners are ripoff artists and do everything possible to jerk the driver around.
On the other side, there are new drivers without a commercial drivers license that expect the owner to provide a new truck with a large sleeper, make at least 100k a year and need to be home every weekend. But of course....they have no money to get their CDL or attend orientation.
Usually get a call once a month on that type.

What's your number Dave? I need a job of 100k a year and weekends off. :)
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I can help with the first part but can't do much with the second. :cool:
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
I was just posting what I found in the paper because I thought it was funny. We have had calls from teams from some of the big carriers that want to get into expediting. The last two months we have hired three team from big carriers. They tell us they that are making more money now driving a D-unit than they did driving a semi for a big carrier.
 

BigCat

Expert Expediter
I am supposed to go into flatbed for a small company sometime soon making $.46 cpm as a solo. Much better than ive ever got since being an expediter.
 

jeffman164

Seasoned Expediter
I would have to assume that turn over for van fleet owners is pretty high at ALL companies - NOT just at Panther .
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I would have to assume that turn over for van fleet owners is pretty high at ALL companies - NOT just at Panther .

I don't have any vans but that would be my assumption. Straights and tractors would be different.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
Your post #20 is one of the best mini history lessons I have seen. Thank you for it.
AND ?... his post touches the TL sector,
while in expedite we have a system in place that guaranty the placement of the freight on the lower bidding truck, regardless of how much the costumer is been charged for.
we take the negotiations AND service skills out of the supply chain system.
we guaranty cheap freight . (don't talk about this,it's a secret)
just like in TL, expedite carriers benefits well from spinning the revolving door.
there's not even ONE expedite recruiter that will provide hard data to support a carrier turn over rate.(just another secret)
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I would have to assume that turn over for van fleet owners is pretty high at ALL companies - NOT just at Panther .
It's a logical assumption, for the obvious reasons, since fleet van driver turnover is going to be higher than that of straight and big trucks, anyway. But Panther has a rather unique culture with regard to its van fleet owners. They cater more to the fleet owner than they do to the drivers. They encourage van fleet owners to expand, assuring owners that Panther can find warm bodies to place in the vans, which discourages thorough interviews by the owners since Panther has done all the grunt work. They have policies in place to deal with the lowest common denominator (the clueless van driver making no money with no investment in the vehicle) that are explained to the van O/O but are not to the van driver.

When the van driver has questions about some of the details, especially confusions or disputes in pay, the standard reply is "talk to your owner" because they won't talk to the driver about pay issues, as the drivers are paid by the owner, not Panther. The owner isn't running the loads, so they don't know the details of the dispute either in most cases. For example, when a driver negotiates a bonus or some other accessorial that doesn't get paid, they won't talk to the driver about money, that's between the driver and the owner. The owner doesn't know what it going on with it, so they have no knowledge with which to go to bat for the driver. The driver is left feeling that either Panther or the owner is cheating them.

Panther deals with van fleet drivers more like they are employees rather than respected business owners. In their view, the drivers are leased to the owner, and Panther will only answer to the owner. I saw that first hand because of the unique situation I was in when I was with them. The van's title was in my stepdad's name (not anymore, but it was then) and he was technically the van owner and I was his driver. My stepdad didn't want anything to do with it at all. He's old and has a lot on his plate as it is. Papers were signed, including full power of attorney, instructing Panther to deal directly with me on any and all issues. I was also the only driver at Panther who had the Comdata Owner Card on the driver's screen who wasn't technically the owner, which made for some interesting "whoops" moments. I got a lot of "Talk with your owner if you have any problems with it," kind of thing. Once they realized they had to deal with me directly on the issues, attitudes changed dramatically. They became more responsive and forthcoming with details, and disputes were settled quicker and easier, because they had no choice but to deal with it.

These types of things, and other factors, result in even higher turnover than one would find with van fleets in general.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
there's not even ONE expedite recruiter that will provide hard data to support a carrier turn over rate.(just another secret)

Representatives of three expedite carriers have confided their annual turnover rate numbers to me when I have asked. I have not asked more carriers because it has never been a topic important enough for me to research more deeply. The topic comes up in conversations about other things and I ask for the number as a side question and then return to the topic at hand. One carrier, in a conference call, announced its turnover rate.

