Weird things happen in Iowa

greg334

Veteran Expediter
This morning I'm reading about the endorsments for the candidates and how some are trying to 'sway' Bachmann out of the race so Santorum can have more support. While I'm reading the article, an interesting pullquote popped up - Santorum would vote for Paul if he wins the GOP nomination. I understand his point, he is going to go for the ABO candidate but it is odd that he would say something after garnering support from the kook fringe religious right and having more religious righter asking Bachmann to leave the stage. Maybe those in the religious right are fuming after that comment and we will see his retraction sometime in the next few days.

Now this comes on the heels of learning that Ron Paul has a new supporter - Bachmanns Iowa campaign manager. I know that's old news but maybe this is the shape of things to come?
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
The only thing Iowa accomplishes is deciding who gets funding to continue in the race. I never have understood all the hoopla around Iowa.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The only thing Iowa accomplishes is deciding who gets funding to continue in the race. I never have understood all the hoopla around Iowa.

All the hoopla is SOP: the media tells us what we're interested in. :rolleyes:
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The only thing Iowa accomplishes is deciding who gets funding to continue in the race.
Actually, I think there might some delegates at stake there as well .... I don't know, but that may come into play at some point in the future ... maybe in the convention ....:rolleyes:

I never have understood all the hoopla around Iowa.
Sure - afterall, according to the establishment and the MSM, it "doesn't really matter", right ? :rolleyes:
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Actually, I think there might some delegates at stake there as well .... I don't know, but that may come into play at some point in the future ... maybe in the convention ....:rolleyes:


Sure - afterall, according to the establishment and the MSM, it "doesn't really matter", right ? :rolleyes:

Well I was born in Iowa and after moving from there lived 14 miles away. Our main paper was the Des Moines register, Many friends were from there, I understand much more about Iowa than what the MSM tells people. The Iowa delegates make up about 1 percent of the nations total, not a big number.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
According to the establishment and the MSM, it matters a great deal. The establishment tries to raise the national importance of the state's caucuses, which have their own set of really bizarre problems, especially on the Democratic side, and the MSM feeds off it because it gives them something to report. But in reality, on a national level, Iowa means very little, other than as a first-weeding out of the also-rans, since as Xiggi noted, only about one percent of the nation's delegates are chosen by the Iowa State Convention. It's an early indication of who might win nationally, but it's hardly a lock. The only lock, it seemingly appears, is whoever wins South Carolina wins the nomination, as no one who has lost SC has ever won it.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Well I was born in Iowa and after moving from there lived 14 miles away. Our main paper was the Des Moines register, Many friends were from there, I understand much more about Iowa than what the MSM tells people. The Iowa delegates make up about 1 percent of the nations total, not a big number.
And what does any of that have to do with what I just said ?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
And what does any of that have to do with what I just said ?
Clearly, it provides context of his original comment, where the "on a national level" was understood, even though you didn't understand it, as in "The only thing Iowa accomplishes [on a national level] is deciding who gets funding to continue in the race."

He was talking in the context of a national scale, and you answered him in the context of a local (state) scale. His followup comment cleared that right up, or should have. No need to slice and dice the imprecise language of casual conversation. Diminishing (properly) the importance of Iowa isn't to diminish the importance of Ron Paul, and should not be construed as such, any more than the importance of Ron Paul should elevate Iowa's importance beyond that of the reality of what it actually is. Because, on a national scale, the only thing Iowa really and truly accomplishes is who gets more funding to continue the race. Iowa's delegates getting picked has little to do with that.

Iowa's delegates and convention is, in the scope of the big picture, virtually irrelevant. Hence, the failure to understand the orchestrated hoopla over the state's Caucuses beyond that of what has already been stated. :D
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Kind of funny J. Thune of SD comments on his endorsement of Romney..

Mr. Thune said he made his decision because Mr. Romney had shown that he was the Republican candidate best equipped to go “toe-to-toe” with President Obama in the general election. Mr. Thune joked that he wasn’t sure that endorsements from members of Congress were crucial to winning elections, particularly when the approval ratings of the House and Senate are so paltry.

