Cherry Pickin

[joebob1_30132]

Leo Im surprised at your suggestion that a 40 % refusal is cherry pick'n .. Im assuming you have 10x the expierience I have and can respect that but if you have seen the kind of offers that were made to me a couple weeks back and "certainly you have in your time" then you know my justification for my plummetting acceptance rate...In your new position as a rep.. Iwould expect you not to try to stradle the fence between PII and the o/o you represent..you are not doing any of us favors..with comments like that.. Dont get to comfy in the big chair a the PII offices.. We need an advocate to express our legitimate concerns, not a "politician" or a nother person to justify the companies positions.. When PII or any other carrier pays all my fuel, insurance,repairs,maintenace,workers comp, health care, truck payments,give me the same work week they have(home every night, 2 days off)..When they incurre those costs then we can discuss "the good with the bad"another words make me a company driver..
but they cant have it both ways.. O/Os should reserve the right to do business any way they see fit ..PII reserves the right to offer any loads they see fit . Free enterprise corrects itself slowly..
but it works.. when a company offers something someone wants then they will take it.if not someone else will. But subtle intimidation via news letters.. wont change anything..

 

[LDB]

Ok, let me try one more time. First I didn't say a 40% refusal rate is cherry picking I said a 40% acceptance and 60% refusal rate is cherry picking and I will now add to that statement 'in most cases'. I have seen plenty of poor load offers and don't think 100% acceptance is a sound business policy from the owner/driver standpoint. I also agree there are times and situations that are going to drop the acceptance figure and aren't because of cherry picking but necessity of getting home etc. but those are the exception in a 40% acceptance situation. I do not believe that 2 out of every 3 load offers are not worth running.

I did understand the post but perhaps my response wasn't fully understood. Here's the data provided.

Availability Acceptance Dollars
Driver 1: 100 40 17176.00
Driver 2: 77 80 15442.54
Driver 3: 100 100 14401.35

Driver 1 was available 100% of the time and made $17176. Driver 2 was only available 77% of the time and made $15442. Driver 3 was available 100% and made $14401. If we take $15442 and divide by 77 and multiply by 100 to equalize it to 100% availability like the other two then the money is $20054. The 40% acceptance driver doesn't make the most money when we equalize the availability time. Let's look at it one other way in hopes of clarifying. Driver 2 had 23% free time available to him for whatever he chose since he was only in service 77%. If we take away 23% from driver 1 his $17176 drops to $13226 and driver 3 drops from $14401 to $11089. The example data above is apples to oranges. When it's equalized it shows the cherry picker is not making the most.

The driver that accepts somewhere in the 2 out of 3 to the 3 out of 4 range is usually going to make the most money. I understand the concern that a 200 mile run is going to take 5 to 6 hours total to complete. One problem with your issue is that while you are sitting another 2 or 3 hours waiting on that prime load offer somebody else is half finished making money. You also may have turned down a 200 mile followed by a 1500 mile run you'd get at the end of the 200 mile delivery to get a 600 mile run a few hours later from where you were sitting followed by another 600 miler after it. Potentially the truck taking the 200 miler could do 1700 miles against your 1200 by cherry picking. It could just as easily go the other way though. The problem is you have no way to know ahead of time. The only thing you can know for certain is you are making no money while you sit and wait on that better job to come along and the better job may actually be waiting for you to arrive at the end of the one you just turned down.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Likewise, you could be driving that 200 miler, and the guy behind you gets a 1000 miler. That would trully stink if you're a team, and the one sitting behind you was a solo. I think most of the problem is... leave the short ones for the solos and save the teams for the longer runs. With the way things are currently, there's no way two ppl could make two incomes driving team. If they believe the opposite, try putting two dispatchers at one desk, but only one can work at a time.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[ATeam]

In your
>new position as a rep.. Iwould expect you not to try to
>stradle the fence between PII and the o/o you
>represent..you are not doing any of us favors..with comments
>like that.. Dont get to comfy in the big chair a the PII
>offices.. We need an advocate to express our legitimate
>concerns, not a "politician" or a nother person to justify
>the companies positions.

Panther is not my carrier and I have no dog in this fight, but Joe, I am a bit taken aback by your shot at Leo and by extension the other newly elected members of the new Panther council. This is a brand new program and those involved are just getting started. The wise ones will be very political (as in diplomatic and polite) as they feel their way into this new program and figure out what it is all about, and determine if it is worthy of their long-term support. It is a program of great potential. If it works, I can see other carriers doing the same; something that would benefit all drivers.

If you feel justified in shooting potshots at the people elected to represent you at this early stage, the obvious question is, why did you not seek the office yourself and go storming in as you deem appropriate?

