Blown Engine Help

woodman5455 · Feb 26, 2005

I have a 1999 FL70 with an ISC 215 hp engine. The turbo went out a couple of days ago. I drove it about 15 miles to a cummins dealer that deals with mainly Blue Bird Busses. They replaced the turbo and changed the oil just in case things got sucked up the intake.

As they were taking a test drive after installing the turbo they said that while shifting from 4th to 5th that the moter reved way over the 2,400rpm that the max rpm allowed and looks like blew up the lower end of the engine. They are tekking me that because I ran the miles that I did while the turbo was out that i weaked the moter and that is why it blew. Why did the moter over rev while they were running it?

If it is my fault then I will take the blame. Just not sure what happened and if it could have been something that they did.

Where would be the best place to find an engine replacement? and about how much are we talking. I have heard around $15,000. I only paid $18,500 for the truck 2 years ago.

Let me know what you all think and what I shoud do. This rental is getting costly.

Thanks Guys
Dale

RichM · Feb 26, 2005

I know a expediter who got a rebuilt ISC last Dcember for about 11K installed.He is a member of EO but rarely posts. I will send him a PM and ask him to contact you. BTW the work was done in the atlanta area either by Cummins or F/Liner.

Big Scooter · Feb 26, 2005

Hello, Woodman

Sorry to hear about your engine trouble...I feel your pain. Rich said to let you know about my problem. I hope this helps.

The end of November, my Cummins 300 ISC blew on I-20, west of Atlanta with 494,000 miles on it. I am the original owner and have changed the oil every 10,000 miles religously with Shell Rotella conventional oil. I've always used Speedco and have a gallon of Lucas Oil Additive included each time, with an oil analysis for a track record. I have the rack adjusted every 50,000 miles and have had it dyno'ed every 100,000. I am confident that I have taken as good care as an owner can, and yet it blew anyway, about 250,000 miles before I was expecting to have to get a rebuild.

The reason I included the background is to show you why I question what Cummins says and does in these cases, especially since you have had a similar experience with them trying to put the blame on you for the failure of their engine.

I had my truck towed to Cummins in Atlanta for repair because I would never trust a Freightliner for that kind of work. Most F/L facilities can barely be trusted with smaller repairs as it is. I left the truck with them, rented a car and drove home to Jacksonville. After their diagnostics, I was told that the engine failed for some unknown reason not related to oil or coolant. Three days later, I was told that the computer code showed an engine overspeed occurred roughly around 35,000 miles, although there was no time duration indicated for the event.

Because I was able to show that I had regular readings done from my ECM readout for other maintenance problems, I was able to show that their theory was false. They were trying to blame me for something which did not occur and I had proof. My trust of Cummins disappeared, and is verified by your experience.

Eventually, they decided that the cam pin had failed and that the cam spun. They insist that it was due to an overspeed, but cannot show proof that one ever occured. They can offer no other explanation. There is no indication of an impending failure of a cam pin. No way to detect that it is going to fail. I have since talked to two other O/O's who have had cam pin failures in a Cummins ISC.

My engine was rebuilt for $11,800 because the lower block had to be replaced due to a crack. This did not include a replacement of the turbo. I had them replace the water pump and injectors also and my total bill came to $12,600. I would have gone with a reconditioned engine from Memphis but the availability was in six to eight weeks with another ten to twelve days for shipping and installation, for $16,000. I was already out for two weeks and looking at another week for the rebuild.

I have since been watching the rebuild like a hawk. I have a six month/100,000 mile warranty on the rebuild. I still have no real answer as to why it failed. A week after I picked up my truck, I had to have the dip stick holder replaced because the mech had hammered the new one in and broke the mount, which led to a good oil leak. I have also had to have two oil line fittings replaced because they were crossfed in the reinstallation and leaked oil.

For these reasons, I DO NOT recommend a Cummins engine and will not buy another one. There are probably some folks who have had good experiences with them. I haven't met one yet. I don't recommend a repair at Cummins in Atlanta, either, although the one in Jacksonville has always done a great job.

