Why Is There No Outrage About This Police Shooting?

[Pilgrim]

Since the nation is on the subject about innocent black kids being shot for no reason, why aren't Al & Jessie in Cleveland raising h*ll about this? Here is an actual case of an innocent 12-year old kid being shot and killed by a stupid rookie cop, while a community in St. Louis is being destroyed due to the shooting of an adult criminal who committed a robbery and assaulted a police officer?

12-year-old boy shot by Cleveland police has died | cleveland.com

...Deputy Chief of Field Operations Ed Tomba described the incident as 'very, very tragic', saying that the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically.'When an officer gives a command, we expect it to be followed,' Mr Tomba said. 'The way it looks like right now, it wasn't followed, but we're going to continue our investigation.'

Read more: Boy, 12, carrying a BB gun shot TWICE by Cleveland cop despite witness telling 911 dispatcher the weapon was 'probably fake' | Daily Mail Online
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Several articles relate the same facts of this incident, but none of them mention the race (or name, or address) of the officer who shot and killed the 12-year old boy. Would anyone care to guess...Buhler...anyone??
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[Turtle]

Hard to know for sure, but I'd say the reason there's no outrage over this is similar to the reason that the typical people who normally go batcrap crazy over beheadings were silent over the beheading in Philly last month - it doesn't really further their own agenda.

 

[cheri1122]

The officer is Timothy Loehman, a rookie.
Maybe people aren't as outraged over this killing because the gun appeared real [the orange tip had been removed], and the caller's comments about "probably fake" were not relayed to the responding officers.
Still, the vid showing the shooting just 2 seconds after the cops arrived is very disturbing. It's hard to blame the cop, when he had to make an instant decision.
Blaming the parents who let the kid take the altered gun out, or didn't explain the danger to him, [and Cudell Rec Center is definitely in the 'hood'] is more reasonable, IMO.

 

[RoadTime]

the vid showing the shooting just 2 seconds after the cops arrived is very disturbing. It's hard to blame the cop, when he had to make an instant decision..

"The police said the officer yelled at Tamir three times to show his hands, but the boy instead reached to his waistband for the object, which turned out to be a fake gun."---3 times in 2 seconds? I wonder if the kid even understood what he said. My gut tells me the kid was just trying to show them it was a fake, or thought that is what they said. Two seconds is not a lot of time to process anything.

I don't know anything about police procedure, but common sense tells me I would not pull right up to someone who I believed to be pointing a gun at people and expect a good outcome. Just my thoughts.

 

[Slo-Ride]

It was in the news this morning. Again I heard reporter says non lethal pellet gun. No such thing as a non lethal pellet gun.
If this is the case there is no reason for outrage. Kid drew down on the cops..Until I hear different,,End of story. Sad story but none the less the end of story.

 

[Turtle]

The veteran cop was driving, and pulled up right next to the kid, something he wouldn't do if he thought there was any imminent danger. Before he could even put it park and get out, the rookie cop had already shot. I won't go as far as to say I think it was premeditated, but there is no way that rookie cop was able to arrive on the scene, fully or accurately assess the situation, open the door, get out, draw his weapon and fire, all within 2 seconds.

The caller described the kid twice as a "guy," and the dispatcher initially used the same word and saying he was sitting on a swing pointing a gun at people. Later in the full description she said "in the park by the youth center" was a "black male" who "keeps pulling a gun out of his pants and pointing it at people."

Old folks aren't as likely to be waving around a handgun at people, and the suspect was never described as a kid or a youth, so when the only information you have is a guy, a black male, threatening people with a handgun next to the youth center, one possible and certainly logical mental picture of the situation is... you've got an adult black male in his late teens or early 20s, who is dangerous because, well duh, he's a black male, threatening people with a gun, where he could start shooting people any second. The rookie had already made up his mind, taking no chances, the instant he saw a gun he was gonna fire. Even seconds after the shooting, the officers thought they'd shot a black male adult. "Shots fired. Male down. Black male. Maybe 20."

It's probably a justifiable shooting, but because it happened sooo fast, the perception of trigger-happy white cop kills 12-yeay old black kid is a tough one to overcome in the public court. I think the dispatcher shares significant blame for this tragedy for failing to relay the "probably fake" information, which the caller stated at least twice. That was a very important context element that was left out.

 

[scottm4211]

The whole notion of cops rolling right up next to him and shooting him dead within seconds should be horrifying. Not a society I wish to be part of. Yet almost daily you can watch clips of 20 cop cars following a car down some freeway without doing anything.
I thought cars and guns could both be weapons? I read elsewhere that any kid today would be wise not to carry so much as a super soaker in public. Probably wise.

 

[Turtle]

The whole notion of cops rolling right up next to him and shooting him dead within seconds should be horrifying. Not a society I wish to be part of. Yet almost daily you can watch clips of 20 cop cars following a car down some freeway without doing anything.

It is horrifying. If it was an active shooter that's one thing, but even if it was a real adult black male with a real gun, he still hadn't done anything that he deserved to be killed for.

I thought cars and guns could both be weapons?

They can be. And just as there's no such thing as a non lethal Airsoft pistol that fires plastic pellets, there's also no such thing as a non lethal #2 pencil, or, apparently, a non lethal white cop.

 

[RLENT]

Several articles relate the same facts of this incident, but none of them mention the race (or name, or address) of the officer who shot and killed the 12-year old boy. Would anyone care to guess...Buhler...anyone??

Careful there Bub ... I think your "Pulaski" might be showing a little ...

 

[cheri1122]

I'm still thinking much of the blame belongs to the parents. How could they NOT teach their child the danger of waving a gun [even a toy] around in public these days? And did they know the telltale orange tip had been removed?
They're complaining about the officer's behavior, why is no one questioning theirs? Lord knows, people do when it's not relevant, [or unknown], but this is a case where the question begs to be asked.