These people are committing personal time and expense to the council in hopes of improving things for drivers. They deserve the benefit of the doubt and a fair chance.

 

[davekc]

I think you have to look at the merit of the runs to determine what is feasible and what isn't. I don't believe I have ever been a advocate of taking every load offer. Gross monthly numbers don't have that much meaning unless you know what was spent to get there.
Just as others have witnessed, I don't think it makes sense to decline every load offer that is under 500 miles if a team. I would take the 500 miler that keeps me in the freight lanes, verses a 1500 miler to say Salt Lake. Do we do small runs? It depends on where and the time of day. But, we don't do them to waste a day. In general, we don't take runs that are sure money losers. At the same time, it is foolish to sit for days waiting on a big load. There is still a cost for every day that one sits and does nothing.
As a single driver, the HOS does make it tougher. Developing the ability to obtain some of your own freight I believe would be most beneficial.
We do shelter ourselves from some issues when we haul our own freight. Especially out of dead areas or an area that may be saturated with trucks.
I do think that runs ran several years ago, can't be ran in todays economic environment. Everyone is running at rates from 5 years ago, but cost have went up to operate considerably. Like I said earlier...it is a delicate balance to stay ahead of the curve.
As for employees of a carrier coming in and just answering the phone and going home............well, I will say there is alittle more to it than that. If not, everyone would be doing it.











Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[davekc]

Phil makes a good point. (I can't believe I just wrote that).
The new driver council is just in its infancy and hasn't even had a meeting yet. I think it has to be given a chance to develop before we start questioning something that hasn't happened yet.
I think these elected people who volunteered, deserve a chance to make some changes and support from their peers.








Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[LDB]

As far as my representation on the council, reading my posts on this forum should be enough to quell any concerns. I believe I have consistently shown an interest in the well being of the people in the truck. That said, I'm not going in there expecting changes that would significantly reduce the company's ability to continue in business. I'm looking for solutions that will be win/win and address problems faced by those out on the road. If I were thin skinned I'd be insulted by the idea I was doing a poor job before I even started.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[LDB]

>Likewise, you could be driving that 200 miler, and the guy
>behind you gets a 1000 miler. That would trully stink if
>you're a team, and the one sitting behind you was a solo. I
>think most of the problem is... leave the short ones for the
>solos and save the teams for the longer runs. With the way
>things are currently, there's no way two ppl could make two
>incomes driving team. If they believe the opposite, try
>putting two dispatchers at one desk, but only one can work
>at a time.

Thawk, you could be on the 200 and the next guy gets that 1000 miler. Then again, you could be on the 200 and be predispatched for a 1000 miler after that delivery while the guy behind you gets a 500-600 miler with no follow up. I don't advocate anyone be in the business with someone unrelated. The money can't divide between more than 2 pots at most. I can't agree with a policy of short jobs to solos and long ones to teams. Everyone deserves the opportunity to get long runs. As others have said, evaluate the job on it's merits. Some of the 200-300 milers are winners and some aren't. With the HOS as they are it's almost more important for solos to get longer runs since their day ends in 14 hours while a team doesn't get shut down until they reach 70 hours.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[RichM]

JoeBob you are way out of line.Leo is far from being a politician. If you have the attitude that the Panther council will be useless even before they have met why bother to comment. I applaud Panther for this move and announcing who the members of the council are.

 

[LDB]

>Leo is far from being a politician.

Uh... thanks... I think. :+

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Teflon]

Thanks Leo for doing the math......But lets not forget what we are trying to accomplish here.. Make money. No matter how you do the math, irregardless of in service time or acceptance, the guy with the lowest acceptance made the most money. If I were in PII management or a PII stock holder I would make an example of driver number 1. Bottom line...he made me more money than driver 2 and 3. So driver number one's acceptance rate is not important.

What better to have trucks working and making money or trucks sitting out of service most of the time, but maintaining that great looking acceptance percentage. If I were running a company with say 1500 trucks, and at the end of the year all drivers were averaging $17000 per month instead of $10000 or $12000, I could care less what the Acceptance rate is.