The turnover number is well known by each carrier. No one has said they would have to check and get back to me. When I ask for the number, it is on the front of their minds and the tip of their tongues. It is a statistic that matters to them.

Of the four carriers whose turnover rate I know -- and the information is dated for some of them -- the turnover rate ranges from 10% to 60%, which is much lower than the big truck load carriers publish. Depending on the year and on circumstances, I expect that an individual carrier's turnover rate fluctuates a fair amount. For example, when Con-Way NOW was sold to Panther, there was more driver turnover activity than what would normally occur in other years.

I can say, because they have told me it is OK to say, that Landstar Express America is the carrier with the 10 percent (ballpark) turnover rate.

Landstar is clearly on the low end of the turnover scale. Eliminating that outlier from the range, and extrapolating from the limited information I have, I would estimate the turnover rate for the larger expedite carriers to be 40 to 60 percent. I have no information about turnover at small expedite carriers.
 
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blackpup

Veteran Expediter
AND ?... his post touches the TL sector,
while in expedite we have a system in place that guaranty the placement of the freight on the lower bidding truck, regardless of how much the costumer is been charged for.
we take the negotiations AND service skills out of the supply chain system.
we guaranty cheap freight . (don't talk about this,it's a secret)
just like in TL, expedite carriers benefits well from spinning the revolving door.
there's not even ONE expedite recruiter that will provide hard data to support a carrier turn over rate.(just another secret)

Very good post! You made the point I was trying to make.

Quote [Carriers benefits well from spinning the revolving door"]qoute !!

Your Truckers Petition thread needs to be bumped up, it might encourage more drivers to take a hard look at trucking industry.

jimmy
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
It's a logical assumption, for the obvious reasons, since fleet van driver turnover is going to be higher than that of straight and big trucks, anyway. But Panther has a rather unique culture with regard to its van fleet owners. They cater more to the fleet owner than they do to the drivers. They encourage van fleet owners to expand, assuring owners that Panther can find warm bodies to place in the vans, which discourages thorough interviews by the owners since Panther has done all the grunt work. They have policies in place to deal with the lowest common denominator (the clueless van driver making no money with no investment in the vehicle) that are explained to the van O/O but are not to the van driver.

When the van driver has questions about some of the details, especially confusions or disputes in pay, the standard reply is "talk to your owner" because they won't talk to the driver about pay issues, as the drivers are paid by the owner, not Panther. The owner isn't running the loads, so they don't know the details of the dispute either in most cases. For example, when a driver negotiates a bonus or some other accessorial that doesn't get paid, they won't talk to the driver about money, that's between the driver and the owner. The owner doesn't know what it going on with it, so they have no knowledge with which to go to bat for the driver. The driver is left feeling that either Panther or the owner is cheating them.

Panther deals with van fleet drivers more like they are employees rather than respected business owners. In their view, the drivers are leased to the owner, and Panther will only answer to the owner. I saw that first hand because of the unique situation I was in when I was with them. The van's title was in my stepdad's name (not anymore, but it was then) and he was technically the van owner and I was his driver. My stepdad didn't want anything to do with it at all. He's old and has a lot on his plate as it is. Papers were signed, including full power of attorney, instructing Panther to deal directly with me on any and all issues. I was also the only driver at Panther who had the Comdata Owner Card on the driver's screen who wasn't technically the owner, which made for some interesting "whoops" moments. I got a lot of "Talk with your owner if you have any problems with it," kind of thing. Once they realized they had to deal with me directly on the issues, attitudes changed dramatically. They became more responsive and forthcoming with details, and disputes were settled quicker and easier, because they had no choice but to deal with it.

These types of things, and other factors, result in even higher turnover than one would find with van fleets in general.

If that kind of behavior isn't dishonest, it will do until the real thing comes along. Thanks for the heads-up, it gives a potential driver something to think about before signing on.
 
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