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Cargo van logging question..................

terryandrene

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
Part 383.5 - Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle-

(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds);

Cargo vans are not CMV

(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

Cargo Vans are commercial vehicles; Part 395.8(a)(1) applies.

Part 395.1(e)(2) Operators of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring a commercial driver’s license. Except as provided in this paragraph, a driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.3 and §395.8 (Hours of Service of Drivers regulations)

Part 395.8(a)(1) Every driver who operates a commercial motor vehicle shall record his/her duty status

Cargo van drivers do not operate CMV as defined by Federal Regulations; therefore, they do not need to log.

Cargo van drivers are not required, by regulation, to have a CDL; therefore, they do not need to log.

I stand by my original comment that implied that if you are not a CMV for the seven days prior to becoming a CMV (during HAZMAT load), you do not need to show your status as On-Duty.

The defense rests.
 
LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It might not be an "official" answer but I'd ask the safety department of whatever carrier one runs van for to give an official company position on this. Terry's response sounds correct from a common sense standpoint but when did the government run on common sense?

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Oh God, here we go again.

Here is what I am told to do by the MSP.

Do not log unless I am carrying any Hazmat of any quanity.

I can show actual hours for the previous 7 days or show it off duty.

I do not have to log after I have delivered and I can show I am stopped.

The other piece of advice from the nice MSP CE officer is that every state has different laws, FMCSA regs only cover the states that are not specific on logging, so you can claim that your home base state regs are such and you can possibly get out of the situation with a warning.

Oh one last thing, why is it that Hot Shot haulers don't have to log, don't have to have a sleeper and a bunch don't have a CDL?

I mean isn't it time that the states start enforcing the laws with them instead of picking on the poor vans?
 
arkjarhead

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
Terryandrene,
You know what's funny? You aren't required to run a log book, but you try to tell people how they should run theirs. I'm not telling anyone they need to follow me, but some people for whatever reason chose to cheat. I'm just trying to help people stay out of trouble if they choose to cheat. I've often told people they shouldn't cheat. I don't condone it, but I've done it. I'm sorry I don't look at life through rose colored glasses, and talk about things as they appear to me. When you have to start running a log book everyday, which I think van drivers should have to do, then come back and talk to me how you run 100% legal. You never get behind, and you never drive over your time limit for even 15 mins. I'm sorry but when I feel to tired to drive I pull over. Until then I'm rollin. I figure you should make money while you can.
 
F

fastrod

Expert Expediter
395.2 guidance question 14 How must a cmv ( van with hasmat) driver driving a non-cmv (van under 10,001 lbs.) at the direction of the motor carrier record this time? If cmv drivers operate motor vehicles with gvwr of 10,000 lbs. or less at the direction of a motor carrier the fhwa requires those drivers to maintain records of duty status and record such time operating as on duty (not driving). If you drive a cargo van and never haul hasmat you dont have to log. Once you haul the first hasmat load you have to log everything from that day forward.
 
B

bamamule

Seasoned Expediter
everyone who drives for a living should have to follow the same rules a law enforsement school bus drivers van drivers no mater who
 
C

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
Part 395.2
Definitions:
On duty time shall include
(8) performing any other work in the capacity , employ , or service of a motor carrier; and


(9) Performing any compensated work for a person who is not a motor carrier .

Like I said earlier , you are not required to fill out a log book while flipping burgers but if you flip burgers five days then operate a CMV the 6th day , you must show the previous five days' hours as on duty .
 
Dog_House2691

Dog_House2691

Seasoned Expediter
I have my endorsment and have hauled hazmat,and have never Logged.No one has ever asked,and when I made Safety aware of hazmat load,they said no Log required.If we are not regulated by D.O.T. who would ask to see our coloring book? I dont stop at scales.
 
C

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
Just one other example . I was a supervisor for an industrial cleaning company . I would drive a 10 wheel vacuum truck to a job that lasted over a week or more . I worked 12 hour days on site . All the hours working had to be logged on duty . At the end of the job , unless another driver was available to come after the truck I was paid to sit in a motel 2 or 3 days until I had less than 70 hours in 8 days and could drive the truck .
 
JohnMueller

JohnMueller

Moderator
Staff member
Motor Carrier Executive
Safety & Compliance
Carrier Management
My opinion on logging for vans:

*You must log any runs where you transport 'PLACARDABLE" quantities of a hazardous material.

*You must log for any trip entering the state of Alabama - it is their state law - they WILL put you Out of Service (just like CMV's) for lack of a log book.

The previous seven days logs should be prepared and carried. I suggest you use "On-Duty" time for all 'COMPENSATED" work that you have done in the previous seven days. This would include driving your van, flippin' burgers or tending bar at Joe's Bar & Grill.

You should submit the logs for any hazardous runs to the carrier you are leased to - they could be subjected to a "Compliance Review" (fancy term for AUDIT) by the Federal Government (DOT) on their Hazardous Materials Carrier Registration, or even by a state agency, such as the PUCO (Public Utilities Commission of Ohio) on their "state-issued" Hazardous Materials Registration. Logs are certainly a reviewed area of such compliance reviews.

Thanks,
HotFr8Recruiter

}>
 
C

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
All that being said I question the wisdom is carrying an amount of hazmat requiring placarding in a cargo van . There certainly is a lot of risk there . A cargo van is lower and far less sturdy than a C or D unit if somebody runs into you .
 
T

Twin Pop USA

Expert Expediter
Hmm... was told at orientation NEVER to use a log book!! Guess Id better have one around in the van for those Alabama runs
 
C

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
>Oh God, here we go again.
>
>Here is what I am told to do by the MSP.
>
>Do not log unless I am carrying any Hazmat of any quanity.
>
>I can show actual hours for the previous 7 days or show it
>off duty.
>
>I do not have to log after I have delivered and I can show I
>am stopped.
>
>The other piece of advice from the nice MSP CE officer is
>that every state has different laws, FMCSA regs only cover
>the states that are not specific on logging, so you can
>claim that your home base state regs are such and you can
>possibly get out of the situation with a warning.
>
>Oh one last thing, why is it that Hot Shot haulers don't
>have to log, don't have to have a sleeper and a bunch don't
>have a CDL?
>
>I mean isn't it time that the states start enforcing the
>laws with them instead of picking on the poor vans?
I missed this the first time through . Here are some answers regarding hotshots and RV haulers . They do have to log . RV haulers even have to log the deadhead miles they run even if they haven't been committed to another load . I have seen many hotshot rigs pulled behind the scales . They probably get checked out more than anyone else . There are various reasons for not having sleepers , most typical are length laws and weight concerns for staying under 26,000 lbs. gcw . Staying under 26,000 and never hauling hazmat explains why no CDL is needed .
 
easyrider2697

easyrider2697

Expert Expediter
>Hmm... was told at orientation NEVER to use a log book!!
>Guess Id better have one around in the van for those Alabama
>runs


Also remember this one for Alabama...Max speed limit in the state for ANY vehicle carrying haz-mat is 55 mph
 
nightcreacher

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
only if it says all commercial vehicles,or all vehicles carrying haz mat as ohio does,or if it sign reads all vehicles over a certain weight
 
M

MSinger

Expert Expediter
Alabama has only one permanent scale house and it is located on I-20 at 209 mm near GA border. They have several weigh-in-motion scales in other areas that are remotely monitored by DOT officer who will pull an overweight vehicle over at the next off ramp. See www.coopsareopen.com for further info.







2002 GMC Savana 3500 DRW 15' cube 10,000 GVWR "Old Yeller"
former Penske truck
 
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