 

[Turtle]

And, of course, 12-year olds are always going to faithfully abide by what they are taught by their parents.

It's a $20 toy pellet gun. He could have gotten it anywhere, including finding it in the park near the Youth Center.

The kid was shot 1.5-2.0 seconds after the cop car stopped. It's hard to blame the kid for that, so who can we blame other than Cleveland's Finest, who are having a hard time of late, what with them already being investigated by the U.S. Department of Justice for excessive and unreasonable deadly force? I know! The parents! Read the comments.

 

[mrgoodtude]

And, of course, 12-year olds are always going to faithfully abide by what they are taught by their parents.

It's a $20 toy pellet gun. He could have gotten it anywhere, including finding it in the park near the Youth Center.

The kid was shot 1.5-2.0 seconds after the cop car stopped. It's hard to blame the kid for that, so who can we blame other than Cleveland's Finest, who are having a hard time of late, what with them already being investigated by the U.S. Department of Justice for excessive and unreasonable deadly force? I know! The parents! Read the comments.

And the cop should have known this? This cop is but a human. He is not Cleveland. Good points on your end cept for the humanity of it all. An argument could be made for the training but not for the person.

 

[Turtle]

And the cop should have known this? This cop is but a human. He is not Cleveland. Good points on your end cept for the humanity of it all. An argument could be made for the training but not for the person.

I think I laid out pretty well in Post #6 the likely scenario of what the cop knew, which was what his dispatcher had told him. Still, even if the situation was exactly what he thought it was, namely, a 20-year old black male pointing a gun at people, the 20-year old black male still hadn't done anything to deserve an instant death sentence.

 

[mrgoodtude]

I think I laid out pretty well in Post #6 the likely scenario of what the cop knew, which was what his dispatcher had told him. Still, even if the situation was exactly what he thought it was, namely, a 20-year old black male pointing a gun at people, the 20-year old black male still hadn't done anything to deserve an instant death sentence.

Yes sir, you did state your case eloquently in post #6, cept for the part where as I as a Cop tell you to drop your gun. I could drop anything in one second if my life depended on it 12 or 20. Simply err on the side of caution. Back in the day we never talked back to our teachers, there were consequences to the tune of three licks with the paddle. Not to get off topic but I am sick and tired of making excuses for bad behavior. I grew up in the projects, and yes I got over it. This guy in MO ***** slapped a asian for some cigarillos before the whole Ferguson thingy got catawompas. A 12 year old brandished what looked to be a semi auto in Ohio, and tho sad, I can't blame a 38k a year cop for protecting and serving. Sorry not sorry. You are so friggin awesome, love your brain but I can't wrap my mind around this.

 

[LDB]

I wonder how long it takes to say "hands up" or "don't move" of "freeze" or similar and for the person so commanded to make a grabbing motion toward a gun in their waistband?

 

[Turtle]

I wonder how long it takes to say "hands up" or "don't move" of "freeze" or similar and for the person so commanded to make a grabbing motion toward a gun in their waistband?

Well, first, if the cop had told the kid to drop the gun as Tude suggests, that would certainly explain why the kid reached for the gun in his waistband to get it so he could drop it. But that's not what happened.

According to the police, sometime during the infamous 1½ to 2 seconds of pulling up in his cruiser, the cop exited the vehicle and ordered the youngster three times to put up his hands. So it couldn't have taken very long.

One can't help but wonder just how intelligible what must have been a rather rapid fire, "Handzuphandzuphandzup!" to a startled kid wearing a hat with earflaps. One has to wonder if the vehicle door was even yet open when the "Handzuphandzuphandzup!" was uttered.

Watching the video, it looks almost as if the reason the door opened and the cop got out of the vehicle was specifically and solely so he could draw his weapon and fire.

I don't know if they practice at the Academy pulling to a stop, getting out as fast as you can, and then firing your gun as fast as you can, but if they do this guy had to be at the top of his class.

 

[cheri1122]

I know 12 year olds often disregard parental teaching, [know it from personal experience on both ends], but when it's really, truly, life threateningly serious, parents need to make sure their kids understand that.
I used to take fitness classes at Cudell Rec Center, but it's a whole different neighborhood these days. I'd be willing to bet there are 12 year olds there with real guns - and in that scenario, LEOs don't take chances.
Maybe it will prompt some parents to explain to their kids that when you fight the law, the law wins.
And yes, the dispatcher should have included the "probably fake" comment, because it creates a different scenario than what the rookie probably envisioned.

 

[davekc]

All of this including racial stops you name it is the clear reason every cop should have a camera on them. Not a cure all, but I have to think it would clear a lot of this stuff up. In many cases, cops act amazingly different when the camera is rolling.

 

[Turtle]

All of this including racial stops you name it is the clear reason every cop should have a camera on them. Not a cure all, but I have to think it would clear a lot of this stuff up. In many cases, cops act amazingly different when the camera is rolling.

We've all seen the rather hilarious videos of traffic stops and border checkpoints where the cops' actions and attitudes change dramatically the instant they find out they're being recorded.

But the reverse is also true. And in some police jurisdictions there have been as many as 80% fewer (baseless) police brutality claims made.

I think cameras are a win/win all around. "Trust but verify" comes to mind for some reason.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I wonder how long it takes to say "hands up" or "don't move" of "freeze" or similar and for the person so commanded to make a grabbing motion toward a gun in their waistband?

I wonder how fast it takes a rookie cop to jump and tackle a 12 yr old boy, 10' away from him, before he pulled his gun out of his waistband. Now, that rookie, who took his overbearing training very seriously, will either be a mess for the rest of his life, or end up being a cold and heartless man. Neither one, IMO, makes a good cop.