Why Is The UAW Pension's In Trouble???

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I can tell you why, it is called trust. The workers think that they can trust thier union and company - which is not the case.

Unlike my dad's union, many unions let the company control the pension and decide how some of the invesements are made. The companies have in the past raided the pension funds without any hesitation - I point to Denny feel sorry for me McClain and his partner who wiped out the entire pension fund and screwed a lot of hard working people. He andhis partner should have gotten life behind bars and all of his assets (including the ones he transfered to others) stripped from both of them.

My dad's union has control over the pension 100%, no company involvment and this should be the way it is will all of them.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
From the website in the link:

Is your pension up to specs?
Today, auto pension plans are not in the best of shape. The American auto industry confronts a host of financial problems: Very high fixed costs (e.g., GM says its cost per hour for U.S. employees was $78.39 in 2003)

No wonder things are so messed up and the unions continually say more, more, more. There's something wrong with that picture.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Leo, that wage is entry level.

Some GM workers topped the $125 an hour rate with the benifits and pension.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Some GM workers topped the $125 an hour rate with the benifits and pension.

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In essentially a global economy, that is a frightening statistic,









Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

wahoofan

Expert Expediter
answer: bad management

Interesting article to read is from the "Investor's Business Daily" edition Aug. 3 2006. www.investors.com

Read article on page A14. title "Motor City Wreckage"
Car Industry: Domestic market share for Detroit's Big Three automakers hit an all-time low in July. This could have been avoided, but years ago industry executives traded short-term gain for long-term problems.

2005 GM spent roughly $5.5 billion on employee health care, nearly half of what the Big Three spent on health care overall. That translates into $1500 for each vehicle GM makes. Another $700 per car is spent on pensions.
By comparison, Toyota spends less than a tenth of what GM spends on health care and a mere $100 in pension cost for every car.

nuff said:'( :-( x( :(
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
>answer: bad management
>
>Interesting article to read is from the "Investor's Business
>Daily" edition Aug. 3 2006. www.investors.com
>
>Read article on page A14. title "Motor City Wreckage"
>Car Industry: Domestic market share for Detroit's Big Three
>automakers hit an all-time low in July. This could have
>been avoided, but years ago industry executives traded
>short-term gain for long-term problems.
>
>2005 GM spent roughly $5.5 billion on employee health care,
>nearly half of what the Big Three spent on health care
>overall. That translates into $1500 for each vehicle GM
>makes. Another $700 per car is spent on pensions.
>By comparison, Toyota spends less than a tenth of what GM
>spends on health care and a mere $100 in pension cost for
>every car.

OK I agree with this premise that healthcare has been a mitigating factor in the thier ablility to properly manager their cost but truthfully the average GM autoworker has far more benefits in comparison to Toyota and a further reaching effect on direct cost of healthcare within the Detroit auto world is the culture of the "I deserve" mentality.

I mean that the workers at many of these Japanese plants are seem somewhat healthier and the companies seem to take more of an interest in cost reduction through programs that promote health care. I have never seen anything like this in any detroit area plant. I have relitives who work for a major Japanese suppier and yes they do their excersizes and have nutrition classes as part of their employment so surprise that they have less doctor office visits than their counterpart hence less cost to the company. I may be wrong but growing up with autoworkers and having my wife work in admitting at one of the hospitals here just makes it look like GM and Ford need to look at the manufacturing end of things first because they will never change the attitude or the culture of their workers. She pointed out that many of the patients were autoworkers who came in for hangovers, problems due to obesity and other preventive things. She always had a hard time with the attitude that some of these parents had by bringing thier kids in to the hospital instead of waiting for an appointment with their doctor so they can be treated for a cold or flu.

But I have to also say that the Governor and Stabenow is now trying to pull about helping GM and Ford with thier healthcare cost through our tax money is a bunch of c**p. Of course D-C is in on this when they pay less in healthcare cost than in Germany and truly have no issues but want to tag along to get something out of it while they are too moving their plants to Canada and Mexico.