 

[Prarysun]

What I would be interested in knowing is why your numbers can be destroyed in one day/nite, and take months to rebuild? The ratio doesn't seem proportionate. I asked dispatch and they didn't know.
For example, Friday I deadheaded to Chicago in hopes of snagging a decent load for the weekend. I even put it in my notes, however I wound up destroying my acceptance avg by refusing 4 loads in a row. I finally got a nice load to TX but as I have experienced before, I probably will get passed up next to someone with a higher avg a/c my avg went south in one nite. This same thing happened before and I was still recovering from the high 90's which I destroyed in one day trying to get home. Doesn't quite seem fair that your avg can plummet so low and take so long to rebuild. Perhaps someone already knows why or can this maybe be addressed at the committee? Thanks!
I turned down very bad loads that didn't even make up for my deadhead over to Chicago, I wish they would build in a macro when you are not willing to accept less than 300 miles like they used to do at FECC. Not sure they still do that over there but at least you didn't get your avg destroyed and they didn't waste time on calling you if you were trying to go farther or stay out on the weekend. I do not mind staying out over the weekend if I do not have to sit. I purposely stay out weekends to keep busy and too often have had to sit around or bite the bullet and d/h home.
















Dianne

 

[Fr8 Shaker]

There is just a few small things that Panther would need to do to alleviate the problem of CHERRY PICKING... Now I'm only addressing the issue from a cargo van stand point. Being thats what I drive.

1) Minis need to be paid more... Van's should be paid 100.00 to 125.00 for any mini 0 - 100 miles then your mileage rate after that.
I believe that panther has to be charging alot more than that to begin with, if they're not, than all they are doing is giving away your services.

Here's a scenario...You have a driver working for an owner on a 60/40 split. driver gets offered a panther mini at 11:00 am....pay to truck 50.00 driver gets 30.00 45 miles d/h to pickup, 1/2 hour to an hour waiting to get loaded, 50 miles to consignee. Driver has almost 3 hours tied up during the most productive time of the day as far as loads go and then thats pretty much all he'll end up getting for that day unless he gets lucky. after paying for fuel he's lucky to have made 20.00 that day, before incurring any other expences.

2) Panther needs to level the playing field by making it fair for all drivers. NON FORCED DISPATCH should mean just that. Not NON FORCED DISPATCH WITH PENALITIES. You should not lose your board position for turning down a load. To make it fair they should go from the shipper 75 miles out to whoever has been sitting the longest and offer to that driver first. In a case where the freight is hot and has to be picked up a.s.a.p. then to the closest driver only if driver 1 doesn't have enough time to get there. This way you can do away with the so called board positions (not much freight actually comes out of the so called board city's anyway) and you would be free to move about anywhere pretty much without worrying about crossing a different zip code and losing your position.

3) It would also help if d/h pay was increased to at least .20 per mile after the first 50 miles and also empty move pay @ .20 per mile re-instated. moving a truck to a location doesn't just help the driver it also helps the company, so a little cost on their part would help out both.

But the main thing needed to stop the cherry picking is PAY MORE !!!


Not doing this for my health, if I wanted to work for my health I'd get a job at Bally's.

Best to all,
Fr8 Shaker

 

[LDB]

>No matter how you do the math, irregardless of in service time or
>acceptance, the guy with the lowest acceptance made the most
>money. If I were in PII management or a PII stock holder I
>would make an example of driver number 1. Bottom line...he
>made me more money than driver 2 and 3. So driver number
>one's acceptance rate is not important.
>

Availability Acceptance Dollars
Driver 1: 100 40 17176.00
Driver 2: 77 80 15442.54
Driver 3: 100 100 14401.35

You are entitled to your opinion but driver number 2 is the star example of this group. Acceptance rate is definitely important both to the company in covering loads and to the driver in maximizing his earnings. You must equalize either availability or acceptance before comparing dollars or you have an invalid comparison. You are comparing apples to oranges. We can't equalize acceptance but we can equalize availability. Driver 3 makes $144.01 per availability unit. Driver 1 makes $171.76 per availability unit and Driver 2 makes $200.55 per availability unit. Driver 2 wins. Do you prefer hourly? We can say that each availability percentage point equals 5 hours so driver 3 makes $28.80 per hour. Driver 1 makes $34.35 per hour and driver 2 makes $40.11 per hour. Driver 2 wins.

There is no way you can make driver 1 win when you do an apples to apples comparison. You can only make driver 1 win when you erroneously look at the amount above based on non-equalized data. Management is going to make an example of driver 3 who's the perfect team player taking everything and making customers happy. People who can't see the bottom line are going to make an example of driver 1 who got the biggest check this time. If I had a truck to fill I'd be after driver 2. He's the best money maker because he isn't cherry picking and he isn't blindly taking everything. He's the driver who proves the point that around a 3 out of 4 ratio makes the most money.


Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[highway star]

Note to self: Never argue numbers with Leo.:+

 

[LDB]

Note from Leo: Usually a good decision.

