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An open question to owners of unmarked van companies.

xiggi

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Another thread got me thinking about this.


If you reside over a company who's vans carry no permanent lettering what is the reason? Isn't that kind of like trying to sell yourself as a great artist but refusing to sign your work?

I understand certain individual drivers will have a reason they cannot fly your flag but this question is asked in the spirit of the average van in your fleet. I do use the word permanent for a reason.

Sent from my Fisher Price ABC123 via EO Forums
 
M

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I have little doubt permanent markings carry some weight. Problem: Who owns the van?

If it's a company owned vehicle, permanent markings make sense. The company owns it, further the company has the right to say what markings are on it and how, or if, the vehicle can be used on the driver's "off" time.

If it's a contractor-owned vehicle, things get quite a bit stickier. Personally I favor magnetic signs for contractor-owned vehicles, while on duty you fly the signs, when off duty the signs can be stowed so the vehicle can be used as the private vehicle it is.

I could wish the company I drive for had given me some signs. As it is, I had to make my own. They lack the outline of the United States which the "official" signs their STs and TTs have, but they have all the critical information.
 
OntarioVanMan

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
My very first carrier we used the magnetic signs...which made border crossings a bit easier...and NYC entry...
 
Lawrence

Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
I think it a bad reflection on our industry when you see a van or straight truck running on the down low. I think of the thousands of vans in the NYC area that don't run signs. Say who you are and what you're doing - unless it's not safe to do so. IMHO.

Oh, yeah - Mr. Straight Truck sitting at the TA at the 181 on 1-75. WASH YOUR FILTHY TRUCK! Venting over.....
 
tknight

tknight

Veteran Expediter
Better yet invent a mag sign to stick to those m2 all allium doors and fiberglass sleepers and boxes!
 
M

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I've worked for a company that provided paper signs laminated in plastic. You taped these things to the side of your van. Good thing: The paper signs had all of the company information and the company logo, so it was easy for me to get magnetic signs made that looked just like the company signs (yes, I had my own signs back then, too). Of course, the same sign shops can make signs out of other materials, and you can use other methods-- like screws, for instance, if you have wooden sides-- to fix your signs on the sides of your van.

The bad things about those laminated signs: After a couple of months, weathering would cause the signs to fade and look really tacky. Speaking of tacky, there can't be an uglier way to fasten signs to your van than using tape. Whether you use clear packaging tape or resort to duct tape (yes, I've seen someone do this) it would be hard indeed to make a bigger mess of the side of your van.
 
zorry

zorry

Veteran Expediter
I had an aluminum sleeper decaled to my carrier. I had nut inserts installed. I had secondary signs I could bolt on in minutes, covering the area with the decals.
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Lawrence said:
I think it a bad reflection on our industry when you see a van or straight truck running on the down low. I think of the thousands of vans in the NYC area that don't run signs. Say who you are and what you're doing - unless it's not safe to do so. IMHO.
Click to expand...
I agree one hundred percent. It's a bad reflection on the industry, seems almost seedy, unseemly, and doesn't exactly exude professionalism. The perceptions of the Ushippers and the unlettered vans are virtually the same - unprofessional. People have their reasons for running bare, and they will staunchly defend their doing it, but none of that changes the perceptions.
 
Dynamite 1

Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Personal has nothing to do with it. You can use your vehicle any way you choose if you are leased to a carrier. When off duty and performing no actions for the carrier you can use your vehicle for personal use whether it is signed or not.

Biggest reason for not having Signage is the carrier is cheap and doesn't want to spend or can't afford to spend the money. Or since its not required they don't do it. All vans carrying freight in a for profit situation should be required to
 
skyraider

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Turtle said:
I agree one hundred percent. It's a bad reflection on the industry, seems almost seedy, unseemly, and doesn't exactly exude professionalism. The perceptions of the Ushippers and the unlettered vans are virtually the same - unprofessional. People have their reasons for running bare, and they will staunchly defend their doing it, but none of that changes the perceptions.
Click to expand...



6 pack anyone.......................
 
skyraider

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
xiggi said:
Another thread got me thinking about this.


If you reside over a company who's vans carry no permanent lettering what is the reason? Isn't that kind of like trying to sell yourself as a great artist but refusing to sign your work?

I understand certain individual drivers will have a reason they cannot fly your flag but this question is asked in the spirit of the average van in your fleet. I do use the word permanent for a reason.

Sent from my Fisher Price ABC123 via EO Forums
Click to expand...

Many drivers drive for more than one company, now what??????????????? ans: magnetic signs.
 
Brisco

Brisco

Expert Expediter
Lawrence said:
I think it a bad reflection on our industry when you see a van or straight truck running on the down low. I think of the thousands of vans in the NYC area that don't run signs. Say who you are and what you're doing - unless it's not safe to do so. IMHO....
Click to expand...