I hope this may be of some help. Maybe someone else will read this and have some good recommendation for you. Let me know if I can help in any way. If you want the phone number for Cummins in Atlanta, let me know and I hope things work out for you.

Best of luck
Big Scooter

:7 :7

Big Scooter · Feb 26, 2005

Jeez, Woodman...I was so busy crying about my experience, I forgot to give you a recommendation to consider. Here goes:

First, the engine blew while THEY were test driving it, after the turbo installation.

Second, what justification do they have to prove that the engine was weakened by the 15 miles that you drove it? If they were worried by that, why did they settle on replacing the turbo instead of recommending a teardown inspection?

Third, where is your truck located?

I would like to run your info by the good folks at Cummins here in Jacksonville, to see what they say. Although I don't recommend Cummins anymore, there are some good and helpful facilities and I have a list of some which I have "experienced". Let me know your info soon as I am at home this week and could help you with some info right away. I think Rich M can give you my phone number.

Big Scooter

woodman5455 · Feb 26, 2005

Thanks for your help Big Scooter. My truck is at Blue Bird Bus Sales of Pittsburgh. They service mainly busses but it was the closest place to take it and they are dealers and service Cummins and Cat engines. The place is in Valencia PA which is out side of Pittsburgh.

Thanks for all your help again.
Dale

davekc · Feb 26, 2005

It certainly does seem strange that after a turbo replacement the engine blows from a incident of overspeed.
We have replaced many turbos in the past but never encountered that problem.
Let us know how it goes.
Davekc
owner
20 years

woodman5455 · Feb 26, 2005

Thanks Davekc. I will keep everybody informed of what happens and what i find out.
Dale

rode2rouen · Feb 26, 2005

Dale,

The engine blew up while THEY were road testing it?!?!?!

You don't need to buy a new (or ReMan) engine, THEY need to buy one for you!!!! Contact your attorney immediately!!!
REFUSE TO BE BULLSH*TTED!!!

It sounds to me like the person doing the road test may have shifted from 4th to 3rd instead of 4th to 5th! This would most certainly cause an overspeed condition and lead to the spontaneous disassembly of the bottom end! Their explanation is pure HORSE PUCKY and is intended to make you feel the fool while getting their incompetent butts out of the fire!

Rex

plumcrazy8 · Feb 27, 2005

My thoughts exactly. Blew up while THEY were driving due to engine overspeed. They downshifted and took out the bottom end. Get the Attorney and if you are lucky enough to have a loan on the truck let them know and they can put pressure on also! Bankers have a lot of clout (and great lawyers!). This has worked for me at one of those god-awful freightliner dealers.

bigjimhp · Feb 27, 2005

Tell them you need something in writing stating the causes, on company letterhead signed by mechanic and the manager. so it will hold up in court, when and if engineers have to be brought in to reason with their theories. I had a turbo go out in Gainesville Georgia, driver brought it back to Detroit (ok'd by me) very lightly, turbo replaced and truck is still work like a dog (5.9 cummins), this motor has been a dream made me buy a bigger cummins M-11, but my first experience with a 5.9 was terrible, but this fl-70, I picked up for 5 thousand cash (170k miles), had to get it. The only truck I can say that has paid for itself and a house too!!! GOOD LUCK, STAND TALL, THEY WILL TRY TO SH#T ON YOU!!! JUST THE NATURE OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

x06col · Feb 27, 2005

Also, you can tell the repair facility that the rental truck bill is adding up for THEM until you are back on the road.

davekc · Feb 27, 2005

It is a possible that your truck was shifted incorrectly. I would ask them under what circumstances did this happen. If they were use to driving school buses it is a strong possibility that they hit the wrong gear. Especially if it was a 9 speed or higher. If there is a engine computer on your truck, it should have coded when it blew . If no data is recorded, they cleared it. Still sounds pretty strange.
Davekc
owner
20 years

woodman5455 · Feb 27, 2005

Thanks everyone for your comments. This has helped alot. I am going to get an attorney on Tuesday. If anyone knows of a good one let me know. The truck is in the Pittsburgh PA area and I love inbetween Dayton and Cincinnati OH.
Keep the comments comming.
Thanks again for all your help and support.
Dale

larrybadger · Feb 27, 2005

>Thanks everyone for your comments. This has helped alot. I
>am going to get an attorney on Tuesday. If anyone knows of
>a good one let me know. The truck is in the Pittsburgh PA
>area and I love inbetween Dayton and Cincinnati OH.
>Keep the comments comming.
>Thanks again for all your help and support.
>Dale

Dale, check your private mail box, if you can't access it for some reason, my email is [email protected] send me a quick email I will send the info that way.