I'm fortunate to be good at math. My mom was great at it. During the 1950's she was in charge of payroll for over 3000 employees. They had nothing better than a comptometer to do it with but she could get them all paid correctly every pay period.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Fr8 Shaker]

Well I wanted to add to my last post but it seems you can't edit after 60 min. from posting as I wasn't quite finished with it but had to go on a run. Anyway,

(4) Another thing these companys need to do is get away from discounted miles. ie: household good miles. As always it seems it's the driver getting the short end of the stick. Over the course of a year this could be several thousands of dollars. Most companys are now paying their drivers only practical miles which is the way it should be. If the companys want to discount, let it be on their end.
The worst thing about it is they offer you a load without telling you it's household or discounted miles and you don't find out until your most of the way to your delivery.

It's not because a driver is lazy or just want 3000 mile loads. He just wants to be able to make a living at a job he enjoys doing. And for someone pretty much living on the road in a truck or a van, not being home everynight, being away from family and friends, eating in resturants or their trucks (alone for the most part) Missing out on family functions or holidays. I feel thats something that should be compensated for.

One way for dispatch and office personal to get a reality check on this would be to do it. I know Panther and other companys have truck/vans on their lot with owners waiting for a driver. Well heres a thought. Better yet instead of some owners truck, the company should buy a van or two and as a requirement for being hired as a dispatcher or any other office position they need to go on the road by themselves for at least 1 month, 2 would be better, and with no favoritism from dispatch and no other compensation make a living doing this before being put in the office. Then they would at least have some idea. It would also be interesting for Mr. French to do this and afterwards post his results and figures. ie: Runs, miles acceptance percantage, d/h miles, expenses and profit.

I don't know maybe it's just me, But I feel that any company that would takes the best aspects of all companys in this business and incorporate them into their business practice would be the most successful company out there with little or no driver turnover.

Anyway this is the most I've vented in years. Now lets see if anyone is listening.

Best to all,
Fr8 Shaker

 

[Turtle]

How about, as a requirement for being a driver, you first have to put in two months as a dispatcher?

I think it's a safe bet that no company will ever require a low-paying dispatcher to go through the process and expense of getting their CDL with a HAZMAT endorsement and then force them to drive for 2 months. The Puppy Mill Drivers that don't know squat are bad enough out there as it is, without adding to it people who don't even want to be behind the wheel in the first place. Not to mention the fact that you'd be eliminating anyone under 21 from being an $8 an hour dispatcher.

 

[Fr8 Shaker]

Well thats not a bad idea, actually Panther will allow any driver to sit in dispatch for as long as they want. I believe at one time, I don't know if they still do, but if you stayed there for an 8 hour shift they would pay you $100.00 As for expense all they would need would be a chauffeur license. They could be exempt from hazmat... and if the dispatch is so low paying, they may just decide to stay as a making money hand over fist cargo van driver.

As for myself, I have done dispatching, operations supervisor, shipping and receiving. Company driver and owner operator both truck and van. I also know other drivers who have dispatch experience.

Fr8 Shaker

 

[Made In Detroit]

It seems to me that Panther is the problem. Out of all of the posts that I see on here, Panther is the one company that seems to be the consistent topic of bashing threads. FECC seems to follow at a distant second. Maybe it's just because they have the largest fleets in the industry, seems to me that both of them are getting too big for their britches. My solution is simple. Go to work for a smaller company. It's been my experience that the smaller carriers are the ones that truly take care of their drivers. All of my dispatchers know me by name not by my truck number, there is no Qualcomm to deal with, and when I do them a favor it is actually remembered and reciprocated most of the time with a much more profitable return favor. Panther is nothing more than a large corporation, and large corporations care about nothing more than lining their own pockets and impressing their shareholders. My simple rule while looking for a carrier to lease on with was that I would not under any circumstances work for a pubicly held company. When a company goes public their only motivation thereafter is to impress wall street, everyone else be damned. Panther has recently experienced a mass exodus of some of their best performers after the whole Con-Way debacle, their solution was to beef up recruiting. Not a solution to the problem. Panther, just like the Big-Three automakers is trying to solve a problem at the top by dumping all of the s**t on the poeple at the bottom. Also when a company has large fleet owners working on the inside and taking all of the good runs away from the independents at the bottom before they can even be offered to the little guys how can anyone expect to be profitable with something like that going on? My suggestion would be to leave Panther and sign on with a small company with no fleet-ownerswhip or company-drivers and your problems will be solved. Leave Panther to stew in it's own feces and start being profitable for yourself. Look out for number one because nobody else is going to do it for you, especailly Panther. Don't be afraid of change. In my experience change has done nothing more than reap greater financial rewards in the end, trust me the good carriers are out there you just have to look for them and not be afraid of taking a leap of faith. Leave Panther, they suck!!!