What if they aren't running on the "down low"? Remember.....as many point out....Cargo Vans under 10K are not classified as CMV's under FMSCA R&R's.....so if it's not a CMV after all....No Need for markings at all. IMO......the marking of a CV under 10K would be up to the Carrier itself as to whether they want their Name being publicized out there or not.

Case in Point........some 20 Plus years ago when I first gave Hot Shot "Courier" work a try, a few of the companies here in the DFW area required their Contractors to place Magnetic Signs on their Vehicles. (their S-10s, Rangers, CVs, Wagons, Etc) Over time....that requirement just started going towards the way side. As one Courier Company owner explained as to why he quit putting Magnetic Signs on the Contractors Vehicles........"Why let your Competition KNOW who your Customers are??" In other words......if the Guy had a Huge Contract with a Customer that requested 5-10 delivery vehicles sitting at his Dock every morning at 8am to do their daily deliveries, why would he want a Salesman from a Competing Courier Co see this to only go into said Customer to try to undercut him?

I know this wouldn't exactly apply to the Expedite Industry in General......but it is the same concept. (Courier Work - Localized within a City / Expedite - OTR City to City) There may be certain reasons why "Legit" on the up and up Expedite Carriers are not requiring their Contractors to mark their vehicles.
 
xiggi

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Even for the common multi carrier group most of us are aware of there are solutions if they really wanted. They could form a group for this instance call it PRIDE -
Proud Reliable Independently Dispatched Expediters.

Make decals with that name and each carrier could have a small logo say four inche's or something they could add to the bigger decal. This type of idea takes away the argument of not flying permanent lettering because one runs for multiple carriers. That group knows and even recommends the other carriers to their drivers as far as i understand.


Sent from my Fisher Price ABC123 via EO Forums
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Plumbers work for a large number of customers, and the plumbers see no need to put the name of each customer on the vehicle while they are working for that particular customer. But they do announce their business and purpose on the side of their vehicle. Vans who drive for multiple carriers are in the same situation. Playing musical magnetic signs for each carrier isn't very practical, especially since most of those who run for multiple carriers are, for lack of a better term, self-centered, and can see no "what's in it for me?" angle for using multiple magnetic signs for each carrier they run for. Changing out magnetic signs for each carrier would get really old really fast, so I can see why nobody would want to do that.

Someone asked, "What if they aren't running on the "down low"?" Well, in expediting, running on the "down low" means running unlettered. It's got nothing to do with regulations or requirements or trying to subvert them. Note that the comment from Lawrence stated both vans and straight trucks who run on the "down low". Plenty of straight trucks, with DOT numbers on the door and everything, are running on the "down low" nevertheless.
 
W

whistler

Active Expediter
xiggi said:
Even for the common multi carrier group most of us are aware of there are solutions if they really wanted. They could form a group for this instance call it PRIDE -
Proud Reliable Independently Dispatched Expediters.

Make decals with that name and each carrier could have a small logo say four inche's or something they could add to the bigger decal. This type of idea takes away the argument of not flying permanent lettering because one runs for multiple carriers. That group knows and even recommends the other carriers to their drivers as far as i understand.


Sent from my Fisher Price ABC123 via EO Forums
Click to expand...

There are one or two carriers who do not want any sign on a van whatsoever due to the nature of what they carry, and as far as running unmarked goes, What is unprofessional about it? An unmarked van is an unmarked van. End of story.
 
xiggi

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Brisco said:
What if they aren't running on the "down low"? Remember.....as many point out....Cargo Vans under 10K are not classified as CMV's under FMSCA R&R's.....so if it's not a CMV after all....No Need for markings at all. IMO......the marking of a CV under 10K would be up to the Carrier itself as to whether they want their Name being publicized out there or not.

Case in Point........some 20 Plus years ago when I first gave Hot Shot "Courier" work a try, a few of the companies here in the DFW area required their Contractors to place Magnetic Signs on their Vehicles. (their S-10s, Rangers, CVs, Wagons, Etc) Over time....that requirement just started going towards the way side. As one Courier Company owner explained as to why he quit putting Magnetic Signs on the Contractors Vehicles........"Why let your Competition KNOW who your Customers are??" In other words......if the Guy had a Huge Contract with a Customer that requested 5-10 delivery vehicles sitting at his Dock every morning at 8am to do their daily deliveries, w
hy would he wanSalesman from a Competing Courier Co see this to only go into said Customer to try to undercut him?

I know this wouldn't exactly apply to the Expedite Industry in General......but it is the same concept. (Courier Work - Localized within a City / Expedite - OTR City to City) There may be certain reasons why "Legit" on the up and up Expedite Carriers are not requiring their Contractors to mark their vehicles.
Click to expand...

Your ignoring the main theme of the thread
professionalism. I worked in the courier industry for many years from driver to operations manager and trust me we knew who had what customers signs or not.
 
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