Thune Endorses Romney - NYTimes.com
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The Talking Heads said last night that a record turnout - 120,000 caucus goers - would amount to 4% of the registered voters in Iowa. Independents and Democrats can cross over to vote, which will help Ron Paul. But as previously stated, that a very small sampling of the Iowa voters and may not be statistically accurate in representing how the IA vote will be in the general election. Of the past nine GOP winners (3 of which ran unopposed), six ended up winning the party's nomination for POTUS.
Iowa caucuses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The media makes a big deal out of these caucuses, so the winner gets a lot of free publicity and image enhancement. This could apply to an upstart like Santorum that might make a surprise 3d place finish to gain some momentum that otherwise wouldn't be there. But indeed - South Carolina is the one to watch because the picture has become much more focused by the time that vote is taken.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Republican candidate best equipped to go “toe-to-toe” with President Obama in the general election.

Why does this seem to be ... well something sounds really wrong with it when you realize Romney is a liberal as much as Obama is.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
While I'm reading the article, an interesting pullquote popped up - Santorum would vote for Paul if he wins the GOP nomination. I understand his point, he is going to go for the ABO candidate but it is odd that he would say something after garnering support from the kook fringe religious right and having more religious righter asking Bachmann to leave the stage. Maybe those in the religious right are fuming after that comment and we will see his retraction sometime in the next few days.
If I had to guess probably not - it's an established orthodoxy (even if it's wrong and utterly misguided) to support the party's nominee. Indeed, if one does not, one is considered a heretic, an apostate.

If he retracts, it would be foolish for a lot of different reasons.

OTOH, one should never underestimate Dr. Paul's practical and principled position on foreign policy (and particularly Israel) to ignite the self-righteous fervor among the kooks.

Now this comes on the heels of learning that Ron Paul has a new supporter - Bachmanns Iowa campaign manager. I know that's old news but maybe this is the shape of things to come?
Could be .... :D

As folks figure out what they are actually up against, it may cause some to forego their "groupthink" on adhering to the present misguided (and insane) failed foreign policy orthodoxy that they are desperately clinging to, and reconsider what are actually the best chances/odds are for prevailing against President Obama.

In a wide field (according to polling) Dr. Paul actually garners the most support out of any candidate for those that consider themselves evangelicals.

Now, it's possible that when the field narrows that our own American functional-equivalent of the Taliban, will lay down the sticks that they are incessantly beating the drums of war with - and actually espouse and truly practice the philosophy of the One that they claim to follow - and make at least some minor attempt to act in a manner that demonstrates they at least don't hate their fellow man, even if they are, at the moment, incapable of actually loving him.

My own bet is that there will be many that are, at present, simply incapable of foregoing their own bloodlust and desire for vengeance, instead, giving into the constant and continual state of terror that they allowed themselves to be goaded into and are apparently willingly chosing to live in, and will continue to refuse to look at the reality of our foreign policy and the practical (and predictable) consequences .....

Some folks are really looking however - even among those who are for the more extreme of the candidates (as evidenced by Bachmann's Iowa Co-chair's change yesterday)

No where is the above more evident however, than in the media, particularly on the liberal/left/progressive side of the political spectrum. Some examples of that are Cenk Unger (of "The Young Turks" on Current TV), Ed Schulz (The ED Show on MSNBC), and Rachel Maddow (The Rachel Maddow Show), Glen Greenwald (writes for Salon) and a number of others. These folks, who are often not in total agreement with Dr. Paul's philosophy, nevertheless see a potential for alliance, due to mutual interests.

A particularly good example of how this is beginning to be viewed is evidenced by what happened on The ED show yesterday - and shows (partially) what the other candidates are up against (but there is more to it than even what is shown here :)):

Ed Attends Ron Paul Campaign Event In Iowa

Of course, those who have a never-ending love affair with war (both on the left and the right), will immediately reject the above folks as potential allies in any way whatsoever - due to differences of political ideology, and failing to see any possibility of common cause .... due to their inculcation into the "groupthink" of endless war.

This goes back to something that greg has (very wisely, IMO) commented on many, many times - our failure, as a nation, to come together for our own mutual self-interests and survival.

This is a fundamental philosophical difference between Dr. Paul and all of the other candidates (including Obama) - he is seeking to unite us as a nation - rather than divide us.