Speaking of manufacuting end, I went to a Japanese plant that build componets for all the auto companies and they hardly have anyone working at the plant. Machinist and repairmen, die setters, a few material handlers and just a few QC workers. Most of the work is automated - including the assembly of the parts. What I found strikingly incredible is that they can in one to two hours change an entire line from one part to another without any problems. The other important thing is that the life cycle of every machine in the plant (it was a rather big plant) was only 3 years - where Chrysler had presses from the 1950s in one plant I worked at. I only tell you this because this was in 1997 and was old technology for the Japanese back then and the really sad thing is Ford is just moving to this flexible manufacuturing now. If they can replace workers with machines, maybe GM/Ford need to take a look at that now.
 

bryan

Veteran Expediter
Hi

Yep those machines last a long time.Of coures they don't pay taxes or buy cars.Back in the 80's people fought against losing their jobs to the machines.Now we are suppose to welcome them with open arms.Go on welfare and let the goverment tell us what we can and can't do_Our money is the only thing that keeps the goverment in check.Your vote means nothing.But stop spending money and see how fast the goverment starts changing their tune.Oh and if your expecting the corporate world to do what is best for everybody.It's going to be awhile.

Unions are nesessary evils.Yes they go over board on employee rights and benefits.But without them the corporate world and the goverment would control this country as if we were communist.It is part of the checks and balances that made this country the only super power.I've noticed since the fall of the Soviet Union that our goverment is no longer user freindly.They had to put on a good face to make it look good and now they can quit the masquerade.Its what they want and we had just better keep our mouths shut and like it.So if the unions ---- off the corporate world, which upsets the goverment then good for them.Kind of like OOIDA protesting the new hours of service.Checks and balances.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I guess your right; Machines don’t pay taxes or buy cars. But I can see where the need to pull away from the ‘isolated unionized its mine - gimme’ attitude is needed for the survival of the two remaining auto companies in this country.

Yes machines don’t pay taxes and buy cars but the people who support those machines do, as does the suppliers of the auto companies who build the cars and machines for that matter. The thing that many seem to missed is a very simple thing; it is better to have businesses within our borders to produce products than to have them moved overseas. If it takes using an automated flexible manufacturing, assembly or production line to keep the company here, that’s ok – it still provides a lot of revenue in spin off’s like maintenance and suppliers than it would having it in Mexico or China.

Unions are sometimes a bad thing; the UAW in my opinion has outlived its usefulness when it became more complacent in the 1980s. I am sick of people (like my relatives) who complain about the cost of things when they get their vehicle discounts and pay $98 a month for their lease or have to now pay for their prescription, even $5. Other unions are ok but without them it would be a lot worst for the workers. I went to Ask Dr. Z and asked why do all the companies in the Detroit area advertise to their workers first and the consumers second – not all the people in the area work for an automotive company. And I said that if the autoworkers are so dumb not to realize that they get a company discount, just maybe they need to be fired because their work must be of less quality than my dog who would know better. I never got a reply.

Checks and Balances system we have is not the unions doing nor the ACLU doing or the corporations doing for that matter – it is the system that was well thought out over 217 years ago and the people who vote make the entire system work. We have gotten away from the way it was intended to work with the courts now making laws but we still can make a difference. After looking into the political end of things to get more involved, I decided no one really cares to put an effort into voting, writing or getting involved, most of it is taken for granted and no one understands the real power they have. I don’t believe that any one organization will be able to do a thing for us, they don’t vote but they may mobilize people. Sometimes this is not enough when you think about it and it takes a great effort to get people off their a** to do something, even sign a petition. If you want to see what I am talking about look at things like Moveon.org and other Democratic far left off the wall organizations. See what their strategy has been to mobilize voters to vote the way they think – you will see the real power.
 
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