Larry Badger
Plainwell, Michigan
Future expediting company driver
Stay-at-home Dad, 2000-
25 years self-employed in landscaping business

woodman5455 · Mar 2, 2005

Just to let everybody know what is going on.

I had the truck towed to Cummins Bridgeway in Pittsburgh PA yesterday. The Bluebird Bus place wanted there $1,374.00 before I could have the truck towed so I gave them a credit card number. I talked to Cummins on the phone and they told me that that it sounds like the other place did not charge the air cooler for the turbo after replacing it. They told me that this would cause an over rev of the engine. I hope to hear there findings sometime today. I will keep everone posted as I find things out.

Thanks
Dale

woodman5455 · Mar 5, 2005

Cummins Bridgeway informed me that the engine did blow due to oil in the aftercooler. The engine reved to 3,470rpm befor it went south. It has so much damage that they suggested a drop in moter. They priced it to me at $10,000 and a little over $4,800 to install it. I will be talking to them more on Monday. I am also going to contact an attorney then. I talked to Bluebird bus sales who did the turbo install and they said that they did clean out the aftercooler so it is not there fault.

I will keep you all informed as to what happens. I just want my engine fixed and the rental truck paid for ever though it did cause alot of problems going to a smaller truck box size and one that would beat you to death driving it as well as no sleeper.

Thanks for everything guys
Dale

RichM · Mar 6, 2005

Will the ECM on the engine tell you the date and time when the engine was over revved. If so you have a real good case against the Blue Bird people.Probably would never get to court if you have hard data that the engine blew when they were testing it.

woodman5455 · Mar 28, 2005

Just to give everybody an up date. I picked up my truck from Cummins Bridgeway of Pittsburgh and brought the rentral truck back to Penske.
The people at Cummins Bridgeway were great to deal with. They took about 15 photo's of the engine showing the oil leaking out of the pipes and the air charge cooler. They also supplied me with a copy of the Cummins engine service manual which states that all oil must be cleaned out or engine damage will result.
They even wrote on the bill the cause of the engine failure was do to an over rev of the engine. They also wrote that this was caused by improper replacement of the turbo charger. The first over rev was 3,025 rpm and then it gulped some more oil and reved to 3,245 rpm when it blew.
I tried to meet with Blue Bird of Pittsburgh the day I picked up the truck. The service manager from Blue Bird did go over to Cummins Bridgeport and look at the engine damage. Itried 3 times to get a hold of the service manager to show him the pics and the bill of sale which states it was their fault but could not catch him in.
I then went back to Charlotte to pick up my load after the show there. I found out who owned the Blue Bird of Pittsburgh Company and sent him registered mail a copy of what the bill said and all the photo's. He called me bac on Friday and said that they do not believe what Cummins is saying and that they think it is my fault because when they did an oil change after installing the turbo they say they found only 6 quarts of oil in it.
They said that I just was trying to get a new engine out of them and that they pay for attorneys everyday on retainer and if I want to then just take them to court.
I guess that is the way it is going to go. I have almost $20,000 out of pocket with the engine and truck rental.
I need to pay the attorney $2,500 to start his work so its going to be a week or two until I can do that. Took almost every dime I had to get the truck fixed.
I have also filed with the BBB and the attorney general of PA. Have not heard anything from them yet. I will keep you all posted as to what happens.
Dale

merkurfan · Mar 28, 2005

what a nightmare. Sounds like blue bird is at fault but does not want to accept responsability. Threatening you with the fact that they have a lawyer on retainer is a indication they must get sued alot. Go after them for all they owe ya (try for lawyers fees to) they will probably buckle when your lawyer has them served and pay up. They just hoped with the threat you would go away.