As far further evidence of what is there in terms of organization, the following article gives a hint at what is going on around the nation:

'Stealth' campaign promotes Ron Paul in Florida
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Republican candidate best equipped to go “toe-to-toe” with President Obama in the general election.

Why does this seem to be ... well something sounds really wrong with it when you realize Romney is a liberal as much as Obama is.

This is where Rlents quote fits perfectly. Obama-lite.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
According to the establishment and the MSM, it matters a great deal.
Only if their candidates wins them.

In fact, if one has been watching the MSM over the last week or two, the resounding message has clearly been (from both the MSM and GOP establishment) that "if Ron Paul wins, then Iowa doesn't matter ....."

The establishment tries to raise the national importance of the state's caucuses, which have their own set of really bizarre problems, especially on the Democratic side, and the MSM feeds off it because it gives them something to report.
Only when it fits the agenda .... ;)

But in reality, on a national level, Iowa means very little, other than as a first-weeding out of the also-rans, since as Xiggi noted, only about one percent of the nation's delegates are chosen by the Iowa State Convention.
It may not mean much ..... or it very well may mean a great deal .....

However, regardless of that, the following is not necessarily true:

"The only thing Iowa accomplishes is deciding who gets funding to continue in the race."

It's an early indication of who might win nationally, but it's hardly a lock.
Certainly true - no argument from this quarter on that.

The only lock, it seemingly appears, is whoever wins South Carolina wins the nomination, as no one who has lost SC has ever won it.
True enough - but keep in mind that record is only based 8 data points (one of which had Reagan running unopposed)

Also factor in the fact that South Carolina is an open primary state - voters may vote in either primary (but not both), for the candidate of their choice, irrespective of which party they belong to ;)

And .... Obama is running unopposed :eek:

:D
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Mutual interests, common cause:

""Libertarians like Ron Paul are on our side on civil liberties. They're on our side against the military-industrial complex. They're on our side against Wall Street. They're on our side for investor rights. That's a foundational convergence," he exhorts. "It's not just itty-bitty stuff." - Ralph Nader

Forging an agenda of unity of common purpose, not exploiting the possible divisions of special interest, is not only the way forward .... but also the way out.
 
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AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Of course, those who have a never-ending love affair with war (both on the left and the right), will immediately reject the above folks as potential allies in any way whatsoever - due to differences of political ideology, and failing to see any possibility of common cause .... due to their inculcation into the "groupthink" of endless war.

Well, I'm one of them. As much as I see the need for the radical left's votes, I'm having trouble imagining them as allies. It's the same issue as what would happen if society collapses and we have to put it back together; how do you work with someone who believes some have a right to Other People's Money, or don't believe in limited government with only their enumerated powers, or don't respect the rights protected by the Bill of Rights? I don't know how to work with someone like that. They're my enemy, not my ally.

Btw, when I say that, it's not out of love for war, just human rights and the Bill thereof.


--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
 
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AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Why thank you :D .... although, in all honesty, I must admit that I wasn't the original source of it .....


False choices is how those arranging the board, intend those playing, to play the game .... ;)

Yes, it was mine, here, though I got it elsewhere.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Dave,
The issue isn't that romney is Obama lite but he is for the most part Obama under a different mascot.

I do not believe for one second that he has any values that the country need in the president and will in effect be the same as Obama but on the other side of the isle.

Maybe it is his political background or it is the issue of being governor of a very liberal state or maybe it is his history of being from a liberal governor's son - I don't know what it is - but I do know that he would continue some of the same policies, especially those supporting intervention in the middle east and Iran beside continuing the ruinous economic policies of not Obama but of the past four presidents.

The root of the problem is that the republican party is counting on Romney to be the candidate and expect to win with him. he party has lost touch as most of their supporters claim that Obama has and their reality is to continue their doctrine at all cost. This is one reason I think that Palin should be running the party, she is hated enough to make those marginal party members run to the dems and show us who are the left leaning republicans.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The root of the problem is that the republican party is counting on Romney to be the candidate and expect to win with him. he party has lost touch as most of their supporters claim that Obama has and their reality is to continue their doctrine at all cost.
More on this aspect shortly (whole new thread) :D

This is one reason I think that Palin should be running the party, she is hated enough to make those marginal party members run to the dems and show us who are the left leaning republicans.
LOL ..... interesting thought :eek:
 
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